Metrolinx - MoveOntario 2020

[Jon Dalton]

They can't move away from Hunter St. without pissing alot of people off, including me. I moved to the GO station's backyard for a reason. There's also everyone who bought in the Chateau Royale and commutes, as well as homeowners in Durand and Corktown. The Piggott building and the one next to it are also walking distance to Hunter. Around the CN tracks, there's really nothing comparable.

They invested millions to switch to Hunter St. in the first place, why, to allow for more service. That never really happened. They added one train. GO is allowed 20 trains a day through the tunnel, all they have to do is build the storage yard and stop wasting their tunnel passes running deadheads back to Toronto.

The James North station makes perfect sense for the time, as a VIA station. Addidtional GO trains could run there until they complete the Hunter St. tunnel and run proper GO service there. It makes way less sense to have GO buses and trains at different stations and require a 25 minute walk just to transfer on the same system. Very few people if any would arrive in Hamilton on a GO train to transfer to a VIA train to Niagara. They would be on VIA in the first place.

As for being too close to Aldershot, that's simple. Niagara trains would not stop at Aldershot. Windsor trains would still use it, because it's as close to Hamilton as they can get. If they ever get enough demand to run trains from Niagara through to Windsor, they would stop in Hamilton, connecting us to the corridor without the pain in the ass trip to Aldershot.

[Jon Dalton]

Sad day for transit, eh?

Well the initial outlay of funds is only $25 million towards BRT. As to how the hell you could even spend $160 million on buses and bus lanes, they will have to find some creative ways to waste that money. In the meantime, isn't it still worthwhile to campaign for LRT since the real money won't come for a couple of years?

[DC83]

^^ $60million for the busses/lanes, $100million to the bureaucrats! I'm pretty sure that's how it works in Hamilton.

[fastcarsfreedom]

This is absolutely classic--years of complaints of no funding for the city for transit and now you don't want the money they are providing?

Did anyone open their eyes and realize that these debates over where these new services will go are really good problems to have?

The self-loathing, negative, entitled attitude that permeates every discussion here really is indicitive of the vocal minority that has long existed in Hamilton and has held-back a true renaissance for decades. Government and private interests show up with money but this 'city' whether it's the NIMBY crowd or the political crowd insist that the money be spent "there way" or else they don't want it. It's utterly and completely unbelievable--what if this money were all going to Peel, York and Durham for BRT and nothing was coming to Hamilton--what would you be saying then?

[fastcarsfreedom]

As for expanded GO service into the city--that has been a promise for at least 20 years as far back as I can remember. You'll recall that all-day GO train service extended into Burlington in the early 1990s--and that construction at Aldershot and TH&B was designed to accomodate further expansion of service westward. When the Bob Rae government completely convinced itself that the provincial treasury might be insolvent, the GO service was cut back drastically--though the downstream stations were accordingly completely.

I acknowledge that the Aldershot station is about as warm and inviting as a wet sock--but it's presence and inclusion in the GO system is vital. If you consider the current growth in both Aldershot and Waterdown--that station is going to consistently get busier as the years pass and the population spikes. All of those cars that pack that parking lot are going to be cars that are not on the QEW--seems to me that's a positive. VIAs operation there is more of a quirk than anything--obviously it assumed Hamilton's role on the Toronto-New York line, and actually brought service on the Windsor-Toronto line closer--at least since the Dundas station was abandoned--and that's going back at least 20 years also. As far as I can remember, travelling to London to Windsor prior to Aldershot meant either driving to Brantford or Burlington, or taking VIA into Burlington or Oakville and connecting.

Seriously--if there is GO service in two places downtown, isnt that better than the status quo?

[SteelTown]

Initial Bus Rapid Transit Implementation

East-West Lower City (14 km @$1 M/km)) Short term $14,000,000

Central North-South Corridor (6.5 km @$10 M/km) Medium term $65,000,000

East-West Mountain (14 km @ $5 M/km) Long term $70,000,000

Other Corridors Long term $10,000,000

Sub-total $159,000,000

The North-South corridor is James and Upper James route. That corridor is going to have transit lanes in the middle like St. Clair at Toronto. You can see the idea at the report. So really the majority of the cost is towards construction of transit lanes, terminals, etc. I don't mind because it'll be cheap and easy to convert to LRT in the future, just add tracks and new trams.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

This is absolutely classic--years of complaints of no funding for the city for transit and now you don't want the money they are providing?

Did anyone open their eyes and realize that these debates over where these new services will go are really good problems to have?

The self-loathing, negative, entitled attitude that permeates every discussion here really is indicitive of the vocal minority that has long existed in Hamilton and has held-back a true renaissance for decades. Government and private interests show up with money but this 'city' whether it's the NIMBY crowd or the political crowd insist that the money be spent "there way" or else they don't want it. It's utterly and completely unbelievable--what if this money were all going to Peel, York and Durham for BRT and nothing was coming to Hamilton--what would you be saying then?

