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  #1021  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 6:44 PM
Darkoshvilli Darkoshvilli is offline
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We're at 10. An 18yo man was stabbed in the parking garage of a dumpy shopping center. I know the place really well.
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  #1022  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 7:01 PM
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Calgary seems to be a lot less violent in the last couple years, which is nice because we were knocking at the door a few years back as the murder capital of Canada.
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  #1023  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 11:26 PM
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Regarding the case from Timmins last week, the man who was accused of killing his son-in-law was found dead in his cell last night. OPP are investigating.

A 19-year-old girl charged with first degree murder on a northern Ontario reserve in 2009 has been handed a life sentence after pleading guilty to the lesser charge of second degree murder. She will not be eligible for parole until 2019, ten years after the murder took place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick View Post
What you have in Edmonton is pretty obviously an Edmonton problem. Don't drag "the country" into it.
Edmonton isn't alone. Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg and Thunder Bay are all dealing with the same problem, as are many other smaller communities around us. This problem is the country's problem because the only way to fix it involved changing federal laws regarding crime, poverty and First Nations.

Ignoring the issue by pretending it doesn't exist will only make it worse. While the Edmonton to Thunder Bay region has a lot of people, it isn't enough to force the government to implement the changes we need. We need people in cities like Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto and Montreal to understand the issues central/prairie Canada faces and deal with them head on.

The only way First Nations people can get back on their feet is if the whole country works together to give them the tools they need to get there.
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  #1024  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 2:29 AM
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^ well said Vid. I was going to post something similiar, but it wouldn't have been this concise or diplomatic...
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  #1025  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 3:16 AM
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It's because of the cold weather and desolate location and frankly quite boring cities. You go a little crazy. Not saying that Vancouver doesnt fluctuate some years. Hell last year abbotsford was crowned murder Capitol of Canada. The prairies just stay at high rates yer in year out because of what I stated above. That, and high native populations.
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  #1026  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 3:17 AM
Spoolmak Spoolmak is offline
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The guy who was murdered in Kamloops yesterday was killed by, guess, a first nations man.
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  #1027  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 3:58 AM
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^^^change has to come from within the first nations communities, anything else will be just spun as an attack on their traditional way of life (which is oddly violent)
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  #1028  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 2:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolmak View Post
It's because of the cold weather and desolate location and frankly quite boring cities. You go a little crazy.
This is perhaps the most ridiculous analogy I have read on here for quite a while. I think you need to get around a bit more.

I cringe to think what you got up to when you were a kid, and found yourself bored on an afternoon...

Last edited by drew; Mar 24, 2011 at 2:52 PM.
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  #1029  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 3:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolmak View Post
It's because of the cold weather and desolate location and frankly quite boring cities. You go a little crazy. Not saying that Vancouver doesnt fluctuate some years. Hell last year abbotsford was crowned murder Capitol of Canada. The prairies just stay at high rates yer in year out because of what I stated above. That, and high native populations.
Are these the gross over-simplifications you use to deal with, and move on with your life?
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  #1030  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 4:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolmak View Post
It's because of the cold weather and desolate location and frankly quite boring cities. You go a little crazy. Not saying that Vancouver doesnt fluctuate some years. Hell last year abbotsford was crowned murder Capitol of Canada. The prairies just stay at high rates yer in year out because of what I stated above. That, and high native populations.
It's only March and we may have a winner for most ignorant post of the year.

Cold weather: explains why generally more crime occurs in summer months
Desolation and boredom: care to explain the causation here? I'm sure all the boredom in New Orleans is to blame for the crime problems there.
We could all go on about your absurd generalizations but what would the point be?

It's funny after how Vid so rightly pointed out the ignorance of much of Canada toward the Aboriginal reality we have a post like this. You mention it in the end, but it's certainly not an "in addition to" factor, it is THE factor. Again, as Vid pointed out, until there's a better understanding of the nuances of this issue we're going to see continued ignorance with regards to the higher crime rates in this region.

