HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions

Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:20 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,455
Quote:
Originally Posted by ithakas View Post
There's also a hefty amount of office space planned for the Union Station redevelopment a block away from the Old Post Office, and there's the full city block across the street from the Old Post Office with nothing but a small Holiday Inn, a couple single-story retail buildings, and a large parking lot.

There's also those two mega-developments in the works right across the river for their young urban workforce to call home...
Think the Union Station plans have 2M sq ft of office envisioned at full buildout, tho I'm all but certain the city would allow that to be bumped if there was a user.
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:20 PM
James Bond Agent 007's Avatar
James Bond Agent 007 James Bond Agent 007 is offline
Posh
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
Posts: 18,151
Here's a whole list of megadevelopments planned for Chicago. Maybe some of these are close-enough together that they could spread their offices out over 2 or 3 development sites, which isn't that different from what they're doing in Seattle:
https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/7/26...st-information
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:26 PM
Jawnadelphia's Avatar
Jawnadelphia Jawnadelphia is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Phila., PA
Posts: 1,767
Just rename it Amazon Yards ... "no problem, it's all yours!"

Philly already basically has the blueprint for a new tech mini-city with it's Schuylkill Yards/30th Street District Plan by Brandywine Realty Trust/Drexel/Amtrak. So close to 30th Street Station-Amtrak-SEPTA, so close to NYC/DC. Ivy League UPenn next door and engineering school Drexel. Stones throw from Center City. A big city once downtrodden, now on the rise and primed to finally reach her full potential. Would be perfect. Hopefully Philly has the civic leadership to get this done ....
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:28 PM
The North One's Avatar
The North One The North One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,309
Another big advantage in Michigan is the tax incentive bill which was passed that only applies to major transformational investment projects, that would be perfect for what Amazon wants to build.
__________________
Spawn of questionable parentage!
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:31 PM
James Bond Agent 007's Avatar
James Bond Agent 007 James Bond Agent 007 is offline
Posh
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
Posts: 18,151
Does Dan Gilbert own enough acreage in downtown Detroit to assemble several million sq of office space? :-/
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:31 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami
Posts: 2,977
The first 2 cities that came to mind were actually Austin (where every other tech firm is going nowadays) or the Research Triangle. Boston would make sense but Amazons entire business model is based on cutting costs everywhere they can so I assume they would prefer a lower costing area.
The numbers being bandied about are a little silly. No one needs 8 million square feet for a non HQ office these days. Or employs 50K people in a single non-HQ or even full HQ office. Apple and Microsoft massive HQ campuses don't employ anywhere near that much. Apples is like 12k. Microsoft employs only 30k at its HQ that is actually 8 million sq ft.
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:34 PM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Jersey - Somerset County
Posts: 23,972
Whatever city gets it will ensure several towers. Just look at Seattle for that track record. Really aided the general skyline and helped build blocks up.
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:37 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 16,779
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
The first 2 cities that came to mind were actually Austin (where every other tech firm is going nowadays) or the Research Triangle.
I think those two would make the most sense.

And it would probably be just a few hundred jobs to begin. It COULD be some gigantic number at some undetermined point, but it isn't like any location would need to have immediate capacity for 50,000 jobs.
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:41 PM
The North One's Avatar
The North One The North One is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
Does Dan Gilbert own enough acreage in downtown Detroit to assemble several million sq of office space? :-/
The Ilitches certainly do. They'd probably want a pretty penny though.
__________________
Spawn of questionable parentage!
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:45 PM
James Bond Agent 007's Avatar
James Bond Agent 007 James Bond Agent 007 is offline
Posh
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
Posts: 18,151
Here's another description of Amazon's requirements. Among other things they want something with an existing building of 500K sq ft, for starters.
https://qz.com/1071832/amazons-hq2-w...-headquarters/
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:51 PM
James Bond Agent 007's Avatar
James Bond Agent 007 James Bond Agent 007 is offline
Posh
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
Posts: 18,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
The first 2 cities that came to mind were actually Austin (where every other tech firm is going nowadays) or the Research Triangle.
Do either of those cities have any assemblages available that could potentially hold up to 8 million sq ft?

