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  #61  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2007, 4:18 PM
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  #62  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2007, 5:04 PM
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so i take it the project is going forward, and its not going to be turned into a parking lot?
     
     
  #63  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2007, 6:26 PM
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they can't all be winners and I support development but this is one tired out of date ugly design
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2007, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Frisco_Zig View Post
they can't all be winners and I support development but this is one tired out of date ugly design
I think it will fit nicely on Market. Way better than the ugly building that was there before
     
     
  #65  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2007, 7:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Frisco_Zig View Post
they can't all be winners and I support development but this is one tired out of date ugly design
Yeah, it does look a bit like 101 California (ala late 80s). However, it should help to block the ugly monstrosity of Fox Plaza, viewing from the south. In addition, it should help to create additional density in the western portion of downtown.

Also, although 101 California is dated, I think it is one of the most attractive skyscrapers downtown.
     
     
  #66  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2007, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
Yeah, it does look a bit like 101 California (ala late 80s). However, it should help to block the ugly monstrosity of Fox Plaza, viewing from the south. In addition, it should help to create additional density in the western portion of downtown.

Also, although 101 California is dated, I think it is one of the most attractive skyscrapers downtown.
its alright. ive yet to see a real spectacular heller manus.

i like 101 california a lot however. not my favorite of architects, but i have a lot of respect for philip johnson (& burgee) - they were masters of post-modernism.
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2007, 10:12 PM
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its alright. ive yet to see a real spectacular heller manus.
You may have only to wait a few months for the glass to finish going up on 555 Mission.
     
     
  #68  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2007, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry of San Fran View Post
I was by the site of the Market and 10th St. project today (Oct. 4th) and see a very large sign advertising "Monthly Parking". It does not look like a building will be going up on that corner soon.
The Developers (Crescent Heights and the Tenderloin Develop Corp. , respectively) requested expedited demolition due to the number of small fires being set in the at-the-time empty buildings by squatters. The building permits/plans for the structures are in the review phase and should be finalized soon, thanks to the final adopting of the Octavia/Market zoning plan. In the meantime, they evidently would like to defray the carrying costs of the land by offering parking. Isn't there a ballot proposal in the works to forbid entitled lots from being used as surface lots without the project losing it's entitlement?

Last edited by coyotetrickster; Oct 28, 2007 at 10:55 PM.
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2007, 6:15 AM
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You may have only to wait a few months for the glass to finish going up on 555 Mission.
555 mission was designed by KPF.
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2007, 8:12 AM
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^^^According to the Heller Manus website:

Quote:
555 Mission Street
San Francisco, California
Architects: Heller Manus / Kohn Pedersen Fox, Associated Architects
Source: http://www.hellermanus.com/portfolio...%22%24H3%3C%0A

It doesn't look like their work to me, but they are taking credit. I'll leave it to others to sort out the truth of it.
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2007, 9:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BTinSF View Post
^^^According to the Heller Manus website:


Source: http://www.hellermanus.com/portfolio...%22%24H3%3C%0A

It doesn't look like their work to me, but they are taking credit. I'll leave it to others to sort out the truth of it.
i know a number of individuals who worked on the design at KPF's offices in new york. h+m served as their local architect, much like chong + partners is the local architect for renzo piano's academy of sciences or fong + chan were the local for herzog & de meuron's de young.

you'll note that kpf gets lead billing on tishman's own website for the project, and h+m is generally referred to, but not always, as the local architect. however, they are the architect of record since they did the construction documents.
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 6:03 AM
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A crude parking lot has been made at the site after the demolition of the buildings at 10th and Market Sts. and the rates are very high for an open air parking space.

I just got back from Philadelphia and saw the Comcast Center. I personally think it is a very beautiful building. It is the tallest building in the city. I hope San Francisco gets a building as nice at the transit center.
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 10:13 PM
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awesome tower! Love the design!
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  #74  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 12:51 AM
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I went to a meeting today held by SPUR called "10th & Market: A War Story," during which Jeff Heller (of Heller Manus) spoke about the difficulties of getting this project approved, even though it was seemingly a shoe-in.

I'm sure it's already been said here, but the first thing I guess I should mention is that Jeff Heller said there are no remaining civic process hurdles that can obstruct construction. They are currently "a few months" away from construction. However, he did mention Sue Hestor (whenever she was mentioned, the room would erupt in sarcastic laughter - needless to say, it was a pro-tower crowd), and said that she could try and appeal the approval, but Heller said that even if she did, they had a strong case against her.

