NHL Season - 2016/2017

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by logan5

Milan Lucic changes everything. Add an elite defenseman, or at least trade Eberle + for another top pairing guy (the Oilers easily have the assets to do it) and the Oilers are SC contenders. Maybe not this year but certainly next year or the year after.

With Puljujarvi probly in the line up right away, the oilers are now a big strong team.

I don't think there will be any more top-2 defenseman available this year so the Oilers will have to manage with what they have. I guess they could do something unexpected like try to offer sheet Trouba as Boston is rumoured to potentially be doing. It would cost them dearly though if the Jets don't match - 4-first round draft picks.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Mrs Sauga

And this is a big part of why Canadian teams suck in recent years. Terrible management. Edmonton got fleeced for Taylor Hall. Montreal got fleeced for Subban. Vancouver gives up a #1 goalie for a #2C at best. Ottawa got fleeced for Spezza and Heatley and Bishop. I can't remember the last time a Canadian team made a fair trade lol.

I concede that trading Big Ben Bishop was a huge mistake on our part, but Heatley and Spezza, despite their talents and their production for Ottawa the first few years, needed to be traded.

Heatley was complaining about his role and asked to be traded. For him, we got Michalek, who was a productive player, good leader and great example for a young Ottawa team. Once he was past his prime, we traded him for Dion Phaneuf, a much needed defensive defensemen.

Spezza got the captaincy after Alfie left because we knew he would complain if he didn't. But the guy was a lazy, immature jerk. Out for a back injury, yet was able to fight people in parking garages. For every point he made for Ottawa, there was a major f*** up on his part that caused a goal against us. For him, we got Nick Paul, who has potential.

Otherwise, we're not that bad when it comes to trades, and Ottawa is arguably one of the best teams when it comes to drafting. Case in point in recent years are Jean-Gabriel Pageau (96th overall 2011) and Mark Stone (178th overall 2010).

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

I don't think there will be any more top-2 defenseman available this year so the Oilers will have to manage with what they have.

I mean, it's not as if PK Subban and Shea Weber weren't swapped for each other this week or anything.

Top-2 D are always available for the right price.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Trevor3

I really think Montreal won that trade.

Subban is a real good player, but I've never understood what made him 'elite'. He's sloppy in his own end, loses his position frequently, and has to rely entirely on his foot speed to try and recover from mistakes (he's fast so it kinda works), but he also has a real choppy stride. I've never understood why people call him a great skater, yes he's agile and fast, but he's not smooth and nice to watch like Paul Coffey was. He scored only 6 goals in 68 games last season and has never put up more than 15, but he's damn good at moving the puck and his 40+ assists per year are evidence of that. He gets $9 million per year. I don't think he brings much to the table on the defensive side of the game and he can throw 55-60 points on the board each year. That's a lot of money for that level of production. That's about 0.75 points per game.

Shea Weber is as good as there is in his own end. If Montreal wants a guy to lock it down in front of Price, there isn't a much better choice. He's not the fastest and won't jump into or lead the rush like Subban did, but he's also not being paid to do that. He should put up 15-20 goals, somewhere in the neighbourhood of 50-55 points and take fewer penalties than Subban because he doesn't get caught running around his own zone. He can actually play defence. Age is getting a ton of airplay, people seem to forget that defencemen really do peak later. It's an experience position and a lot of defencemen are at their best between 30-34/35. Niedermayer won the Norris at 31 and the Conn Smythe at 34. Chris Pronger was still putting up numbers at 37 before he was done in by injury. There's no reason to think Montreal won't get a ton of mileage out of Weber. They'll get similar offensive production from Weber as Subban, better defensive zone play, fewer penalties, and he costs less against the cap. If he retires before age 40 the cap penalties are Nashville's problem not Montreal's.

That.

Both are pretty equally matched, with PK producing a little more offensively and Shea better in his own end. Considering Weber's more modest salary and lower penalty numbers and of course weighing in the locker room issues with PK, Montreal might end up with a better product on the ice.

That said, it is sad to see PK leave considering he was a fan favourite and the face of the franchise. He was also one of the players able to appreciate feed off the attention he got from fans and media. His incredible work in the community will be missed. Kudos to him for promising to keep his engagement of raising 10 million for the Children's Hospital.

In the case of Edmonton, I'm assuming (as I'm not familiar with Larsson) it was a bad deal value wise. The Oilers should have asked for Larsson and maybe a couple more players (or 2017 draft picks). One for one just seems wrong.