At least you might be on to something regarding Abbotsford, unless you're into bible thumping or raspberry farming the place is boring as hell. Although you might want to learn the difference between capitol and capital.
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  #1031  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 6:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolmak View Post
It's because of the cold weather and desolate location and frankly quite boring cities. You go a little crazy. Not saying that Vancouver doesnt fluctuate some years. Hell last year abbotsford was crowned murder Capitol of Canada. The prairies just stay at high rates yer in year out because of what I stated above. That, and high native populations.
That's good, insult a bunch of cities to make your point, which is actually complete BS. way to go jackass.
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  #1032  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post
Regarding the case from Timmins last week, the man who was accused of killing his son-in-law was found dead in his cell last night. OPP are investigating.

A 19-year-old girl charged with first degree murder on a northern Ontario reserve in 2009 has been handed a life sentence after pleading guilty to the lesser charge of second degree murder. She will not be eligible for parole until 2019, ten years after the murder took place.



Edmonton isn't alone. Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg and Thunder Bay are all dealing with the same problem, as are many other smaller communities around us. This problem is the country's problem because the only way to fix it involved changing federal laws regarding crime, poverty and First Nations.

Ignoring the issue by pretending it doesn't exist will only make it worse. While the Edmonton to Thunder Bay region has a lot of people, it isn't enough to force the government to implement the changes we need. We need people in cities like Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto and Montreal to understand the issues central/prairie Canada faces and deal with them head on.

The only way First Nations people can get back on their feet is if the whole country works together to give them the tools they need to get there.
Calgary has as many aboriginals as most of the cities you posted, but we don't have the crime, Calgary's problems are mostly drug related. Most of our murders a few years ago were the result of a gang war between Asian gangs, not aboriginals. What percentage of murders in the cities you listed are committed by, or involve aboriginals?
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  #1033  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 6:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
Calgary has as many aboriginals as most of the cities you posted, but we don't have the crime, Calgary's problems are mostly drug related. Most of our murders a few years ago were the result of a gang war between Asian gangs, not aboriginals. What percentage of murders in the cities you listed are committed by, or involve aboriginals?
I cannot find any stats at the moment, but IIRC, Calgary has a far lower percentage of Aboriginals making up the population compared to those other cities mentioned.

Either way, the crux of this argument is not specifically an aboriginal issue, it's a poverty issue. It just happens that the majority of impoverished people in cities like Winnipeg, Thunder Bay, Saskatoon, and Regina are aboriginal.

Calgary has priced itself out of the extreme poverty and crime game. If housing and rent cost as much in Winnipeg as they did in Calgary, our crime level would probably eventually drop to comparable levels - although this just shifts the poverty/crime problem somewhere else. It doesn't solve it.
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  #1034  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 6:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
Calgary has as many aboriginals as most of the cities you posted,
i highly doubt that is true. your lucky that Edmonton is the "filter" of sorts that keeps your numbers low. i guess the fact that our city has been run by bleeding hearts for so long doesnt help our case though...
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  #1035  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 7:54 PM
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In 2006 Edmonton CMA had twice as many Aboriginals than Calgary CMA (total, not per capita). Does Edmonton have double the crime? It's not even close. Saskatoon, Regina, and Winnipeg have a significantly higher percentage than Edmonton. Prince Albert CA has half as many Aboriginals than Calgary with less than 1/25th of the population.

This stuff is all free on StatCan.
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  #1036  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2011, 8:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintzilla View Post
^^^change has to come from within the first nations communities
Change has been trying to come from First Nations communities, but the Indian Act keeps it down, which is ultimately what that law was intended to do. Nishnawbe Aski Nation, for example, wants to establish an education system for its people, but the Indian Act gives them no tools to generate the funds necessary to support that system, so it is constantly at risk. They have to beg Indian Affairs to give them the money they need to educate their people. The federal government, as a result of the treaties, made it law that the federal government would provide education on reserves, but it provides only the basics, up to grade 9. The quality of school buildings and teaching materials on some reserves is similar to African countries. You can not expect people living without decent access to education to be able to fully integrate themselves in our economy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
What percentage of murders in the cities you listed are committed by, or involve aboriginals?
Off the top of my head, Thunder Bay is at least 85% and Winnipeg is probably over 70% based on what I can recall. Last year, 3 of 4 homicides involved First Nations people who were visiting the city from their reserves for education and legal reasons.

