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  #261  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 1:08 PM
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I guess that I can see where the Main and King reasoning is coming from but why is Kirkendall full of one way streets? I would love to have my street converted to two way.
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  #262  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 1:23 PM
CaptainKirk CaptainKirk is offline
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Originally Posted by bigguy1231 View Post
The Linc wasn't intended to move traffic from the lower city to the 403 and QEW. As for King and Main St. they are being used exactly as they were intended, moving traffic through the lower city as efficiently as possible.
You comments seems to imply that any way two conversion would result in the cessation of moving traffic.

Of course it won't. A few more minutes is a very small price to pay for the intended benefits. It's all about a proper, healthy and equitable balance that improves the lower city and quality of life.
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  #263  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 2:03 PM
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Originally Posted by pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce View Post
^That's not really enough, though, is it? I mean, that's not even a half-measure - more like an eighth measure.
No, it's not enough but eliminating the synchronized street lighting is a quick, cheap and simple solution. Eventually traffic will wilt away and than councilors will start to wonder why are there so many lanes?! It’s a one step at a time process.

Think I read a report last week from the LRT report that it would cost nearly $100 million alone to upgrade and fix the infrastructure for King and Main St. That doesn’t include the cost associated with LRT, tracks and stuff.
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  #264  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 2:20 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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Originally Posted by bigguy1231 View Post
As for King and Main St. they are being used exactly as they were intended, moving traffic through the lower city as efficiently as possible.
Main and King were built as business districts LONG before they were made into one-way through ways with maximized flow rates. So no, they are not being used as originally intended.
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  #265  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 2:29 PM
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if you live in the lower city you should take Burlington or the LINC, or even backtracking to the Skyway to get to the QEW. The highway options are a lot more distance but at the speed you go it's almost as quick. A person in Westdale should never be considering Main as their crosstown option. That's why cities build ring roads. They are meant for bypass trips. Anyway aside from the LINC, Burlington st is both more direct and quicker than Main, and once traffic synchronization is ended most of the traffic would go the.
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  #266  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
Think I read a report last week from the LRT report that it would cost nearly $100 million alone to upgrade and fix the infrastructure for King and Main St. That doesn’t include the cost associated with LRT, tracks and stuff.
I'm sure we could find a way to spend $100M on that but really, all we need is some paint and a few more lights at intersections.

And the one-step-at-a-time routine in this city has grown very old. Council is scared of its own shadow...it's really pathetic.
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  #267  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 3:43 PM
CaptainKirk CaptainKirk is offline
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Originally Posted by durandy View Post
if you live in the lower city you should take Burlington or the LINC, or even backtracking to the Skyway to get to the QEW. The highway options are a lot more distance but at the speed you go it's almost as quick. A person in Westdale should never be considering Main as their crosstown option. That's why cities build ring roads. They are meant for bypass trips. Anyway aside from the LINC, Burlington st is both more direct and quicker than Main, and once traffic synchronization is ended most of the traffic would go the.
Agreed 100%


I live near Eastgate square, and pretty much drive everywhere, and have no problem with King and Main being converted two way.

My wife works downtown, and we go downtown often. A few extra minutes of slower, calmer driving are well worth the benefits.

And, as you say, we often use the LINC/RHVP and Burlington St as quick crosstown routes as they were originally intended to be used.
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  #268  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 3:51 PM
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From the Spectator, 1956 after the two-way conversion of King and Main to one-way

Quote:
Roads Become Race Tracks, Traffic Committee Told

Members of the Transportation and Traffic Committee, sitting last night in a committee room packed with business men from areas affected by one-way streets, heard requests for major changes in the system.

Decreasing business returns, the refusal of old customers to visit the stores, large numbers of heavy trucks passing through the downtown area, the alleged conversion of King Street into a highway - all these and many other subjects were hurled at the committee by protesting businessmen from King Street East and West, James Street North, and York Street.

Vested Interest

In the latter connection, Manuel Zack (who appealed for a temporary reversion of York Street to two-way some weeks ago, and won his appeal only to see the City Council rescind its first decision) accused Wilbur Smith and Association of having a "vested interest" in Hamilton [sic] one-way system.