End of the day, it is what it is. We all get pissed off with bad moves (or perceived bad moves), but here in Canada we get over it pretty quickly and go back to supporting our teams.

Let's wait until October and see how it goes.

[Nicko999]

Originally Posted by MrOilers

Montreal fans will get over Subban the instant they see Weber manhandle the opposition's entire forward lines, plus doing everything that Subban did on the powerplay.

I think hockey fans in the East simply haven't seen Nashville play enough (why would they - LOL) to see how good Weber is. Yeah, you lost Subban, but you got Shea f***ing Weber. Screw the silver lining, that is platinum!

I have watched Shea Weber play and I can tell you PK Subban is much more of a difference maker than Weber. Karlsson and Keith are the only D-men I would put ahead of PK.

I am still in denial of this trade. Fire Bergevin and Therrien!!!

Just trade Price, Gallagher, Galchenyuk and Markov to Nashville so I can quit on the Habs for real! I swear if it wasn't for those 4 players, I would be done with this team where politics>hockey.

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by Nicko999

I have watched Shea Weber play and I can tell you PK Subban is much more of a difference maker than Weber. Karlsson and Keith are the only D-men I would put ahead of PK.

I am still in denial of this trade. Fire Bergevin and Therrien!!!

Just trade Price, Gallagher, Galchenyuk and Markov to Nashville so I can quit on the Habs for real! I swear if it wasn't for those 4 players, I would be done with this team where politics>hockey.

For Rinne, Forsberg, Ellis and Josi? I like it!

[speedog]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I concede that trading Big Ben Bishop was a huge mistake on our part, but Heatley and Spezza, despite their talents and their production for Ottawa the first few years, needed to be traded.

Heatley was complaining about his role and asked to be traded. For him, we got Michalek, who was a productive player, good leader and great example for a young Ottawa team. Once he was past his prime, we traded him for Dion Phaneuf, a much needed defensive defensemen.

Spezza got the captaincy after Alfie left because we knew he would complain if he didn't. But the guy was a lazy, immature jerk. Out for a back injury, yet was able to fight people in parking garages. For every point he made for Ottawa, there was a major f*** up on his part that caused a goal against us. For him, we got Nick Paul, who has potential.

Otherwise, we're not that bad when it comes to trades, and Ottawa is arguably one of the best teams when it comes to drafting. Case in point in recent years are Jean-Gabriel Pageau (96th overall 2011) and Mark Stone (178th overall 2010).

Your last statement is one that can be debated until the cows come home and even much later. Calgary's 2011 pick at 104th in the fourth round is turning out pretty well so far and even arguably better than either of those two. Determining which team has done best on later round trades is something that is not ever going to be all that very cut and dried.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by speedog

Your last statement is one that can be debated until the cows come home and even much later. Calgary's 2011 pick at 104th in the fourth round is turning out pretty well so far and even arguably better than either of those two. Determining which team has done best on later round trades is something that is not ever going to be all that very cut and dried.

Looking at Stone and Gaudreau, they are fairly evenly matched. But yes, Gaudreau currently has an edge.

Mark Stone NHL totals - GP: 178 G: 53 A: 80 PTS: 133 Points per game: .74
Gaudreau NHL totals - GP: 160 G: 55 A: 88 PTS: 143 Points per game: .89

Pageau isn't in the same category, but still very good for a 96th pick. He did lead the NHL in short handed goals last year with 7.

Now if we go way back to 1994, Ottawa's all time greatest late draft pick was Daniel Alfredsson (133rd overall).

GP: 1,246 G: 444 A: 713 PTS: 1,157 Points per game: .92

Post Media had a few articles on productivity of draft players per team over the last decade.



http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com...gs-graphic.png

In terms of draft position, Ottawa was 22nd and ranked 5th in games played and 11th in points.

Calgary 27th in draft position, 29th in games played and 28th in points.

Vancouver bottomed out with the 21st draft position but 30th in both games played and points.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Mrs Sauga

Ottawa got fleeced for Spezza and Heatley and Bishop. I can't remember the last time a Canadian team made a fair trade lol.

Winnipeg did alright on the Evander Kane trade - especially since there was enormous pressure to trade him, which greatly reduces their bargaining power.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Heatley was complaining about his role and asked to be traded. For him, we got Michalek, who was a productive player, good leader and great example for a young Ottawa team.