Most of Thunder Bay's homicides in the past 20 years have occurred in my neighbourhood, which has a large aboriginal population. My street in particular is around 60% aboriginal. As a white person I am a minority, though oddly, I've only experienced real racism (the kind that shocks you) from other white people, often when I explain my position on First Nations issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
I cannot find any stats at the moment, but IIRC, Calgary has a far lower percentage of Aboriginals making up the population compared to those other cities mentioned.
I compiled this a couple years ago, the data is from the 2006 Census:

Code:
        ab.     total  %ab.

AB  188,365 3,067,990   6.1
SK  141,890   953,850  14.9
MB  175,395 1,133,515  15.5

NO  98,720    736,505  13.4 (Northern Ontario)
+NW 46,455    232,375  20.0 (Northwestern Ontario)
-KE 26,345     63,995  41.2 (Kenora District)
-RA  4,615     21,275  21.7 (Rainy River (Fort Frances) District)
-TH 15,495    147,105  10.5 (Thunder Bay District)
+NE 52,265    504,130  10.4 (Northeastern Ontario)
-AL 12,925    116,075  11.1 (Algoma (Sault Ste. Marie) District)
-CO  9,665     81,465  11.9 (Cochrane (Timmins) District)
-GR  9,635    155,995   6.2 (City of Greater Sudbury)
-MA  5,035     12,940  38.9 (Manitoulin Island District)
-NI  7,315     83,605   8.7 (Nipissing (North Bay) District)
-SU  2,885     21,255  13.6 (Sudbury District (rural area around Greater Sudbury)
-TI  1,805     32,795   5.5 (Temiskaming District (rural area between Sudbury and Quebec, north of North Bay))

NT  20,635     41,055  50.3
NU  24,915     29,325  85.0
YK   7,580     30,195  25.1

LB  10,560     36,920  28.6 (Labrador-Grenfell Health Region, which includes part of Newfoundland Island)
NQ  23,530     39,550  59.5 (Nord-du-Quebec, aka Ungava)
Thunder Bay, Winnipeg, Saskatoon, and Regina are all around 10% to 15% aboriginal. Thunder Bay had the smallest percentage, but the fastest increase over the previous census. Edmonton was around 7%, but had the largest population nominally. Those stats were for CMAs which in Thunder Bay's case includes a reserve; not sure about the others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
Either way, the crux of this argument is not specifically an aboriginal issue, it's a poverty issue. It just happens that the majority of impoverished people in cities like Winnipeg, Thunder Bay, Saskatoon, and Regina are aboriginal.
It is an aboriginal issue in that a lot of aboriginals live in poverty "because" they are aboriginal. This is caused by the following, in no specific order:

Discrimination against Aboriginals by employers, under the assumption that "they're all lazy". Aboriginals are unreliable more often than non-aboriginals, but that is often caused by other issues (substance abuse or depression, most often).

Fear/lack of self esteem: Many aboriginal people are subjected to racism from a very young age, and this instills in them the belief that they can't succeed, and they often give up. This is another big challenge and you can ask any teacher in a largely aboriginal school about the difficulties of teaching these kids that they're not failures and they they do have a chance.

Mental health issues (such as depression, PTSD, FASD) caused by a variety of factors such as substance abuse, troubled home life or experience in the residential school system or the inability to find and hold down a job

Substance abuse, related to the above. Many aboriginals that use substances are using them to "escape" the problems they face. Older generations turned to substances to deal with the trauma of being in residential schools, and when they had kids they were not able to properly raise them. The kids ended up like their parents, and if they had kids, passed the behaviour down. This aspect of the most difficult part of the aboriginal poverty issue--getting those kids out of the substance abuse/poverty cycle. In some communities, such as Eabametoong, levels of substance abuse are over 50%. The drug of choice is pain killers and most of them are coming from Southern Ontario. This is a national problem, and it deserves national attention.