O my word..."holding back the renaissance"??
We've been too busy subdizing all the rich brats in the suburbs the past 30 years to be worrying about (or being able to afford) our 'renaissance'.
You made a bunch of comments here I don't agree with, but since you don't live here I won't bother.
I guess your idea of a renaissance is all the wonderful development along the Linc and 403 in Ancaster eh?? Don't worry..much more is coming on the east Mountain.

We're all stating our opinion on how 160 million should be spent...Hamilton is famous for wasting money (aka Red Hill). I realize you live in a casino town so wasting money is a regular past-time, but forgive some of us for actually wanting a proper transit system for Hamilton.
More citizens like the folks on this forum would do wonders at city hall...maybe then we'd see the seeds of a renaissance planted instead of more crap in the burbs on the backs of urban taxpayers.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Initial Bus Rapid Transit Implementation

East-West Lower City (14 km @$1 M/km)) Short term $14,000,000

Central North-South Corridor (6.5 km @$10 M/km) Medium term $65,000,000

East-West Mountain (14 km @ $5 M/km) Long term $70,000,000

Other Corridors Long term $10,000,000

Sub-total $159,000,000

The North-South corridor is James and Upper James route. That corridor is going to have transit lanes in the middle like St. Clair at Toronto. You can see the idea at the report. So really the majority of the cost is towards construction of transit lanes, terminals, etc. I don't mind because it'll be cheap and easy to convert to LRT in the future, just add tracks and new trams.

could you link to this report?? I must be reading the wrong ones.
Thx.

[flar]

They're spending $10M/km on the N-S route and $5M/km on the other mountian route, which are both destined to be BRT long term. That should make a nice BRT system on the Mountain connecting to a downtown terminal via James, and this hopefully will happen in the short term. Only $1M/km on the lower city route, hopefully because the other $300M+ will be going toward LRT down there over the long term.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

Seriously--if there is GO service in two places downtown, isnt that better than the status quo?

Seriously -- no.


Two GO train stations serving the same area but at different times and with different connection nodes - how is this better? If additional trains are offered at a station not easily accessible without increasing overall commuting time, there is no benefit to having the additional service.

Successful transit requires a central multi-modal hub. A city of our size with two hubs is setting the service up for failure.

Hamiltonians far too often shrug their shoulders and accept the crumbs thrown their way thinking 'hey, it's better than nothing'. We shouldn't simply accept mediocrity - we should demand better. After all, it is our tax dollars funding these projects, isn't it?

One other thing, to correctly recount history, cuts to GO Transit service in the early 1990's was part of Rae's Social Contract and were a temporary measure, much as the infamous civil servant Rae Days were temporary. When the Harris Conservatives defeated the Rae NDP government, they decided to make the GO service cuts permanent. This decision was then reversed by the McGuinty Liberals once they gained power.

[Jon Dalton]

Peoples' cynicism here is not the cause of our problems. It's the other way around. Those who follow municipal affairs in Hamilton witness the most piss poor decisions being made on a daily basis.

The transit money is being handed to us to create rapid transit lines. The details of its implementation are largely the city's responsibility. Toronto planned light rail lines for its future, so when the money comes, that's what they will do with it.

Mississauga, for christ's sake is even planning and LRT line. All this noise about LRT really started when the funding was already announced. What was previously only a dream, was suddenly a realistic option. Our city didn't even consider it.

I for one, appreciate raisethehammer's sarcastic comments and feel they are called for.

[raisethehammer]

I appreciate that, but I wasn't being sarcastic. You're exactly right Jon...the crap at city hall is the reason for Hamilton's puddle jumping.

I have no problem with BRT on the Mountain....but LRT should be used on the east/west line. Let's hope they are at least researching it behind the scenes...frig, doing research on LRT these days is simple. Mind you, nothing is simple at city hall.

[SteelTown]

Central North-South Corridor (6.5 km @$10 M/km) Medium term $65,000,000

[raisethehammer]

Oh those...thx for posting.
yea, I remember seeing them before. I just assumed they were there for reference and not actual ideas of what they plan to do.
I think that would be great for Upper James.
There are sites you can go online and see really modern versions of BRT. Heck, even www.newflyer.com , the company that makes our artics, has a really stylish BRT vehicle..much cooler than ours, with doors on both sides.

The escarpment climb would make LRT on the mountain a bit tricky...but again, not to beat a dead horse (and sadly it sounds like it may be dead) but LRT is the way to go in the lower city.

[SteelTown]

One reason why it's $14 million for East/West corridor and $65 million for North/South corridor is because for the East/West corridor the rapid transit line will go along Main and King making a circle. That's not the case for James and Upper James, it'll be up and down on James so it has to have a median transit lane therefore a higher cost associated.

[SteelTown]

GTTA is getting renamed as MetroLinx.

http://www.metrolinx.com/default.aspx

[raisethehammer]

hmmm...interesting name. at least they chose a name that doesn't have the word 'Toronto' in it. i'm surprised they were allowed to. haha

[vid]

Are they going to apply that name to GO or just have it as the department name?

[matt602]

It's staying as GO Transit. Metrolinx is just the consultation/planning department for the region.

[SteelTown]

^ GTTA or MetroLinx operates GO Transit though. So perhaps GO Transit will change it's name.