Heatley flat out demanded a trade was refusing to play. Bryan Murray, to his credit, managed to get a trade for Michalek (and Jordan Cheechoo - who was useless at that point), essentially getting $0.50 on the dollar for Heatley. In all fairness, his hands were tied and Heatley had blocked (what at the time seemed to be) a better trade to the Oilers for Dustin Penner. It's not fair to blame management for that trade outcome as they were in a no-win situation.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Once he was past his prime, we traded him for Dion Phaneuf, a much needed defensive defensemen.

Let me fix that for you

Once he was past his prime too frequently injured to be useful, we traded himtraded salary headaches with Toronto for Dion Phaneuf, a much needed defensive defensemen a pricey, yet usable second-pair defenseman.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Spezza got the captaincy after Alfie left because we knew he would complain if he didn't. But the guy was a lazy, immature jerk. Out for a back injury, yet was able to fight people in parking garages. For every point he made for Ottawa, there was a major f*** up on his part that caused a goal against us. For him, we got Nick Paul, who has potential.

This I don't get - Spezza was producing about a point-per-game as a centre, yet was constantly shit on by the fans and media of Ottawa. To relieve themselves of this 'distraction' Murray traded Spezza and prospect (Ludwig Karlsson) for Nick Paul, Alex Guptill, Alex Chiasson and a 2nd round pick (later flipped to the Devils, which they used on Canada WJHC goalie Mackenzie Blackwood). Chiasson was just traded out of town for a minor league depth defenseman after putting up only 40 points in 2 seasons in Ottawa. Nick Paul just finished his Draft+3 year and made a limited appearance in Ottawa's lineup this season. Guptill is no longer in the Sens organization having been traded to the Sabres in an exchange of minor league spare parts.

In the meantime, Spezza has put up 125pts in 2 seasons in Dallas.

All the Senators have to show for it is a guy who is running out of time to become an NHL player, and will likely not exceed a 3rd line role. Nice job

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Otherwise, we're not that bad when it comes to trades, and Ottawa is arguably one of the best teams when it comes to drafting. Case in point in recent years are Jean-Gabriel Pageau (96th overall 2011) and Mark Stone (178th overall 2010).

You can go into any team's draft history and pick out some late round hits. Even the Leafs have some - Leo Komarov (6th round, 180th 2006) or Carl Gunnarsson (7th round, 194th 2007). I don't think Ottawa is exceptional in that regard.

[Horus]

Radulov? For that money? Bergevin's really put his neck out on this season.

[Mister F]

Seeing some of the deals over the last week makes it painfully obvious why no Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup in over two decades. Does someone own incriminating photos of Peter Chiarelli or something? Yeesh.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Horus

Radulov? For that money? Bergevin's really put his neck out on this season.

It's almost as if they're banking on Radulov to make up for the offense they lost in trading PK for a defensive D in Weber.

Originally Posted by Mister F

Seeing some of the deals over the last week makes it painfully obvious why no Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup in over two decades. Does someone own incriminating photos of Peter Chiarelli or something? Yeesh.

The Oilers are far better today than they were this time two weeks ago.

IN: Lucic, Puljujarvi, Larsson
OUT: Hall

[The Chemist]

I honestly don't see the issue with the Radulov signing. The guy has been ripping it up in the KHL in recent years, so the money isn't totally outrageous. And the term is perfect to see if the problems he had the last time he played in the NHL are gone. If they are, and he continues his form, he gets an extension. If they're not, or he doesn't play well in the NHL, then he doesn't. What's the big deal?

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It's almost as if they're banking on Radulov to make up for the offense they lost in trading PK for a defensive D in Weber.


The Oilers are far better today than they were this time two weeks ago.

IN: Lucic, Puljujarvi, Larsson
OUT: Hall

If that's the case, it's in spite of the Hall deal, not because of it. They could have Lucic, Puljujarvi, and someone better than Larsson.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Mister F

If that's the case, it's in spite of the Hall deal, not because of it. They could have Lucic, Puljujarvi, and someone better than Larsson.

Like whom? Larsson's no slouch and improves the D corps.

[Coldrsx]

And is 23 and still developing...

[Calgarian]

Edmonton is definitely improved, no question.

I think the Flames have improved quite a bit too, looking forward to the season now...

[Steveston]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Like whom? Larsson's no slouch and improves the D corps.

That's faint praise.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Steveston

That's faint praise.

I'm still waiting to hear what the Oilers could have done to get someone for Hall that is better than Larsson.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'm still waiting to hear what the Oilers could have done to get someone for Hall that is better than Larsson.

They should have worked out a deal with MTL for Subban. That would have been a much better win-win for both sides.