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  #1601  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2011, 12:44 AM
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There's no reason to start panicking about goaltending right now. Sure, the third Pittsburgh goal was kinda soft, but Luongo's never been stellar at the start of the season. He certainly wasn't last year, but then he finished the regular season in the top 3 of every major statistical category. And there were a lot of problems with the Canucks last night beyond goaltending; blaming the loss squarely on Luongo is silly.

It would suck if Gillis traded away Schneider and he ended up being fantastic elsewhere, but keep in mind that he is just as likely to flop when given the starter role. There's no point in running that risk when you have a goalie that has already proven himself to be an elite starter in the NHL.

Has it really been so long since the "goalie graveyard" days that Canucks fans have forgotten what bad goaltending really looks like?
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  #1602  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2011, 8:01 AM
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So how about our goalies...
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  #1603  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2012, 9:45 AM
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Canucks: The best team and the best-looking fans too:

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  #1604  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2012, 11:55 PM
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Hodgson traded to Buffalo for Zach Kassian.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=388957

BAD trade in my opinion. Cody's going to be a great centerman in the league for many years to come. Kassian? Don't know what kind of player he'll be, but not a first liner, for sure (hands are decent, but not good enough).
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  #1605  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Vancity View Post
Hodgson traded to Buffalo for Zach Kassian.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=388957

BAD trade in my opinion. Cody's going to be a great centerman in the league for many years to come. Kassian? Don't know what kind of player he'll be, but not a first liner, for sure (hands are decent, but not good enough).
For some reason I always thought Cody Hodgson was gonna be one of those Canucks-for-life players. Foolishly as it turns out.
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  #1606  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 12:39 AM
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Hodgson would be a great Canuck-for-life... if Kesler moved on to another team. There really wasn't room for both of them on one team. Similar players, similar roles, similar potential.

There has been much talk about landing a blockbuster player like Weber or Brown. The Canucks would have surely had to give up Kesler to land that kind of trade (plus more, maybe Kesler+Schneider).

I see the Hodgson trade as a major vote of confidence in Kesler. This tells me that the Canucks are committed to keeping him long-term. He will eventually be captain of the team after the Sedins retire.

Majorly sad to see Hodgson go, but Buffalo is a terrific opportunity for him. I believe that he is now Buffalo's 3rd leading scorer. He'll get huge minutes there, will own a line (maybe their top line), and probably quarterback their powerplay.

Meanwhile, in Kassian we got what might be a young Milan Lucic. Kassian had better numbers than Hodgson in the AHL, but unlike Hodgson his skills aren't redundant. The Canucks desperately need a Milan Lucic type of forward. They just found one in an unlikely place.
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  #1607  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 12:46 AM
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But his skills were not redundant; they were absolutely vital. How many important games did the Canucks win this season because of goals by Cody Hodgson when others were not scoring? The list is significant. How about that all-important game in Boston?

When you factor in ice-time, Cody Hodgson was likely the highest scoring player on the Canucks this season.

Last edited by Prometheus; Feb 28, 2012 at 1:08 AM.
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  #1608  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 1:09 AM
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Hodgson is more of a sure thing for Buffalo, while Kassian could turn out to be another Alek Stojonov. Could turn out to be a very bad trade.
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  #1609  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 1:34 AM
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But his skills were not redundant; they were absolutely vital. How many important games did the Canucks win this season because of goals by Cody Hodgson when others were not scoring? The list is significant. How about that all-important game in Boston?

When you factor in ice-time, Cody Hodgson was likely the highest scoring player on the Canucks this season.
Fourth-highest behind the Sedins and Burrows when icetime is accounted for.

In the context of all the trades made today, I think the Canucks are a more playoff-ready team than they were last season. Hodgson was producing, but he was also playing very sheltered minutes against weaker opposition, and his defensive game isn't quite ready yet. It's quite possible that this would have become a liability in the post-season. With the addition of a more defensive-minded centre in Pahlsson, AV is able to give Kesler and the Sedins some of the softer minutes that Hodgson was taking up, and that can only mean good things for their production.

