How likely is it for you to encounter people who haven't been to the US?

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

So, two contrasting groups of people have been talked about who have not visited the US.

One, involves very small town, far-from-the-border, people who were native-born Canadians for generations, but have rarely travelled outside their zone of familiarity.

The other involves big-city dwelling folks who are first generation immigrants that though living in very diverse and multicultural cities, have also rarely travelled outside their zone of familiarity.

Which one is more likely?

Here's an idea, what if a bunch of the native-born Canadian small town folks who have never visited the US (be they Maritimers, rural northerners, Quebecois or whatever), and the big-city, first generation immigrant folks who have never visited the US meet up together and go on a group trip to the US, but rent a big van or bus decked up with maple leaves, and other Canadian symbols, like landscape and wildlife paintings of moose and beaver and snow, and mountains etc.

The small town Canucks who've never been stateside and first-gen immigrant Canucks who've never been stateside can both forge a common bond on the trip, and begin to see themselves as fellow travellers and when Americans ask, they can all clamor amongst themselves that they're a busload of Canuck friends checking out and visiting their friendly neighbours across the border (even though the Canadians themselves literally only met one another a few hours ago before departure).

When the travellers return to Canada, they come back with a strong sense of Canadian identity, rather than the weak sense of identity they had before the journey.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

So, two contrasting groups of people have been talked about who have not visited the US.

One, involves very small town, far-from-the-border, people who were native-born Canadians for generations, but have rarely travelled outside their zone of familiarity.

The other involves big-city dwelling folks who are first generation immigrants that though living in very diverse and multicultural cities, have also rarely travelled outside their zone of familiarity.

Which one is more likely?

Remember, these are just internet guesses. I'm not sure how many people here go around asking everybody they meet "Have you been to the united states?".

Only 60% of Canadians have passports, and I imagine that recent immigrants are almost wholly represented by that figure, as such, have the freedom to visit south of the border more easily.

People might be surprised how many in their day to day lives have never been south. All these statements like "no one I know hasn't been" seems to ring a little hollow to me.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by wave46

I'm going to say probably the latter.

My argument: Disney World and Las Vegas are huge destinations that are reasonably accessible and have no equivalents in Canada. Thus, even Canadians that are relative homebodies will go at least once in their lives, if nothing else. Call it the trip of a lifetime.

First generation immigrants who may (or may not be) citizens probably have more barriers. Getting a passport might be more challenging, crossing the border can be a hassle and the current climate in the US may deter them. Also, first generation immigrants may use their discretionary income to travel back home for a visit, rather than to a tourist attraction in the US.

But I'm speculating here.

I know non-citizens and even citizens who are foreign-born would have worries or perceive potential problems that could arise, but I wonder if second generation Canadians are likely to feel the same way, so whether there is a big gap between second and third-or-later, or multi-generational Canadians in visits or desires to visit the US.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by geotag277

I think Bloomberg might have been a decent third party candidate, certainly the best since Perot. But then again, he was afraid to run lest Trump be elected. Oops.

Bloomberg would almost certainly have won the election, had Hillary had the good sense to withdraw to avoid dividing the Bloomberg vote.

[Capsicum]

Bernie could have won!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

Cheap hockey tickets mostly.

And Walden Galleria.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by esquire

I suppose if one is rooting for Marxist revolution, then I guess there might be something to cheer for here.

But personally I'm not one for the "gotta break a few eggs" philosophy. A lot of lives are going to be ruined as the staggering divide between haves and have nots in the US is about to get a lot worse. And that's not even getting into the social turmoil being generated.

All I can say is that burning the house down to start over again is an easy thing to cheer for if you don't have to live in that house.

It's a little less "burn my pretties!" than all that. In 2016 I felt that the US foreign policy tack of the post-9/11 era was too monstrously, severely flawed to justify a dynastic candidate from either the Bush or Clinton line.

For dynastic candidates to be viable, the dynasty's record would have to be a lot better than Iraq/Libya/Syria.

I am encouraged by the routing of ISIS in Syria although I have severe concerns about many of Trump's policies, particularly the standard-issue Republican ones. It was time to throw the bums out, though, and electing a reality TV loudmouth was one way to very massively signal their unacceptability.

Electing the Secretary of State during the Libyan coup was not. I'm pretty much an anti-Iraq type from the Bush era who held on to those grievances through the Obama reign, and if the ostensible left weren't going to defy longstanding foreign policy norms, well then why not try the populist right? Aleppo is filling up again.

Anyway, I'll let this this thread continue on its regular tack without further derails.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I am encouraged by the routing of ISIS in Syria although I have severe concerns about many of Trump's policies, particularly the standard-issue Republican ones. It was time to throw the bums out, though, and electing a reality TV loudmouth was one way to very massively signal their unacceptability.

Good points.


On the foreign policy front I would also be concerned about the Saudi Arabia / Yemen / Iran issue, much more so than say, North Korea. Although it began under "drone strike" Obama, the explicit American support in the brutal Yemen campaign has intensified under Trump (despite the Saudi's complete incompetence as a fighting force). Now the announcement of breaking the embargo after the Saudi's got mad about Jerusalem? It's all very strange.

Lots of saber rattling wrt Iran and cozying up to the Saudi's otherwise. I have serious doubts about MBS' supposed "moderate" bent, which is something the American political class has fetishized for decades (can find dozens of old NYT articles about it dating back to the 70s). Meanwhile, if anything Iran is much closer to a moderate Middle Eastern country (obviously not by our standards) that has shown good faith in sticking to the nuclear deal. One of Obama's actual achievements on the foreign policy front.

