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  #141  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
New York is 7th (essentially tied with Toronto)
It's only "essentially tied with Toronto" if it has the same "essential" GDP. There are around 1000% as many municipalities in the US, so if you're talking about being "tied" by rank it'd be the #70 US city, not the 7th.
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  #142  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick View Post
It's only "essentially tied with Toronto" if it has the same "essential" GDP. There are around 1000% as many municipalities in the US, so if you're talking about being "tied" by rank it'd be the #70 US city, not the 7th.
It's a long tail of municipalities at the bottom half of the population in the US. I don't think in terms of top populous cities the USA and Canada are much different. There is a stand out population centre in Canada versus two in the USA, and than we both have a host of middle tier population centres, than we have a whole bunch at the bottom below that.

In that scale, New York and Toronto are really essentially tied, in that they are beat by a host of middle tier population centres in their respective countries.

I don't buy into the 1 to 1 GDP comparison either, there are several differences that go beyond GDP, including the multiple thousands difference in health care costs that residents of the USA pay compared to Canada.
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  #143  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 7:18 PM
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^ And tax burden. If you compare tax take plus health care costs Canada compares very favourably. In some places, even the tax versus tax comparison is pretty good.
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  #144  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2014, 6:42 PM
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OPEC rejects production cuts; oil prices and energy stocks taking a beating today. Looks like a real slowdown is headed our way.

http://business.financialpost.com/20..._lsa=c653-948c
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  #145  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2014, 7:14 PM
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The pinch is going to be felt soon.
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  #146  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2014, 7:50 PM
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Slightly concerned now with oil plunging to $70. Can calgary continue to grow through this cycle?
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  #147  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2014, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ItsALondonThing View Post
Slightly concerned now with oil plunging to $70. Can calgary continue to grow through this cycle?
It'll either grow at a slower pace than expected or stagnate (which I hope is not the case).
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  #148  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2014, 8:09 PM
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Looks like OPEC wants to go to war on prices to squeeze out the smaller companies and those with higher extraction costs. Unfortunately, it's probably only a matter of time now till the job market feels this crunch.
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  #149  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2014, 1:45 AM
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It's too bad, office market was doing better than I thought. 1.2M sf of positive absorption this year, 5.4% vacancy central area even after EAP West and Centre 10 recently hit the market, 6.1% vacancy city wide. Prob weren't too far off from seeing Oxford's project get going. These companies need to diversify to deal with all energy sources including alternative.

http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/~/me...ice_Q32014.pdf
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  #150  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2014, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Spring2008 View Post
It's too bad, office market was doing better than I thought. 1.2M sf of positive absorption this year, 5.4% vacancy central area even after EAP West and Centre 10 recently hit the market, 6.1% vacancy city wide. Prob weren't too far off from seeing Oxford's project get going. These companies need to diversify to deal with all energy sources including alternative.

http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/~/me...ice_Q32014.pdf
You speak in the past tense, is Oxford's project no longer going ahead?
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  #151  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2014, 8:07 PM
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Originally Posted by red_179 View Post
Looks like OPEC wants to go to war on prices to squeeze out the smaller companies and those with higher extraction costs. Unfortunately, it's probably only a matter of time now till the job market feels this crunch.
It's not the first time OPEC has done this. It'll probably have the same effect it always does. The market gets tight, there is some pain, things settle out, after a while OPEC prices start to go back up again, and the cycle starts all over. We'll probably see what we did about 5-6 years ago. A slowdown, and then the gradual ramp up to a boom.
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  #152  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2014, 8:12 PM
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It's not the first time OPEC has done this. It'll probably have the same effect it always does. The market gets tight, there is some pain, things settle out, after a while OPEC prices start to go back up again, and the cycle starts all over. We'll probably see what we did about 5-6 years ago. A slowdown, and then the gradual ramp up to a boom.
Hits to major infrastructure can really hurt, as sometimes the timing sweet-spot gets missed.

I'm curious how these prices will impact newer US production relative to Alberta. I suspect we're going to be in tough.
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  #153  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2014, 8:18 PM
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Depends what depletion rates look like on tight wells - could lag 12 months, could lag 3 years. If you can handle the capital cost, shutting in, or reducing production rates likely makes sense (though makes less sense due to US export restrictions). Rejigging the refineries on the Gulf Coast to handle ultra light oil from Eagle Ford could swing the market quite a bit. There is a lot of new/formerly mothballed refining capacity coming on stream world wide.
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  #154  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2014, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Deepstar View Post
It's not the first time OPEC has done this. It'll probably have the same effect it always does. The market gets tight, there is some pain, things settle out, after a while OPEC prices start to go back up again, and the cycle starts all over. We'll probably see what we did about 5-6 years ago. A slowdown, and then the gradual ramp up to a boom.
I hope you're right.

The last time OPEC tried this back in the 80's, they drove the price down to below $20 a barrel. I highly doubt it will go that low, but I wouldn't be surprised if it goes as low as $55 a barrel.
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  #155  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2014, 8:36 PM
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I don't think anyone knows how the price drop will affect things. There will be some pain, as I'm sure some activity will either scale down or be postponed. How much actual pain will be felt is anyone's guess. The last time we felt some pain of any kind was in 2008, and you can see from the chart that Oil was really spiked and then really dropped, but you can also see from the chart that oil was around the $70.00 mark in 2010 and we had some good population growth and good economic growth at that time.

Keep a few things in mind....
-Calgary is heavily involved in oil, but also other facets of the industry. Gas, R&D, Pipeline, and Admin. The admin part is mostly static. A few people may get laid off here and there, but mostly it's static. Pipeline projects are up and down, but are very long term projects. If Keystone got the go ahead today that project would gear up instantly regardless of the price of oil. Gas is mostly static. It's been at low prices for a long time and chugs along.

