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  #11241  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by PLANSIT View Post
^ Those all-electric BYD buses are what's running on the Mall.
Have they been able to catch-up on deliveries and are the buses nice and holding up along the mall?

Rolling in Money


Source

Legislative discussion of road-funding tax and bonding heats up
Mar 20, 2018 by By Ed Sealover – Reporter, Denver Business Journal
Quote:
One day after a quarterly revenue forecast showed that Colorado legislators could have an extra $1.3 billion to spend next year, discussions are in high gear about increasing transportation funding in the state.

Hickenlooper followed that forecast by lawmakers for $500 million in new one-time spending for roads in transit for the fiscal year beginning on July 1 — more than three times the $148 million in new spending he sought in December.
The hill to die on
Democrats are trying to coax Republicans into some compromise that would include a ballot proposal for increased revenue but Republicans are holding hard to their mantra of committing the legislature to 30 years of $300 million per year payments for bonding.
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  #11242  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 5:58 AM
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Ridership - the mother's milk of transit
Comparing specific corridors of RTD with other peer cities

RTD
SE Corridor opened end of 2006 is 19 miles and has weekday ridership of about 42,000. That's as good as it gets. The A Line has weekday ridership of about 18,000

San Diego Trolley
  • Blue Line opened 1981, is 15.4 miles and has wkdy ridership of 52,000
  • Orange Line opened 1986, is 18 miles and has wkdy ridership of 32,000
  • Green Line opened 2005, is 23.6 miles and has wkdy ridership of 38,000

Portland Max
  • Blue Line opened 1986, is 33 miles and has wkdy ridership of 54,000
  • Red Line opened 2001, 26.5 miles and has wkdy ridership of 20,000
  • Yellow Line opened 2004, 5.8 miles and has wkdy ridership of 13,000
  • Green Line opened 2009, and has wkdy ridership of 20,000
  • Orange Line opened 2015, 7.3 miles and has wkdy ridership of 12,000

Twin Cities
  • Blue Line opened 2004, 12 miles and has wkdy ridership of 32,000
  • Green Line opened 2014, 11 miles and has wkdy ridership of 40,000

Valley Metro (Phx)
Light rail opened end of 2008, originally 20 miles now 26 miles and has wkdy ridership of nearly 50,000

It's worth noting that most of the lines listed have been open for 10, 15 to as much as 30 years so I'm not that concerned about RTD's numbers just yet.
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  #11243  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 6:03 AM
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Do you have ridership info for TRAX? I know that the red line is the busiest TRAX line but I don't know how much - I'm curious how it stacks up to those aforementioned cities. And when it refers to "SE corridor" does it refer to ridership only within the corridor or does it refer to all the lines that use the SE corridor? I would say it's a sort-of fair comparison, but don't 3 lines use the corridor? At that point the lines that cover it make up a significant portion of the network.
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  #11244  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jubguy3 View Post
Do you have ridership info for TRAX? I know that the red line is the busiest TRAX line but I don't know how much - I'm curious how it stacks up to those aforementioned cities. And when it refers to "SE corridor" does it refer to ridership only within the corridor or does it refer to all the lines that use the SE corridor? I would say it's a sort-of fair comparison, but don't 3 lines use the corridor? At that point the lines that cover it make up a significant portion of the network.
That includes 4 lines using that corridor. So it's a pretty lousy comparison. It would be better to pull out the E/F Line (this is the one that can be arguably treated as one line), H Line, and R Line separately.
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  #11245  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 4:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
That includes 4 lines using that corridor. So it's a pretty lousy comparison. It would be better to pull out the E/F Line (this is the one that can be arguably treated as one line), H Line, and R Line separately.
Actually, the 42,000 was from before the R Line opened I believe. Given the percentages that I had previously come up with the E&F lines carry about 25,000 while the H Line has ridership of about 17,000. It's possible that some H Liner's transfer to the E Line if they'd prefer DUS but I doubt it amounts to much.
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  #11246  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 4:17 PM
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RTD A-Line is up to 22,500 weekday riders as of October of last year.

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/1...l-grand-award/
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  #11247  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 4:41 PM
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Originally Posted by PLANSIT View Post
RTD A-Line is up to 22,500 weekday riders as of October of last year.

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/1...l-grand-award/
Thanks; I had trouble finding reliable data. Obviously missed the DP article.