The interesting thing about his presentation was that 10th & Market has essentially been zoned for a tower of this height since about 1971. That year the city created a proposal of various height limits in certain parts of town, and the 10th & Market area was included as a "node" of downtown (it is literally right outside the Market/Octavia zone). He proceeded to show the addition of the new tower from various different vantage points around the city, and how it fit in very well with the neighborhood height wise. It was all pretty well laid out in my opinion.

The bulk of the presentation was about the major problem they ran into before they got approval, which was the Comprehensive Wind Study. A wind study conducted by UC Davis came back that said that the structure would greatly increase wind in the area. And I mean a huge difference, based on the numbers he showed in his slides. Heller said that he and his firm were having a collective aneurysm, as they couldn't understand how the building was creating that much of a wind increase, especially since they had designed the building to prevent this. Apparently bulidings that have a round facade like this one, help deflect wind around a building, as opposed to a rectanglur building (a la Fox Plaza) which pushes wind down & up, thereby increasing wind speeds and discomfort for pedestrians. The wind problem was so severe that the Planning Commission said they couldn't build it. Not to be outdone, Heller Manus hired the most renowned wind study firm in the world, some firm called RWDI out of Toronto. They ran advanced computer simulations of the entire area to determine how the building performed, and the computer models showed much less wind effect. Eventually, UC Davis, RWDI, and some other firm corroborated the findings, essentially giving a gold seal of approval to the tower's design, and the Planning Commission still had "questions." They apparently didn't want to accept the wind study because they archaic planning code didn't take into account computer simulations. The whole point was to show how the PLanning Commission wants all these advanced studies done, but the Planning Code itself is so far behind that what the Planning Commission wants and what the Code dictate are actually very different. And that just makes the process that much more difficult and slow for developers who want to bring a project to fruition.

Anyways, they finally got the building approved, but it was incredibly difficult and onerous, especially considering that the building complied with all regulations for that parcel (meaning, they weren't introducing anything radical).

The building is:
1) all apartments - i talked to Jeff about this, and he said that it wasn't any demand by the planning commission, it was just converted from condo to apts b/c of current market economics.
2) LEED certified - not silver or gold or anything, just certified. Some of his slides showed a simple green roof on top of the building (nothing ornate or extravagant though, and I don't think it covered the entire roof either).
3) will have a small plaza at the corner of market & 10th.
4) 19,000 sq ft of retail all along the market street front and 10th street front
5) Will have a parking ratio of approximately .7 per unit.
6) meets the affordable housing requirement, and contains it on site.

Heller concluded his presentation by saying that the city is definitely changing. In response to a question by an attendee asking about how much opposition there was to the project, he said that the project had almost no opposition at all (Sue Hestor notwithstanding). But he said one of the many reasons for the different attitude is that people increasingly view SF and the Bay Area as part of a global economy, and that the city has to compete. He also singled out the new and younger generation of SF and Bay Area residents who are standing up and saying that we belong on the world stage.

He ended by showing Transbay Tower, and how its transforming perceptions of SF, and he also showed his 900 ft 181 Fremont proposal (i really wanted to ask him about that, but by the time i remembered he was already swamped by like 10 people).

That was about it. Pretty interesting actually. 1 hour long in total. 45 minutes in presentation, 15 minutes in questions.
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 12:58 AM
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Thanks for the thorough update.
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 1:13 AM
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Well I very much look forward to seeing it under construction by the time I get back next spring.

And thanks again for the first solid info we've had in a long time.
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 1:42 AM
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Thanks for the amazing insight!

It would be great if they started BOTH this project as well as the Trinity Plaza project by next spring.
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 4:20 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
Thanks for the amazing insight!
Don't mention it. I should add though, that had the building stayed condo, the cost of all the additional studies that were required would have added about $4 to $5,000 per unit. I think Heller drove that point home to help illustrate how onerous the planning process can be, and how they have no choice but to pass the buck onto the buyer. Of course, the building is now all apartments.

I should also add that Heller was a bit dodgy when asked about a construction timeline. All he would say was "a few months away," and he seemed hesitant to commit to a timetable. I'm assuming they are working out final construction details, which can take some time.
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 3:05 PM
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Originally Posted by munkyman View Post
he also showed his 900 ft 181 Fremont proposal
Great update! Did he show any new renderings of 181 Fremont, or just the stuff we've already seen?
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  #80  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 5:58 PM
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Originally Posted by peanut gallery View Post
Great update! Did he show any new renderings of 181 Fremont, or just the stuff we've already seen?
No new renderings, just the same one we've seen (from the same angle). I really wish I'd asked him about it, although I'm not sure he would have given me much.
     
     
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