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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 2:13 AM
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Question What relationships does your city have with others in Canada/U.S.?

In the Atlantic Canada section, we were discussing the failure of PASCAN's poorly-executed direct flight between Moncton and St. John's.

There seems to be a general consensus that the price was too expensive for non-business travelers - but my suggestion that our cities simply don't have much of a relationship and that could explain some of the problem in attracting casual travelers wasn't considered to be exactly on the mark.

And that makes me curious...

One of the things I really noticed about living on the Canadian mainland was the relationship between cities. Living in Halifax, it was a fun to take a weekend trip to visit Charlottetown. Living in Moncton, everywhere was only a few hours away. Living in Quebec City, the train to Montreal was a delight. Living in Winnipeg, it was a regular occurrence for friends to drive to the U.S. to go shopping.

It was all very new to me. St. John's is very isolated. It's not something that bothers me - in fact, I think it's part of the reason St. John's has been able to remain so distinct and the foundation of many of its charms - but I am more than a little envious of these inter-city relationships I experienced on the mainland.

Halifax, for many Canadians the edge of the country, is in reality only the halfway point if you're driving from Toronto to St. John's. It takes more than a day for us to get there when you add up the 1,500 km drive and lengthy ferry ride.

So our relationships with other cities are limited to moving there for school/work or as the destinations for travel that require at least a weekend. That's pretty much it.

In that regard, I suppose our most significant relationships are with just about any city in Alberta, Toronto, and the Maritimes.

Perhaps our most casual and spontaneous interactions with other cities are shopping trips - but those are fading in popularity as more and more of the middle class destination stores open up local franchies. Among my family and friends, Toronto is the most popular.

So, what about you? What interesting relationships does your city have with others in Canada and the U.S.? Anything that would surprise most of us?
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 2:26 AM
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Interesting thread.

I'm sure most intercity relationships will be based on geographic proximity.

For Moncton, as you have said, we are located in the center of the Maritimes and we have close relationships with most of the larger Maritime cities:

- Saint John is 90 minutes away
- Charlottetown is 105 minutes away
- Fredericton is 120 minutes away
- Halifax is 135 minutes away.

I usually end up spending time in each city every year. They all have their special qualities and I enjoy having the variety so close by.

If you want a special long weekend, Quebec City is about a seven hour drive, so that is feasible.

Bangor and Portland can be shopping destinations and can be reached in 4.5 hours and 6 hours respectively. I don't go down there very much anymore though…….

I find myself flying up to Toronto more and more all the time. We have multiple flights on a daily basis and I really like being able to fly into Billy Bishop downtown. Psychologically, that almost makes Moncton a suburb of TO…….
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 2:28 AM
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In regards to Vancouver...

Seattle, or northern Washington State, is very popular as a day trip down for shopping, sports or just something different to see. It just serves as kind of a get away to go down and hang out in a different city for a while. 18 year olds like to go down and buy tobacco on the cheap and resell it here, especially dip.

Victoria isn't as common due to the fact that you have to take a ferry, but people still go every now and then, again mostly just to experience something different. Being two of the biggest rugby hotspots in Canada, along with St. John's from what I understand, there is significant traffic between Victoria and Vancouver for tournaments, trials and games as the BC Premier league has 8 teams-3 in Greater Victoria and 5 in Greater Vancouver.

Kelowna is also very popular for skiing in the winter and the heat and lake in the summer. Also very popular for young people to go up for clubbing, and I hate to say this, but a big reason is the significant white population. In general it has a lot of stuff to do because of its climate year round, and it's seen as a good place to party too. It also produces a lot of wine so lots of people go for tastings and stuff like that.
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 3:32 AM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
Also very popular for young people to go up for clubbing, and I hate to say this, but a big reason is the significant white population. In general it has a lot of stuff to do because of its climate year round, and it's seen as a good place to party too. It also produces a lot of wine so lots of people go for tastings and stuff like that.

I'm not sure I follow. Do people from Lander not like partying with people who aren't white?
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 3:39 AM
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Well Ladner is just a suburb, and I don't really identify with it because I actually grew up in Richmond. But this is a trend I've seen from people all over Greater Vancouver. ANd it's not that people don't like partying with whites, they do it all the time, I think it's more for the hook-ups. Most guys I know, including ethnic men, prefer white girls. I should have mentioned this is a lot more common for males.