There is a lot of residual racism in society (our mayor was threatened with violence recently by a man from Edmonton because he pledged to work with Aboriginal leadership; he also received a very despicable letter from a local citizen--you can read more here.), and a lot of people, mostly whites, think that is isn't a problem and they should just "grin and bear it" or whatever, but those little remarks over a long period of time add up and do a lot of damage to a person's opinion of themselves. Being gay I'm better able to understand how that kind of thing works. Little comments like "faggot" or "gays are disgusting" can be shrugged off no problem, but when you're subject to this kind of thing for your entire life from most of the people you meet, it seriously impacts your self-esteem, and that limits what you can achieve.

While this might not be a problem in cities like Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto or Calgary, this low-key casual racism is still a very serious issue in the Edmonton-to-Thunder Bay region, and it is a significant contributor (but not the sole cause) of a lot of problems aboriginals face and a reason why it is so difficult to help them. We're constantly facing road blocks, as shown by the threats to Thunder Bay's mayor in the past couple weeks. Even within the comments to that story, there is a lot of "well, they should just deal with it" or "we shouldn't have let them in the city", and those are just not acceptable remarks on the situation the we, aboriginals and non-aboriginals (aka, "Canadians"), face. There are a lot of small problems and a lot of solutions to them but we aren't moving very fast at implementing any of the solutions, and the longer we wait, the worse the problem will be.

I'm going to make a chart to show aboriginal population percentages since it is something I've wanted to see for a while but haven't found yet, I'll post it later.
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  #1037  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2011, 10:01 PM
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It is an aboriginal issue in that a lot of aboriginals live in poverty "because" they are aboriginal.

While you make some good points on this Vid, one thing I fail to see in this argument is "choice". As individuals, every person has a choice. A choice to turn to drugs or not, a choice to attend school or not, a choice to succeed or not. In this day and age, it is ignorant to group all aboriginals into one group where failure is inevitable "because they are aboriginal". I agree that more can, and should be done to help aboriginals strive to succeed but the government has many programs in place that give individuals of aboriginal ancestry every chance to advance themselves.

Internet businesses, as an example, don't have a "face" per se, that might allow for discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, etc. There are limitless opportunities via the web for business success.

I don't know the specifics you refer to with respect to education but I went to medical school with two individuals of native ancestry, whom I believe had their education paid for by the government! They took every advantage provided to them under the agreements and made the best for themselves that they possibly could.
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  #1038  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2011, 12:25 AM
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^ its easier to make excuses and blame others than to work on a solution...
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  #1039  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2011, 12:28 AM
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OK, here's the cities and provinces/territories by crime and their corresponding Native populations (crime rates according to Maclean's as of 2009 Aboriginal populations according to StatsCan as of 2006)

Provinces/Territories

1. Nunuvat- 85.0%
2. Northwest Territories- 50.3%
3. Yukon- 25.1%
4. Saskatchewan- 14.9%
5. Manitoba- 15.5%
6. British Columbia- 4.8%
7. Alberta- 5.8%
8. Nova Scotia- 2.7%
9. Quebec- 1.5%
10. Newfoundland and Labrador- 4.7%
11. New Brunswick- 2.5%
12. Ontario- 2.0%
13. Prince Edward Island- 1.3%

Cities

1. Prince George, B.C.- 11.4%
2. Victoria, B.C.- 3.7%
3. Regina, Sask- 9.3%
4. Saskatoon, Sask- 9.9%
5. Fort McMurray, Alta- 10.4%
6. Kelowna, B.C- 3.4%
7. Grande Prairie, Alta- 9.3%
8. Surrey, B.C- 1.9%
9. Chilliwack, B.C- 4.9%
10. Winnipeg, Man- 10.1%
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  #1040  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2011, 4:03 AM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
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Quebec City usually comes up with no murders I heard? I think they had zero last year or the year before.
Wonder what their trick is to such low crime.
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