Just when you think X will happen, Y happens
http://www.cpr.org/news/story/colora...for-road-money
Quote:
But in a rare evening vote Wednesday, two Republicans broke with their party to support an amendment that re-writes SB18-001 and delays the bond ask to 2019. Republicans Don Coram of Montrose and Owen Hill of Colorado Springs were the ones who bucked their party to get the amendment passed.
This follows all that money that is now available for a short-term infusion. The amendment sets up a path for just one ballot measure for voters to consider if they want to raise taxes in support of transportation infrastructure. My personal preference among Denver Chamber et al choices would be Door 4 that would increase sales taxes by five-tenths percent and also commit the legislature to $150 million per year. Given the politics as well as appearances to voters this looks like the best option to me.
Quote:
What do they get in return? The amendment commits a half a billion dollars in surplus tax revenue next year to new road projects.

"The voters will make the decision whether they want to do this,” Coram said. “It's just my job to give them the opportunity."
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  #11248  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 6:07 PM
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There's a dubious and devious reason for this post

'It's a big deal': C Line to bring bus rapid transit to popular north Minneapolis route
03/19/18 by Peter Callaghan/MinnPost
Quote:
It’s an ambitious plan: Convert the Twin Cities’ most popular bus routes to a newish-to-this-region form of transit. Eleven different routes have been identified as good candidates for arterial bus rapid transit — rubber-tire vehicles and enhanced stations with some of the features that make light rail so popular with riders.
I thought the Twin Cities had already done some BRT?
Quote:
St. Paul was the first to get such service with the A Line that started running in June of 2016. Its distinct buses pick up passengers along Snelling Avenue and Ford Parkway every 10 minutes between the Rosedale Mall and the 46th Avenue Blue Line station in Minneapolis.

Metro Transit says ridership is exceeding projections.
Awhile ago PLANSIT and I posted back-to-back posts of Denver Moves Frequent, High-Quality Denver Transit. Since it has a City of Denver focus there's only half-dozen routes to focus on and two: Colfax and Broadway are already a work-in-progress.

Denver News7 had a recent, decent overview of the proposed Colfax remake to a BRT corridor. Then there was this: https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...-rapid-transit
Quote:
On Monday night, the Denver City Council will consider a bill for an agreement with RTD to spend $2-million to study the Colfax Area Planning Project, including the proposed dedicated bus lanes along the corridor.
Any guesses as to when the study after study will end?
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  #11249  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 6:23 PM
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Word on the street is that wong and bunt recently met quietly in a city park to strategize who should be allowed to fly and ride transit and who shouldn't be allowed. It's all about 'social credit' and their thinking goes along these lines:

China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
MARCH 16, 2018 - Reuters Staff - WORLD NEWS
Quote:
SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China said it will begin applying its so-called social credit system to flights and trains and stop people who have committed misdeeds from taking such transport for up to a year.
What do you think?
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  #11250  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
There's a dubious and devious reason for this post

'It's a big deal': C Line to bring bus rapid transit to popular north Minneapolis route
03/19/18 by Peter Callaghan/MinnPost

I thought the Twin Cities had already done some BRT?


Awhile ago PLANSIT and I posted back-to-back posts of Denver Moves Frequent, High-Quality Denver Transit. Since it has a City of Denver focus there's only half-dozen routes to focus on and two: Colfax and Broadway are already a work-in-progress.

Denver News7 had a recent, decent overview of the proposed Colfax remake to a BRT corridor. Then there was this: https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...-rapid-transit

Any guesses as to when the study after study will end?
Two separate but linked efforts:
  1. Alternatives Analysis - Figure out what the transit/multimodal vision for Colfax is. The City is just about done with this as it recommended Center-Running as its Preliminary LPA. Public feedback was positive based on survey results shown last week to the Task Force. Next step is 30% Design, NEPA, and FTA Project Development.

  2. Land-Use Planning - This is what the $2M is referring to in the above story. This money will be used for the East Central Area and East Area Neighborhood Plans already in progress. Denver received a $1.35M grant to prepare the corridor for the BRT's arrival by focusing on land-use planning (TOD opportunities), investment w/o displacement strategies, business retention, etc.

Last edited by PLANSIT; Mar 22, 2018 at 7:39 PM.
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  #11251  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 7:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive
Ridership - the mother's milk of transit
Comparing specific corridors of RTD with other peer cities
Post all of RTD's!
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  #11252  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
Post all of RTD's!
R-Line = (-329)
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  #11253  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 8:00 PM
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So the R line is at negative ridership now? I can't imagine more than 200 people riding that godforsaken line.
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  #11254  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2018, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
Post all of RTD's!
I'd be delighted to do that. One problem I need you to provide a link to where I can find them. I want weekday numbers. I found San Diego's on their Wikipedia page and I found Portland's within a paragraph of a pdf and I found the Twin Cities somewhere but they only have two lines. Phx I knew from recall.

So yeah, help me out with a linky and I'll post whatever your heart desires.
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  #11255  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2018, 5:08 AM
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Oh poo.