This is merely an observation. I don't mean any disrespect to anybody, it's just something I've noticed talking to a few people.
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 3:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
In regards to Vancouver...

Seattle, or northern Washington State, is very popular as a day trip down for shopping, sports or just something different to see. It just serves as kind of a get away to go down and hang out in a different city for a while. 18 year olds like to go down and buy tobacco on the cheap and resell it here, especially dip.
St-Pierre, France, is sort of like that for us - though it's really only popular as a casual, "Hey, not much on the go this weekend. Want to go to St-Pierre tomorrow?" for residents of the Burin Peninsula. For most Newfoundlanders, it's still a bit of a hike. From St. John's, it's about a four-hour drive and a quick ferry ride.

The drinking age is 13 or 14, I forget exactly, and vices are ridiculously cheap. They have a couple of surprisingly awesome nightclubs/pubs. It's also a popular spot with smugglers. Illegal cigarettes and booze from St-Pierre are relatively easy to get.
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 3:47 AM
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St-Pierre, France, is sort of like that for us - though it's really only popular as a casual, "Hey, not much on the go this weekend. Want to go to St-Pierre tomorrow?" for residents of the Burin Peninsula. For most Newfoundlanders, it's still a bit of a hike. From St. John's, it's about a four-hour drive and a quick ferry ride.

The drinking age is 13 or 14, I forget exactly, and vices are ridiculously cheap. They have a couple of surprisingly awesome nightclubs/pubs. It's also a popular spot with smugglers. Illegal cigarettes and booze from St-Pierre are relatively easy to get.
I've always thought about how cool it is that you guys have a completely different country right beside you. The US just doesn't cut it in that regard
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 3:55 AM
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It's awesome but it's small. It only has a few thousand people. Although it feels much larger than it is and punches well above its weight in terms of bustle, street-level density, and so on... it's a small town. That could describe St. John's for most of you, I'm sure, so keep that in perspective. St-Pierre is small to me.

But I can't think of many places where just a couple thousand people have made something this amazing:

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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 3:56 AM
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Well Ladner is just a suburb, and I don't really identify with it because I actually grew up in Richmond. But this is a trend I've seen from people all over Greater Vancouver. ANd it's not that people don't like partying with whites, they do it all the time, I think it's more for the hook-ups. Most guys I know, including ethnic men, prefer white girls. I should have mentioned this is a lot more common for males.

This is merely an observation. I don't mean any disrespect to anybody, it's just something I've noticed talking to a few people.
Ah. I see.

I grew up in Kelowna, and know all about the ''easy'' reputation it has from the outside. It was great for us sexual-charged teens growing up. Lots of good-looking girls and guys coming in from the outside to hook up with.
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 4:26 AM
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For Ottawa:

Montreal - was the unchallenged ''big city'' for a very long time and still fulfills that role for many Ottawans, and certainly still does for francophones. Still the first and closest place Ottawans think of to go let it all hang out, though Toronto has probably equalled or even passed it for most other ''big city'' pursuits.

Toronto - now the ''big city'' for most things except really letting your hair down and busting loose. It's where young ambitious, business-minded Ottawans tend to move if they do move.

Syracuse, NY - where Ottawa goes to cross-border shop and, increasingly, to take cheaper flights to destinations in the U.S.
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 4:46 AM
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Duluth is where we go shopping. We like to buy candy, clothes and power tools the most.

Minneapolis has the Mall of America. We don't go there. The interchange is too confusing.

Winnipeg is like an older brother that we see occasionally but otherwise don't think much of. When we do hang out we watch a Jets game then go shopping.

Sudbury is either a twin that got separated at birth or an adopted step brother that we never talk to. We're not sure why it exists. It has a Costco, where we like to go shopping.

Chicago is the only US city we can fly to. We would go shopping there if we could find the mall.

Ottawa is where everyone seems to move to, we don't know why though. They have Zellers... that means they have Winners, too! Let's go shopping.

Toronto is where the politicians come from. Sometimes they give us money. We shop there, too.