"This man, this expert from somewhere in Connecticut, stands to lose face throughout this continent if our one-way system is abandoned because it doesn't work well," Mr. Zack declared.

"It is beginning to look as if there is only one God and Wilbur Smith is His prophet!"

After two hours of submissions, arguments, appeals and threats by some business men to demand relief from their businesses assessments if nothing were dont to help their falling profits, the committee cleared the room and decided to consider Wilbur Smith's latest report on the system, and to hold a general meeting.

Wide Attendance

The meeting would be attended by representatives of all those bodies which were originally called in to assist in the introduction of the one-way system, including the HSR, the HAA, the Hamilton Safety League, the police, the downtown businessmen, and so on.

The discussion started when Alderman Joseph Lanza, chairman asked all the groups present to express themselves via one spokesman, and to address the chair rather than any single committee member.

Walter Wright, for James Street North business proprietors, said that in the first week of the new system, his own business lost 150 customers based on previous figures.

"And I can prove that by printed figures of transactions as recorded on my case register," he declared.

"We understood that the system [unreadable] to relieve traffic [text cut off]."

[...]

"You mean, if one wants merchandise, one visits the store most easily reached?" suggested Alderman Ramsey Evans, and Mr. Wright agreed.

Ben Wunder, representing King Street East businessmen, made a lengthy speech that was applauded by all delegates present.

"Once upon a time, my part of King Street was a leading shopping district," Mr. Wunder said. "Business has taken quite a drop. Many of my old customers are no longer to be seen - they telephone me and say they are sorry, they will not come any more, because the traffic is too heavy and there is nowhere to park. They send money by mail.

No Time To Look

"Many of us spent a lot of money on new store fronts," he went on. "It was futile. Our windows are no good nowadays, people have no time to stop and look. Nobody comes from the west end of the city any more. We would like to see King Street two-way once more.

"You people are supposed to be working for the people ... [sic] well, we are the people, too, and of what good is King Street without merchants? It seems as if everything possible has been done to take people away from King Street East!"

"Is there any evidence of customers who are said to be expressing regret at their inability to visit the store?" Alderman Evans asked. "Any letters from these people who are sending money by mail, and who cannot park?"

"I fail to see the use of such evidence, but if it's the letters you want, or signatures..."

"No, Mr. Wunder," Alderman Evans interrupted. "I want to (Continued on page 8, column 4).

Largest Stores Support System

More controversial than the federal elections - noisier than the starlings that besmirch their buildings - the marathon one-way street battles continued today among downtown merchants. Hamilton's largest department stores today signaled their approval of the basic system.

Of a representative group of merchants in the Mary-to-Walnut street area (where King Street is narrowest), 70 percent yesterday indicated disfavour with the present setup.

Major Kicks

The major complaints were that the westbound traffic moves by at too great a rate of speed [text cut off]

[...]

slackening off of regular customers on the one-way system, now in operation for nearly seven months.

"We have to go back to the old setup," he said, "because it's the only solution."

Dan Adler, owner of Adler's Furniture House, was vociferous in his condemnation of the one-way system.

Close At Four?

"We might as well close up shop at four o'clock," he commented. "People can't park on this side of the street between four and six, and the traffic is going too fast to permit safe parking at other hours."

The city recently installed a [text cut off]
http://www.raisethehammer.org/blog/1...ne-way_streets
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  #269  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2013, 3:58 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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For those currently addicted to driving through town as fast as possible, all human history started in 1956.
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  #270  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 7:31 AM
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Give it a break. If anyone tries to speed through the downtown at any speed over 50km they will get stuck at every stop light in the downtown. I know this because I use Main street everyday from the 403 to the Clairmont Access. I drive it at night when there is little traffic and if I go over 50 km I get stuck at lights. During the day it would be worse with traffic. The synchronization does not enable anyone to speed through the downtown, it only allows traffic to flow at reasonable speeds. 50 kph is the standard speed in pretty well all cities in North America.
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  #271  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 9:18 AM
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And there's the problem - 50 km/h isn't a reasonable speed. You'd know that if you ever got out of your car and walked along Main, King or any of the others. Five lanes of traffic going 50+ km/h isn't good for downtown but then you don't live there do you? Nope.
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  #272  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 1:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguy1231 View Post
Give it a break. If anyone tries to speed through the downtown at any speed over 50km they will get stuck at every stop light in the downtown. I know this because I use Main street everyday from the 403 to the Clairmont Access. I drive it at night when there is little traffic and if I go over 50 km I get stuck at lights. During the day it would be worse with traffic. The synchronization does not enable anyone to speed through the downtown, it only allows traffic to flow at reasonable speeds. 50 kph is the standard speed in pretty well all cities in North America.
Except for the people on the tail end of the green wave who speed up to 60 so they don't fall out the end...