Quote:
The numbers being bandied about are a little silly. No one needs 8 million square feet for a non HQ office these days. Or employs 50K people in a single non-HQ or even full HQ office. Apple and Microsoft massive HQ campuses don't employ anywhere near that much. Apples is like 12k. Microsoft employs only 30k at its HQ that is actually 8 million sq ft.
Perhaps, but remember this would be a co-headquarters, and also, Amazon already has over 8 million sq ft in and around downtown Seattle.
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:53 PM
OhioGuy OhioGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Uptown, Chicago
Posts: 7,113
TThe Chicago Sun Times stated:

Quote:
It didn’t hint about where it might land, but its requirements could rule out some places: It wants to be near a metropolitan area with more than a million people; be able to attract top technical talent; be within 45 minutes of an international airport; have direct access to mass transit; and wants to be able to expand that headquarters to as much as 8 million square feet in the next decade. That’s about the same size as its current home in Seattle. Co-headquarters, though, often come about as a result of mergers.
http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/pri...d-headquarters

Granted mass transit includes buses, but I suspect the mass transit that is more enticing to Amazon and its employees would be rail *rapid* transit. If that's the case, cities like Chicago (CTA L & Metra), Philadelphia (SEPTA), and perhaps Atlanta (MARTA) might have a leg up on other cities with just buses or rail that doesn't have the reach or service level of the rail networks in those larger cities (e.g. Austin, Research Triangle, Detroit, etc). When you look at the mobility issues in Seattle due to decades of delayed investment in mass transit beyond buses (they're finally making big strides now), Amazon may prefer a city with already mature mass transit infrastructure in place race than deal with decades of expansion headaches.
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 7:01 PM
YSL YSL is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Austin
Posts: 321
I know it's the uncool thing to say, since it already has too much, but New York makes the best sense.

It ticks every one of their boxes. If you read the press release, Amazon wants 'mass transit on site.' New York has that. Amazon wants diversity. NYC has that. Amazon wants somewhere full of culture and attractive to highly educated/compensated people. That's certainly New York. It wants somewhere with talent. New York has an endless stream of talent. NYC is a prestigious HQ address, it's on the East Coast (I highly doubt they would pick a city that is near Seattle). It's expensive but millennials will shack up 5 in a room just to live in NYC. It's not particularly 'business friendly', but it does have the most fortune 500 companies of any city and does offer lots of technology related tax breaks (Amazon will probably pay no taxes there). Aetna just moved to NYC, and I'm sure they get tons of tax breaks.

The Hudson Yards development in Manhattan would make the best sense.
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 7:08 PM
emathias's Avatar
emathias emathias is offline
Adoptive Chicagoan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 4,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by YSL View Post
I know it's the uncool thing to say, since it already has too much, but New York makes the best sense.
...
The Hudson Yards development in Manhattan would make the best sense.
Cost of doing business in Manhattan is very high, though. A lot of tech work that serves Manhattan, even for well-paid software engineers, get pushed to New Jersey if it starts to eat up any significant square footage.

I think if they chose the NY area they'd look at Jersey City or, maybe, downtown Brooklyn.

But I personally think they're going to avoid cities that are more expensive than Seattle. I agree that they'll look at New York, but they are at the stage that they need to hire a lot more experienced engineers, too, and even at Amazon salaries, anyone above 30 isn't going to be nearly as excited about New York as 20-something hipsters with no spouse, no kids, and still starry-eyed about the world. While there are still a few people my age (43) among the software workers I know who would gladly move to New York, there is always the caveat of "if I was paid enough to be able to enjoy it" and that "enough" is usually $200k for childless people and $300k for people with kids. Some of Amazon employees will absolutely be paid those kinds of numbers. But nowhere near a majority of them will. The same applies to San Francisco, although I think the fact that it's on the West Coast and violently competitive for talent already rule it out from being shortlisted. I think Chicago stands a good chance, and that the Research Triangle, Atlanta, Philly, maybe Denver, and one or more of the big Texas cities will also get hard looks. Boston might, but stringing together enough square footage would be a challenge, it's also more expensive than Seattle and Amazon is big enough it will make it even more expensive, and it's international airport connections are relatively sparse compared to a lot of other contenders. Minneapolis might make the first cut, but I think its culture is too similar to Seattle's - I think Amazon will want progressive, but of a different culture than Seattle, and Seattle and the Twin Cities have a lot in common culturally - for some companies that might be a selling point, but I think Amazon is looking to diversify in that sense to give employees more of a choice. I think this will be a competition between one Texas city (which one, I don't know - maybe whichever one promises the most transit), Atlanta, Philly, and Chicago. Denver, Cleveland (people forget it has heavy rail transit), the Research Triangle, and Miami could be dark horses, but I wouldn't bet on it.
__________________
I like travel and photography - check out my Flickr page.
My current active camera gear: Nikon D750, Nikon 14-24mm f2.8 zoom, Nikon 85mm f1.8G, Nikon 50mm f1.4D, Nikon 70-300mm f4-5.6, Nikkor 135mm f3.5 manual focus, Nikkor 55mm f3.5 manual focus, Nikon PB-4 Bellows. Collectible gear: Nikon F4s, Nikon D1, Nikon N4004s (my very first SLR)

Last edited by emathias; Sep 7, 2017 at 7:19 PM.
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 7:09 PM
James Bond Agent 007's Avatar
James Bond Agent 007 James Bond Agent 007 is offline
Posh
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
Posts: 18,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by YSL View Post
I know it's the uncool thing to say, since it already has too much, but New York makes the best sense.