Hodgson is a special talent with a bright future and honestly I believe Gillis should have recieved more for him, but overall I think today's moves make a lot of sense for Vancouver going into the playoffs this year. Pahlsson has already won a Cup playing a very similar role to what he'll do in Vancouver, and Gragnani could turn out to be an excellent match for Alex Edler, or at least a solid bottom-pairing player.
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  #1610  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 1:53 AM
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Fourth-highest behind the Sedins and Burrows when icetime is accounted for.
That is absolutely amazing. Just a 22 year old rookie, yet Hodgson is second only to the Twin Wonders and Burrows in points production per minute of ice time. Absolutely amazing.

Last edited by Prometheus; Feb 28, 2012 at 2:08 AM.
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  #1611  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 2:08 AM
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Which is absolutely amazing.
Again, though, he's playing much easier minutes. While the Sedin line is usually up against the other team's best players, Hodgson's line usually ended up starting against third or fourth lines and bottom defense pairs. His numbers are still quite good for a rookie, but they do need to be taken in context. And if getting those numbers from Hodgson means taking something away from the more established elite players on the team, it's not hard see why AV and MG would be skeptical about going into the playoffs with that arrangement.

Talented and promising, yes; "absolutely vital", not necessarily.
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  #1612  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 2:43 AM
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Again, though, he's playing much easier minutes. While the Sedin line is usually up against the other team's best players, Hodgson's line usually ended up starting against third or fourth lines and bottom defense pairs. His numbers are still quite good for a rookie, but they do need to be taken in context.
So, putting things in context, Hodgson is not producing significantly more points per minute of ice time than other centres/right wingers playing the same kind of "easy" minutes on other top teams?

And just to confirm, the team with the most goals still wins the game even if those goals were scored during "easy" minutes?

Hodgson scores goals and those goals have been the sine qua non of many important Canuck victories this season, including the game in Boston, a place where the Canucks were unable to win during last year's Stanley Cup Final.

That is the very definition of vital.
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  #1613  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 3:10 AM
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So, putting things in context, Hodgson is not producing significantly more points per minute of ice time than other centres/right wingers playing the same kind of "easy" minutes on other top teams?

And just to confirm, the team with the most goals still wins the game even if those goals were scored during "easy" minutes?

Hodgson scores goals and those goals have been the sine qua non of many important Canuck victories this season, including the game in Boston, a place where the Canucks were unable to win during last year's Stanley Cup Final.

That is the very definition of vital.
The problem is that those easy minutes are a zero-sum game. Yes, Hodgson scores goals. But Ryan Kesler does, too. So does Henrik Sedin (or at least he sets them up). In fact, both of those players are capable of scoring far more points than Hodgson currently is. Both of them have also seen their point totals drop somewhat from last season, and among the many possible reasons for this is the fact that they have to play tougher minutes to make up for the easier minutes given to Hodgson.

It's also important to avoid putting too much weight on Hodgson's performance in a single game this season. Yes, he played an excellent game against the Bruins. That doesn't mean that he would be able to repeat that performance against them, or against another team, under the very different circumstances of the Stanley Cup Finals. "Small sample size" is perhaps the single most important thing to avoid when evaluating a player or his worth to a team. Suppose that beautiful game-winning slapper goes an inch higher? Suddenly the narrative changes.
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  #1614  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 3:23 AM
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Accounting for ice time, Hodgson is also the #1 goal scorer on the Canucks when 5 on 4: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28

Last edited by Prometheus; Feb 28, 2012 at 3:39 AM.
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  #1615  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 3:40 AM
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Again, though, he's playing much easier minutes. While the Sedin line is usually up against the other team's best players, Hodgson's line usually ended up starting against third or fourth lines and bottom defense pairs.
On the flip side of that are the line mates Hodgson plays with. This trade really scares me as a Canucks fan. Hodgson, to me looks like a superstar in the making, although I'm pretty sure Mike Gillis and the rest of the organization are a better judge of talent than I am and they know what they're doing.

Just going on faith at this point.
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  #1616  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 4:08 AM
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Hodgson's 5-on-5 numbers are poor, not good. His overall point production is impressive only because he was quarterbacking the 2nd powerplay unit. As others said, "easy minutes" - in particular referring to the fact that he played the powerplay and was generally in control of the plays while on there. He didn't play the PK at all, and many other players outperformed him 5-on-5. He will be a great player in Buffalo, and I was a huge fan of his, but the Canucks didn't need him.
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  #1617  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 4:17 AM
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Accounting for ice time, Hodgson is also the #1 goal scorer on the Canucks when 5 on 4: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28
Yeah, the second PP unit is definitely where the loss of Hodgson will be felt the most. No argument there; it was great to have a third offensive centre who could run the second unit while Henrik and Kesler were loaded up on the first unit. But if improving the team at even strength means losing a handful of PP goals, I'm all for it. You know what they say: defense wins championships. The Bruins demonstrated that last season, winning the Cup despite having a powerplay that was ineffective to an unprecedented degree. Hodgson's powerplay production this season has been remarkable, but his play in his own end has been a liability at times. Sami Pahlsson should be an improvement here.