Alright we'll proxy corridor ridership using RTD's station-by-station data. I've moved that data into spreadsheet form so I can manipulate it to get what we want. This proxy will, of course, be slightly different from whatever you might see RTD report and thus not precisely accurate, but it should be ballpark accurate. I'll walk you through the convoluted process to get the estimates if you want.

Here are the results:

Estimated boardings per weekday for RTD rail corridors:
  1. SE corridor: 35,900
  2. Airport corridor: 22,600
  3. SW corridor: 22,100
  4. 225 corridor: 14,300
  5. W corridor: 12,000
  6. 5 Points corridor: 3,800
  7. NW corridor: 1,400

Someone else can add in the mileage and normalize it per mile if they want. Don't forget to include the Central corridor portions within each of these corridors, because these numbers do include the Central stations for each corridor.
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  #11256  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2018, 5:20 AM
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The thing that jumps out to me most about this is the West corridor. It's naturally a good transit corridor, unlike 225 which is naturally not. For West to perform this badly implies problems with implementation.
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  #11257  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2018, 8:04 AM
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It's just too slow. 47 minutes from Golden to Union Station. 6th Avenue by car even during rush hour it is only a 30 minute trip, and only 20 minutes non-rush hour. The LRT needs to move at SW corridor speeds of 55 mph to be used more. Currently the W line LRTs are moving at like 30-35 mph for long stretches of this route.
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  #11258  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2018, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLANSIT View Post
Two separate but linked efforts:
  1. Alternatives Analysis - Figure out what the transit/multimodal vision for Colfax is. The City is just about done with this as it recommended Center-Running as its Preliminary LPA. Public feedback was positive based on survey results shown last week to the Task Force. Next step is 30% Design, NEPA, and FTA Project Development.

  2. Land-Use Planning - This is what the $2M is referring to in the above story. This money will be used for the East Central Area and East Area Neighborhood Plans already in progress. Denver received a $1.35M grant to prepare the corridor for the BRT's arrival by focusing on land-use planning (TOD opportunities), investment w/o displacement strategies, business retention, etc.
Thanks for the clarification; so this was for land use planning which is nice but barely relevant to getting the dang BRT done. Nice to see that centerline is the LPA even if temporary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
Oh poo.

Alright we'll proxy corridor ridership using RTD's station-by-station data. I've moved that data into spreadsheet form so I can manipulate it to get what we want. This proxy will, of course, be slightly different from whatever you might see RTD report and thus not precisely accurate, but it should be ballpark accurate. I'll walk you through the convoluted process to get the estimates if you want.

Here are the results:

Estimated boardings per weekday for RTD rail corridors:
  1. SE corridor: 35,900
  2. Airport corridor: 22,600
  3. SW corridor: 22,100
  4. 225 corridor: 14,300
  5. W corridor: 12,000
  6. 5 Points corridor: 3,800
  7. NW corridor: 1,400

Someone else can add in the mileage and normalize it per mile if they want. Don't forget to include the Central corridor portions within each of these corridors, because these numbers do include the Central stations for each corridor.
Thanks tons for doing this. Spread sheet is very interesting. Fair to say that when it comes to transit data analysis you're highly conversant while I am highly NOT.

Just a 'heads up' that you've revved up my pontification motor so when I find some time...
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  #11259  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2018, 9:01 PM
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It's just too slow. 47 minutes from Golden to Union Station. 6th Avenue by car even during rush hour it is only a 30 minute trip, and only 20 minutes non-rush hour. The LRT needs to move at SW corridor speeds of 55 mph to be used more. Currently the W line LRTs are moving at like 30-35 mph for long stretches of this route.
And too many stations. It's operating as a streetcar over heavy rail distances.
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  #11260  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2018, 10:55 PM
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And too many stations. It's operating as a streetcar over heavy rail distances.
It's really the last leg out to Golden that makes up a significant part of the time problem - it's 30 minutes from the Federal Center to Union Station. ¼ of the trip from Golden is the last two stops...

I ride it from Perry to Union Station every day and it's about a 10 minute ride. Even with the walk to my office from Union Station, driving only saves 5-10 minutes.

I don't think it's speed or distance that affects ridership, but the fact that there is no other reason to take the W than to go downtown. Maaaaybe if you have a court date at Jeffco or aren't bleeding and need to go to St. Anthony's. Every other corridor has large areas of retail and office near stations. Almost every W station is surrounded by housing or parks and the only things within walking distance are fast food or strip malls. I imagine the SW line has some flow in the opposite direction from downtown and may maintain ridership a little later because people can actually take the train to and from a bar in downtown Littleton or to retail around Englewood or Mineral.

I took the train to meet my family at a restaurant on Union once: it involved a cold, windy walk through a huge empty parking lot, running across busy streets that aren't pedestrian-friendly, and then more parking lots. It probably would have been safer for me to drive home after drinking.
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