It ticks every one of their boxes. If you read the press release, Amazon wants 'mass transit on site.' New York has that. Amazon wants diversity. NYC has that. Amazon wants somewhere full of culture and attractive to highly educated/compensated people. That's certainly New York. It wants somewhere with talent. New York has an endless stream of talent. NYC is a prestigious HQ address, it's on the East Coast (I highly doubt they would pick a city that is near Seattle). It's expensive but millennials will shack up 5 in a room just to live in NYC. It's not particularly 'business friendly', but it does have the most fortune 500 companies of any city and does offer lots of technology related tax breaks (Amazon will probably pay no taxes there). Aetna just moved to NYC, and I'm sure they get tons of tax breaks.

The Hudson Yards development in Manhattan would make the best sense.
However, it seems clear one of Amazon's main reasons for not doing it in Seattle is because Seattle is getting expensive. That being the case, another city even more expensive than Seattle probably isn't in the cards. For that reason, just about anywhere in California is probably not going to be considered either.
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 7:16 PM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: D.C.
Posts: 3,125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
I hate this type of corporate welfare and hope that Amazon picks the best city for their needs not whatever city/state offers the largest incentive package.
They're often one in the same though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnk View Post
I'm ruling out states that went Trump.
Seeing things in terms of red state/blue state in very Trumpian... meaning, very surface-level, with a lack of understanding or consideration of detail and nuance.
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 7:16 PM
OhioGuy OhioGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Uptown, Chicago
Posts: 7,113
I wonder about DC. Proximity to government for executives in a potential East Coasr hub could be enticing. A redevelopment of the tracks at Union Station includes many new office buildings, which could conceivably become a campus for Amazon. It has good mass transit connections with MARC, VRE, Amtrak, and Metro's red line. Plenty of big universities in DC too, such as Georgetown, George Washington, and American University.
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 7:22 PM
YSL YSL is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Austin
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGuy View Post
I wonder about DC. Proximity to government for executives in a potential East Coasr hub could be enticing. A redevelopment of the tracks at Union Station includes many new office buildings, which could conceivably become a campus for Amazon. It has good mass transit connections with MARC, VRE, Amtrak, and Metro's red line. Plenty of big universities in DC too, such as Georgetown, George Washington, and American University.
Jeff Bezos is being dragged into politics (with the WaPo, and the one-sided feud with our stupid president).

I highly doubt he's yearning to be even more entrenched in Washington, DC.
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 7:26 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,455
Quote:
Originally Posted by emathias View Post
But I personally think they're going to avoid cities that are more expensive than Seattle.
Reading their RFP that's the impression I get. They seem to be cognizant they've caused an issue in Seattle with affordability nor do they want to overspend for their own project (or worse have it delayed for any reason). Boston and NYC fail handily on that count alone along with anywhere on the west coast. A lot of the DC metro isn't far behind.

I think it's Phllly if east coast. Otherwise Atlanta/Chicago versus TX.
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 7:36 PM
austlar1 austlar1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
The first 2 cities that came to mind were actually Austin (where every other tech firm is going nowadays) or the Research Triangle. Boston would make sense but Amazons entire business model is based on cutting costs everywhere they can so I assume they would prefer a lower costing area.
The numbers being bandied about are a little silly. No one needs 8 million square feet for a non HQ office these days. Or employs 50K people in a single non-HQ or even full HQ office. Apple and Microsoft massive HQ campuses don't employ anywhere near that much. Apples is like 12k. Microsoft employs only 30k at its HQ that is actually 8 million sq ft.
I think Austin is out of the running because one of the requirements is a politically progressive local government, which presumably includes the state government. Austin's progressive municipal government is constantly under attack by the reactionary forces that run the state government. Also, transit options are totally inadequate per the requirements mentioned in the announcement. I just hope Austin is able to hold on to the Whole Foods HQ site. It seems like that is one of the things that might get consolidated in a second Amazon HQ operation.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:43 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.