Re: logan5 on linemates: it's worth noting that the Canucks' wingers have been shuffled all over the place this season. Aside from Daniel Sedin, there isn't really much of a separation in quality between any of the wingers playing in the top 9, and as a result AV has used them interchangeably for the most part.
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  #1618  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 4:42 AM
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This is an absolutely crushing trade on every level. Hodgson brought outstanding playmaking, a ridiculous shot, and stunning ice vision to the game. In my opinion, he was a superior player to Ryan Kesler this season. Kesler's disappearing act, his sulking, and his diving -are- getting old. There was none of that from Cody.

Canucks fans should be rightly furious. The franchise has trade not only Cody's very good present, but also his incredible future. Hodgson is developing into the next NHL playmaker superstar - ala Trottier, Hawerchuk, Yzerman. There was even, dare I say it, a bit of Gretzky in his intelligent style of play.

The Canucks will regret this decision and we in Vancouver will all suffer for it.
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  #1619  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 6:41 AM
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Wow, you guys are hard on this deal... When you get you have to give. Will we miss coho's scoring? Probably. Did we need it? Yes. But we need toughness more. In Kassian we get 1 year younger, 30 pounds heavier, taller, tougher, one more year at half the cap hit. He played with Windsor in juniors and knows how to win there. he joins a proven team that can speed his development, we give up Sulzberger, who likely will never play regularly in the NHL, and get in return a decent d who will shine playing with elder, or in the bottom pairing. Coho, I'm sorry to say will flounder without a solid supporting cast. Sure he will get more minutes which his agent wants, but they aren't likely to be nearly as productive. Whoever started the points per minute/easy minutes discussion is silly. They are both good players, they took a bit of a risk, but that's what you need to do sometimes when it comes to making a cup run. The only thing I'm a bit concerned is how this affects the locker room. Kassian is a bit of a firecracker and this could be disruptive ESP. In the short term. I think this deal makes even more sense when combined with the other deals, ie Pahlsson.

Gilles is a good trader. Trust him. Have faith.

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  #1620  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2012, 7:14 AM
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What worries me about this trade is, when we get to the postseason, what happens when Kesler AND the twin's line aren't producing? or they're shut down? We don't have scoring after that. Kassian? Ugh. 21 year old, who hasn't played a ton in the NHL, is thrown into the fire. Is that wise? I heard on the team1040 today that both Kassian, and Pahlsson will be joining the team in Phoenix to play on Tuesday night. I'm going to record that game, because I want to see how Kassian plays, and what kind of hockey intelligence he'll demonstrate (or maybe lack thereof).

I'm not convinced that this is a good trade, both for present, and future. Sure, Kassian has size, strength, and has "decent" hands when it comes to scoring. My hope is that he becomes just as good a player that Hodgson has shown that he'll become. If that's the case, this trade is a win for Van. If not, it's a loss, for the Canucks, and a lopsided WIN for Buffalo.

This may be the worse trade that Gillis has done since he's inherited this team. Nearly all of the core players are players that the Burke/Nonis regime has drafted. Gillis' players haven't even made the squad on a full time basis yet, and the one that did, he traded away to the Sabres.

Under Burke's regime: (on current roster)
- D. Sedin, H. Sedin
- Edler
- Burrows
- Kesler
- Bieksa

Under Gilli's regime: (current roster)
- Booth
- Higgins
- Lappiere
- Hodgson (no longer with team)
- Bitz
- Rome (not quite sure if this was under Gillis or Burke)
- Ballard (bad trade)
- Gragnani
- Kassian

I'm not confident that this trade makes us a better team. But I guess we'll see in the next month or so. I'd hate to hear how Hodgson's ripping it up with Buffalo. That's just a stab in the heart every time we hear or see the highlights on TSN, Sportsnet, etc. Kassian better show he's worth Hodgson.
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