-Calgary also has other head office and non O&G stuff. Head office's like Westjet, CPRail, Shaw, Agrium, ATCO, and some other decent sized companies. Also a fair amount of regional head offices.

-At the moment Oil, especially the oil sands is a long term thing. Sharp price drops may postpone projects, but it doesn't change the investor outlook for long the long term. You just have to look at the chart below and see that the prices has jumped around a lot in the last 10 years, but Calgary has boomed through almost all of it. The blip during 2008 caused some slowdown but was best described as a speedbump.

The worst thing about this, is the uncertainty. Could Oil go as low as $40 or $50 bucks a barrel? There could be quite a bit of pain if it went that low for long periods.

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  #156  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2014, 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ItsALondonThing View Post
You speak in the past tense, is Oxford's project no longer going ahead?
Prob not anytime soon now.
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  #157  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2014, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Surrealplaces View Post
I don't think anyone knows how the price drop will affect things. There will be some pain, as I'm sure some activity will either scale down or be postponed. How much actual pain will be felt is anyone's guess. The last time we felt some pain of any kind was in 2008, and you can see from the chart that Oil was really spiked and then really dropped, but you can also see from the chart that oil was around the $70.00 mark in 2010 and we had some good population growth and good economic growth at that time.

Keep a few things in mind....
-Calgary is heavily involved in oil, but also other facets of the industry. Gas, R&D, Pipeline, and Admin. The admin part is mostly static. A few people may get laid off here and there, but mostly it's static. Pipeline projects are up and down, but are very long term projects. If Keystone got the go ahead today that project would gear up instantly regardless of the price of oil. Gas is mostly static. It's been at low prices for a long time and chugs along.

-Calgary also has other head office and non O&G stuff. Head office's like Westjet, CPRail, Shaw, Agrium, ATCO, and some other decent sized companies. Also a fair amount of regional head offices.

-At the moment Oil, especially the oil sands is a long term thing. Sharp price drops may postpone projects, but it doesn't change the investor outlook for long the long term. You just have to look at the chart below and see that the prices has jumped around a lot in the last 10 years, but Calgary has boomed through almost all of it. The blip during 2008 caused some slowdown but was best described as a speedbump.

The worst thing about this, is the uncertainty. Could Oil go as low as $40 or $50 bucks a barrel? There could be quite a bit of pain if it went that low for long periods.

My take as someone who works in the industry:

Filling new office towers requires headcount growth. What we are likely to see instead is projects being reevaluated, and some of those projects will not go forward. At the very least, this would result in workforce reductions at EPCs. Furthermore, it's likely that facilities engineering and development groups will be carrying some slack if future projects are slowed down or shelved. Head office administrative functions are not as static as you might think, as there is less of a need for shared services like HR and IT when you are not hiring new employees. If companies go into cost cutting mode, they will do things like consolidate business units and engineering groups, which eliminates management positions as well. There will be reverberations through financial and business services to oil companies, as capital budgets are reduced.

I am generally an optimistic person, but pragmatic as I've been working in this industry long enough to see a few cycles. Everything points to this being a longer term downturn as it is driven by a supply glut (like oil in 1985 or natural gas, which has been in a bear market since 2006) as opposed to a demand shock (like 2009). The key difference here is instead of simply moving up/down the supply curve based on demand, the shape of the curve is in fact changing.

Costs in the US shale plays have dropped dramatically. Many companies have raised their type curves 30-50% in the last 2 years, which means almost a corresponding 30-50% reduction their breakeven costs (though not quite because of more expensive completions). People are talking about how shale oil isn't profitable below $80. Well they are looking at data from 2 years ago, and today shale oil can be profitable at $60 based on the numbers I am seeing. Again, you can look at the analogy of natural gas. A few years ago, people were saying how there is no way shale gas could be profitable below $5.00, but today many shale plays are profitable well below $4.00 gas.

Fortunately, we have some very good shale plays in Canada, but they don't employ nearly as many people as oil sands. Think Tourmaline who only employs around 200-300 people for a 150,000boepd company vs say Devon who still has 10 times that number of office staff in Calgary for less production (post divesture).

On the bright side, hopefully this means a castration of the Palliser Balls.
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  #158  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2014, 1:24 AM
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The practical problem we have presently is something of a death spiral for a lot of producing countries. They have to produce more at the depressed prices and fight for market share to keep sufficient oil revenue flowing, all the while they are feeding the ever growing glut.

The problem with the speculation and oil depletion quackery of the previous decade was it moved the needle in very real ways.

Our fortunes are mostly tied to decisions to be made by US refiners. If they believe there is a reliable long-term domestic supply of US light crude that will sell at a discount from the world price thanks to the US ban on crude oil exports, we're probably in a world of trouble. The attitude in Canada has been the light US condensates will make a marvelous diluent for the oil sands. When US refiners came out and lobbied against exceptions allowing for the export of light condensates it spooked a lot of people in this province. That means they want it for themselves.

I know a couple people who have been laid off in the last couple of weeks and a couple more expecting the axe to fall in January.
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  #159  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2014, 8:52 AM
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Canadian Oil to be fall guy?

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil...ow-Prices.html

Thoughts welcome.
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  #160  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2014, 3:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ItsALondonThing View Post
Canadian Oil to be fall guy?

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil...ow-Prices.html

Thoughts welcome.
It'll be tight for a while but I don't know if you'll see a significant job losses as there are still a number of key projects that are in progress and will likely continue to progress just possibly at a slower rate. Of course if one or more the of the pipelines get approved, it'll change the whole story.
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