Also, I find the lights are synced closer to 55km/h, but maybe those 5km/h don't make that much of a timing distance over those few klicks.
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  #273  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 2:19 PM
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I drive it every day. Don't think 50kmh would get you through the rush of timed green lights without stopping. I'll check it next time.

If I have to two stop at 3,4 to 5 red lights to see a marked improvement in the livable and walkabale aspect of the downtown and lower city, then I'm more than willing.

A few extra minutes is no big deal! I don't get this sense of entitlement to have a perfectly timed, fast as possible, expressway through the heart of our city.

Last edited by CaptainKirk; Mar 1, 2013 at 2:42 PM.
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  #274  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 6:29 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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The same people who complain about our high taxes throw a conniption when any proposal comes forward that threatens their ability to drive through the city as fast as possible. The bad news for them is that reality doesn't allow for these two desires to co-exist.

The ONLY way for us to get our taxes under control is to have more dwelling units and more businesses in the same physical land area.

No matter how we accomplish this, the result is going to be more people, meaning more congestion - especially downtown.

Toronto is great, "except for the traffic". But without that traffic, Toronto would look just like Hamilton.
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  #275  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 6:35 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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Originally Posted by CaptainKirk View Post
I drive it every day. Don't think 50kmh would get you through the rush of timed green lights without stopping. I'll check it next time.
You can comfortably go 45 and hit mostly greens. The problem is, you can also comfortably go 65-70 and hit all the greens if you start at the tail end of a green. I don't care about people saying "i only go 50", because that person's actions mean nothing. Unless we can stop those maniacs who race from a yellow to get to the front of the pack, our roads will continue to be terrible places to live, work or walk.

Everyone walks during the beginning and end of their trip, no matter what mode they use. Wouldn't it be nice if the middle of our city was treated as an end point instead of a path to another place?

The system is fundamentally flawed for any application other than long distance through traffic. By being super efficient at just one task, the result is a wholly inefficient transportation system.
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  #276  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2013, 7:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bigguy1231 View Post
Give it a break. If anyone tries to speed through the downtown at any speed over 50km they will get stuck at every stop light in the downtown.
Apparently this guy managed:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ing-trial.html
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  #277  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2013, 10:48 PM
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This is in no way sensationlism

I have to vent this one...

In October of 2012 I wrote a letter to Bernie Morelli and copied his office in the hopes to spur action of traffic changes or calming to Victoria Ave. I warned of the dangers of having frequent accidents and near misses of children crossing from J.C. Beemer Park. There used to be a school on that property, but since it was removed, traffic speed limits have increased!!!! The city has since installed a water sprinkler park and cleaned up the play ground to attract more kids! I never even got a reply to my letter.

While exiting my house this morning, a little girl under the age of five was hit by a Maroon Lexus SUV while crossing Victoria Ave North at Wilson. She was bleeding from her head, but alive thank god. What can I do to promote a change? I'm am desperate for a solution as my words fall on apparant deaf ears.

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  #278  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 12:49 AM
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Terrible. And you can be sure the coppers are subtly laying the blame at the mother's feet. It's never the driver's fault, afterall.

Along those lines, it's a shame we can't get the police on side for two-way/ complete streets - not really part of their modus operandi, however.
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  #279  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 3:01 PM
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Send that image to the mainstream media in #HamOnt, and to all the councillors and the mayor. Public shaming is the recourse at the moment.
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  #280  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce View Post
Terrible. And you can be sure the coppers are subtly laying the blame at the mother's feet. It's never the driver's fault, afterall.

Along those lines, it's a shame we can't get the police on side for two-way/ complete streets - not really part of their modus operandi, however.
Please. This has nothing to do with the police.
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