Fort McMurray is where we work. There is no shopping there so we go to Edmonton. We bought a pickup truck to park in front of the run down shack we share with 62 other guys for $5,340 a month.
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 4:49 AM
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Very cool thread idea, Signal.

Edmontonian relationships with others...

Calgary - the city to the south that many are both angry with and weirdly jealous of. It's the first place Edmonton often compares itself to (unlike Calgary, which goes straight for Vancouver or Toronto or international cities). Both cities have a lot of cross-traffic due to work or having friends/family in the other city, but neither views the other as a real place to go for a quick change of pace in an urban environment (Vancouver takes that role). Most Edmontonians will only really go to Calgary for the Zoo or Stampede (for Calgarians it's West Ed or concerts). Aside from those two things, if someone doesn't have any personal connections in the city, it's usually just a pit stop en route to Banff or the U.S. Border.

Jasper/Banff - the place to go to for camping, ski trips, or other quick weekend getaways and to get into nature. Due to proximity, Jasper is more popular than Banff is.

Fort McMurray - the place to go to make a quick buck in non-skilled industrial jobs, but not much else. Many Edmontonians still have their home and family still in the city/metro, and just live on camps for two weeks straight. The people from Fort McMurray (Fort McMurrians?) like to use Edmonton as an urban getaway and a good shopping trip (especially to West Ed).

Vancouver - the quick and easy urban getaway for Edmontonians looking for their urban "big city" fix. It's the closest city larger than Calgary, so it fills a similar niche that Montreal does for Ottawa or Toronto does for London, Ontario. Very popular with young creative types to move to (moreso than Montreal or Toronto) or just for school. It's a city Edmonton often compares itself to and wishes it was more like.

Victoria/"The Island" - popular tourist destination (especially if you're already going to Vancouver) and popular place to retire to if you don't want to deal with winter and don't want to live in the U.S.

Toronto - a place many Edmontonians are from or have family in, so it's popular for ex-Ontarians to go back for family reunions and whatnot. For born and raised Edmontonians (or transplants from elsewhere in the province), it's a popular place to move to for school or for a different, big city environment, or sometimes jobs (usually corporate jobs at headquarters based in the GTA).

Phoenix - lots of ex-Edmontonians and ex-Albertans live here full time or as snowbirds (only during the cold winters), especially the elderly. It's cheap, warm, and the climate is dry (like Alberta). So there's a lot of cross-traffic between the two with people going to their second homes in Scottsdale or visiting grandma in Tempe.

Houston/Dallas - mostly a place to go on business trips if you're in the oil and gas industry.

Orlando - see Phoenix, except with the benefit of many family-friendly activities nearby.

Las Vegas - due to cheap flights and a lack of a "Montreal" within close proximity, it's a place to go party and gamble - especially for women to go somewhere "with the girls"
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 5:21 AM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
In regards to Vancouver...

Seattle, or northern Washington State, is very popular as a day trip down for shopping, sports or just something different to see. It just serves as kind of a get away to go down and hang out in a different city for a while. 18 year olds like to go down and buy tobacco on the cheap and resell it here, especially dip.

Victoria isn't as common due to the fact that you have to take a ferry, but people still go every now and then, again mostly just to experience something different. Being two of the biggest rugby hotspots in Canada, along with St. John's from what I understand, there is significant traffic between Victoria and Vancouver for tournaments, trials and games as the BC Premier league has 8 teams-3 in Greater Victoria and 5 in Greater Vancouver.

Kelowna is also very popular for skiing in the winter and the heat and lake in the summer. Also very popular for young people to go up for clubbing, and I hate to say this, but a big reason is the significant white population. In general it has a lot of stuff to do because of its climate year round, and it's seen as a good place to party too. It also produces a lot of wine so lots of people go for tastings and stuff like that.
I know a lot of people who do the 5 hour drive to Portland for weekends as well.
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 6:38 AM
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It definitely happens, especially for the shopping, but I find it's once or twice a year compared to Seattle which could easily be like 10 times.
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 7:34 AM
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my Saskatchewan prospective..

Edmonton - for larger city (5 hour divided highway from Saskatoon), shopping (Ikea), West Ed for water/amusement park in Winter, NHL or major concerts

Calgary - for 'bigger city' quick fix (6 hrs from Stoon, 7 from Regina), shopping, Zoo, summer amusement park, Canada Olympic Pk.. the place in Canada you fly thru to get anywhere else..