There's a lot of pent up anger in the old guard military elite towards Iran and these people seem to have Trump's ear - these guys need to go as well. And he seems to have a grudge towards anything with Obama's name on it. Maybe his unpredictability will be a plus here? Or maybe not. Any form of conflict with Iran will not go well.


As you probably know I'm more for a leftist solution and increasingly frustrated with centrists propping up the status quo / failing to stand up for anything. But yes, off topic...

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And Walden Galleria.

Don't forget the Niagara outlet malls!! I do wonder how these establishments are doing with the low Canadian dollar - every time I've been the parking lots seem to be over half Ontario plates.

I also have traveled to Buffalo for craft beer but I'm weird and base trips around that.

[esquire]

In today's Winnipeg Free Press, there's a story about a recent poll which showed that some Manitobans are apparently staying away from the US because of Trump.

32% of Manitobans made good on vow to snub U.S.: poll

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...462467003.html

Shortly after Donald Trump was elected president of the United States in 2016, nearly one-third of Manitobans said they’d be less likely to vacation in the U.S. because of the political climate there.

A year later, it turns out they’ve followed through on their self-imposed travel ban, a new Winnipeg Free Press/Probe Research survey suggests.

When asked late last year if they had cancelled or decided against a trip to the United States in the past six months because of the political climate, 29 per cent of Manitobans who took part in the survey said they would be less likely to vacation south of the border. A followup survey this year found about one-third (32 per cent) of respondents did cancel or reconsider travel plans to the United States in recent months because of the political climate.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the number would be way lower if the C$ was north of US$0.95.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by niwell

Don't forget the Niagara outlet malls!! I do wonder how these establishments are doing with the low Canadian dollar - every time I've been the parking lots seem to be over half Ontario plates.

I also have traveled to Buffalo for craft beer but I'm weird and base trips around that.

Is that place in Buffalo still around for unusual beer that had a life size ceramic horse on the sidewalk outside the store.

I remember going to a brew pub in Amherst that was completely covered with peanut shells on the floor. The beer was OK but the ambience wasn't my thing.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

Is that place in Buffalo still around for unusual beer that had a life size ceramic horse on the sidewalk outside the store.

I don't remember the horse but that could have been the Blue Monk? It was the best beer place in the city for a while. It closed and reopened almost exactly the same under the name "727". Seems to be closed now unfortunately.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by niwell

I don't remember the horse but that could have been the Blue Monk? It was the best beer place in the city for a while. It closed and reopened almost exactly the same under the name "727". Seems to be closed now unfortunately.

https://goo.gl/maps/Gj3Ev6Zg6Sv

This is the place..Frontier Liquor

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by niwell

Lots of saber rattling wrt Iran and cozying up to the Saudi's otherwise. I have serious doubts about MBS' supposed "moderate" bent, which is something the American political class has fetishized for decades (can find dozens of old NYT articles about it dating back to the 70s).

Well in fairness women being allowed to drive and the fact previous empty rhetoric reformers like Al-Waleed bin Talal who were obstinately closely allied with the West are under arrest have to be two of the most explosive moderate reformations I've ever seen.

Originally Posted by niwell

Meanwhile, if anything Iran is much closer to a moderate Middle Eastern country (obviously not by our standards) that has shown good faith in sticking to the nuclear deal. One of Obama's actual achievements on the foreign policy front.

Obama's foreign policy win there glossed over Iran's extremely close relationship with Russia. Hillary presenting Russia with a reset button literally months after they invaded Georgia is generally indicative of Obama's foreign policy failures with respect to Russia.

There should have been a strategic plan to integrate Iran's economy more with the West and distance them from Russia via sanctions over Ukraine. Instead they handed them a boatload of money and lifted sanctions almost unconditionally. It was a bad deal and had echoes of the West turning their backs during the fall of the Soviet Union and the democratisation of Russia.

It smelt very much like an ego deal to contribute to Obama's legacy versus a sensible geopolitical move to make.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by ue

I always find cases like this interesting. Why is it you don't go to the US? Kingston is right on the border, after all...

For me, it's quite simple. I don't have a car. And without a car, the US requires flying to get to. And I'm flying, I might as well go to Europe which I find a much more interesting place to visit.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

For me, it's quite simple. I don't have a car. And without a car, the US requires flying to get to. And I'm flying, I might as well go to Europe which I find a much more interesting place to visit.

I think it's probably because you don't have an attractive major city just south of you like we do in Vancouver, you just have the rust belt. Many people without cars here have been to Seattle and Portland, etc.. We have busses and trains too.

[isaidso]

Not common to meet people who haven't been to the US although I meet lots of people who haven't been in a very long time. When I was staying in a border town for a few weeks I made short hops across the border a few times. If it wasn't for that, it would have been 26 years since I visited the US.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Architype

I think it's probably because you don't have an attractive major city just south of you like we do in Vancouver, you just have the rust belt. Many people without cars here have been to Seattle and Portland, etc.. We have busses and trains too.

The Northeast corridor actually isn't that far from here; from Kingston it's only about a 6 hour drive to New York City. But there's no bus or train connections across the border in the Kingston area; I'd have to go to Montreal or Toronto to get those and by then we're talking about one hell of a detour.

[lio45]

For the record, crossing the border went as smoothly as usual this week. Turned out the customs officer who was on duty knew me already (from previous crossings) so we chatted a bit about my black walnuts, he didn't bother getting out of his booth, let alone looking at anything I may have had inside the car (or my phone).

Can't help but suspect people who get their phones checked have to be doing something special.

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by lio45

Can't help but suspect people who get their phones checked have to be doing something special.

Yes, if "something special" is a euphemism for being muslim.