Jasper/Banff/Lake Louise/Golden/Revelstoke- the Rocky mountains for winter skiing/boarding or summer hikes

VancouverSeattle- the 'West Coast' mostly for family/friends for most Sask visitors, 2 hr flight/ gateway to AsiaPacific, 20 hour drive thru mtns.. I go at least couple times a year (Whistler in Winter) but have family that have never been.

Victoria/Okanagan- if only for summer vaca or wine country

Winnipeg- ..up to a few years ago I had never been, I still have never driven east of.. but mostly for family/friends or shopping (Ikea), Banjo bowl, Grand Beach in Summer

eastern Canada- unless you are going to TO or Ottawa for business.. or unless you have some sort of reason to go like have family/friends there.. its rarely mentioned for visiting.. sometimes flights connect thru Pearson

Minot- drive to for cheap flights in the US, Black Hills-Devils tower/Yellowstone- for weekend summer getaways- Branson/Memphis(Graceland) for summer snowbirds

Las Vegas- by far the most popular quick flight weekend, or few days, getaway for partying/gambling, Grand Canyon, NASCAR..

Phoenix- winter snowbird destination, 2 hours flight from Regina/Saskatoon for visiting family/friends, Outlet shopping, concerts, 4 pro sports teams (cheap NHL tickets).. I go a couple times a year because its only the cost of the flight to stay with family for vacation

California- for the weekend or the week, I go to visit a few times a year but not nearly as popular for most people I know.

Denver/Minneapolis/Chicago- a flight-away gateway cities to connect to rest of world..

New York/Boston/DC- has become more popular for Sask because easy to connect to.. Shows, museums, galleries, shopping, sports.. anything big city

Orlando- Winter family vaca destination (Disney, Cape Canaveral cruises port, Busch gardens, Daytona)
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 8:33 AM
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^ Weird. Calgary for a "bigger" city experience? It's got a few hundred thousand more which, when in the millions, doesn't add up to much difference. Calgary has a bigger downtown feel and entering via the Deerfoot definitely evokes images of big city-ness, but otherwise, it feels just as big or small as Edmonton does.
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 8:55 AM
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^ Weird. Calgary for a "bigger" city experience? It's got a few hundred thousand more which, when in the millions, doesn't add up to much difference. Calgary has a bigger downtown feel and entering via the Deerfoot definitely evokes images of big city-ness, but otherwise, it feels just as big or small as Edmonton does.
I've always wondered this myself. According to the last census, Calgary is only 55,000 people bigger and you're right, at that population that's completely unnoticeable. Taller, more modern buildings and a longer rapid transit system might help, but it can't take you all that far.
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 2:09 PM
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It's probably just the white collar versus blue collar feel. Does Calgary have bigger universities as well?
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 3:04 PM
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For Kitchener, the obvious relationship is with its fraternal twin Waterloo. Once inseparable, Kitchener is proud of its twin's success but has gotten a bit tired of the attitude that developed after the twin got a great education and made a fortune in high tech. Nonetheless, they still speak every day and still work and play together. Fortunately, both have their sibling, Cambridge, to look down on. ( )

In the neighbourhood, K and W are both good friends with the Guelphs and the Stratfords and visit them often. They get along with the Woodstocks, but never really got to know the Hamiltons or the Brantfords, perhaps only because the roads to their houses are so nasty!. Then there's the Londons, who may be first cousins but come across as a bit cold and snooty!

In the USA, there are many options for cross-border shopping, and Buffalo offers those cheap airfares, but the relationship that matters most to the twins these days, surprisingly, is San Jose, California. Competitor, mentor and source of investment funding, people are often surprised to learn about that connection.
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Old Posted Dec 7, 2013, 3:33 PM
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montreal is closely linked to toronto in an economic and cultural sense, and new york city in a cultural one. my "mental region," when i lived there, was a loose circle consisting of quebec, toronto, ottawa, boston, and new york.

pristina is a different case, of course; here, we are linked to skopje and tirana in an everyday sense; vienna, zurich, and geneva in an albanian diaspora-related set of transport and commercial links; and istanbul in a historic sense.
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