Calgary Roads

[canlefty]

^ There's really nothing along that bit or memorial drive... if the almighty Druh wants to do something, how about shutting down Kensington road like stephen ave... at least there is street level amenities for people to actually go there for.... but hey, I guess a stroll along a divided 4 lane road with an adjacent existing pathway system sounds great!!!! Druh

[MichaelS]

^ I have to agree with this. Unless they are going to put on a market or something else, what is the point of closing down half of Memorial to pedestrians? Kensington Road would be a much better choice.

[Bigtime]

Calgary merchants leery of limiting cars on Memorial Drive
Proposal aimed at luring walkers and cyclists

By Eva Ferguson, Calgary HeraldApril 15, 2009 7:13 AM

Businesses are worried about a city-driven proposal to shut down a portion of Memorial Drive this summer to encourage more cycling and pedestrian traffic along the river.

Already struggling with a downturn in the economy and rising rents and taxes, businesses say restricting vehicles on one of their busiest days will be another tough blow to revenue.

"What a ridiculous idea," said Shauna-Lee Gunn, owner of Body Inc.,a tattoo and body piercing salon on 10th Street N. W.

"Where do they come up with these things? It's a huge concern if they're going to reduce access to the stores along here."

Ald. Druh Farrell said she will push ahead with a plan to turn a portion of Memorial Drive into a promenade. The two lanes closest to the river between 10th Street N. W. and the Calgary Curling Club, situated by the pedestrian bridge to Prince's Island, would be closed to traffic on Sundays in August in an effort to give bikes, joggers and pedestrians more room. The other two lanes would be open to two-way traffic.

But Gunn said traffic is busy along Memorial Drive on weekends, so closing off two of the four lanes will cause severe traffic jams and prevent drivers from visiting businesses.

"This is really going to hurt our business. It's going to hurt a lot of businesses at a time when things are already very tough."

Gunn added many of her neighbours, like her, are struggling with higher rents, while others are having a tough time with business tax increases.

John Wilkinson, owner of Kismet Ladieswear in Kensington, said cyclists and pedestrians already have plenty of room with two divided pathways and a large green space along Memorial Drive, east of 10th Street N. W.

"I don't really see people rushing down to Kensington now, just because they can walk down the middle of Memorial Drive," Wilkinson said. "If there was a parade, or a special event, maybe it might bring more people. But I don't see this doing that.

"Impeding traffic flow isn't a good idea when so many businesses are already struggling just to stay alive."

But Farrell said pedestrian projects in other North American and European cities have been a success.

"It's about getting people to come out and get active. We're not reducing capacity.In fact, we're anticipating more volumes of people."

Annie MacInnis, executive director of the Kensington Business Revitalization Zone, said she's optimistic about the plan and supports encouraging more pedestrian traffic in the area.

"We're looking at ways to boost vitality in this area. And we're hoping this will be a success."

Farrell added she's not worried about impeding traffic be-cause that stretch of Memorial Drive is "a pretty sleepy road on Sundays."

The city has already had calls to expand the closure further east and west, and possibly south into Chinatown.

"We'll monitor its success and we'll re-evaluate again in September," Farrell said.

eFerguson@tHeHerald. Canwest.Com
© Copyright (c) The Calgary Herald
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A couple of thoughts, we have discussed on here how Kensington is in its situation entirely due to Kensington and Sunnyside's opposition to higher density developments. They are trying to compete with up and coming shopping/entertainment streets & avenues and have not been proactive enough to keep attracting people. So 2 of 4 lanes being closed 1 day a week for 1 month will hardly be the main cause of the business' struggles.

Personally I don't think Memorial is busy on Sundays, the only place you see any volume of traffic is waiting at the lights at Memorial and 10th street. Other than that it is smooth sailing.

Access is hardly limited, you can still always take Kensington Road, 5th Avenue, or 10th street from the north to get into the area proper.

[Stang]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Access is hardly limited, you can still always take Kensington Road, 5th Avenue, or 10th street from the north to get into the area proper.

Further to your point regarding access - getting into Kensington going Eastbound on Memorial at 10th Street is, well, difficult to impossible anyway.

I think that most people coming from the West get onto Kensington Road back near 14th or even Crowchild because you can't do it from Memorial at 10th anyway.

Like someone else mentioned here - why not do it on Kensington Road (or even 10th) to really get the community involved?

[niwell]

In Ottawa they close down half of the Ottawa River Parkway for cyclists and pedestrians on Sundays in the summer. It works quite well and is a nice change from the overcrowded bike path nearby. I'm sure people complained vehemently when it was proposed, but everyone seems to like it now. They also close down parts of the parkways flanking the rideau canal. All of these are areas with parallel bike paths and somewhat similar to Memorial.

I'd actually worry more about shutting down a street like Kensington on Sunday, where local residents and businesses may legitimately need road access.

[Bigtime]

Good to see I'm not alone in my thinking. Unfortunately the business' in the area will run with this story about how this will destroy them, completely avoiding the real reasons as to why they are struggling in the first place.

[reflexzero]

I don't know.. there seems to be a perfectly good pathway system along Memorial, which is shaded and is somewhat scenic, rather than baking on the pavement in the sun.

Does someone think that this is going to be some sort of magical renaissance, and suddenly people from all over the city will drive down to Memorial so that they can go walk on the road? I don't buy it.

Personally, I spend my weekends getting as far away from downtown Calgary as I can possibly be. Peace and quiet is my goal.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by reflexzero

I don't know.. there seems to be a perfectly good pathway system along Memorial, which is shaded and is somewhat scenic, rather than baking on the pavement in the sun.

Does someone think that this is going to be some sort of magical renaissance, and suddenly people from all over the city will drive down to Memorial so that they can go walk on the road? I don't buy it.

Personally, I spend my weekends getting as far away from downtown Calgary as I can possibly be. Peace and quiet is my goal.

Well I don't know either, perhaps that is why we should at least try it first? That pathway system gets incredibly congested on that stretch along Memorial to the point of being a safety hazard, I know this from firsthand experience on my bike every year.

Plenty of peace and quiet can be found downtown and in the Beltline.

[Bigtime]

Michael Platt weighs in on the debate:

Are we cosmopolitan folk who want to close a major artery for rollerbladers and buskers ... or are we Calgarians?
By MICHAEL PLATT

Last Updated: 15th April 2009, 1:36am

In one sense, Calgarians should see Ald. Druh Farrell's schemes and dreams as a compliment to who she thinks we are.

Like the well-meaning aunt who gives you a junior art kit for your birthday, when you really wanted the latest Droolgaar action figure with exploding capillaries, Farrell believes we are a bright bunch just needing inspiration.

In Alderman Farrell's world, Calgarians aren't people who attend monster truck rallies, or folks who willingly spend their spare time drinking six packs while cheering pay-per-view Ultimate Fighting.

Calgarians, to Druh, are cosmopolitan citizens held down by bland concrete and too many strip malls. She's made it her mission to bring culture to the supposedly deprived masses.

That the masses might think she's putting too much sugar in her morning latte doesn't occur to the alderman, who is perplexed that anyone would oppose the idea of half-shutting Memorial Dr. so pedestrians can use the road.

"Why would anyone be against this?" asked Farrell, when told some Calgarians won't be happy to have a major artery reduced to a single-lane road, even on a Sunday in August.

Actually, it'll be every Sunday in August, and it's a looming reality.

Farrell says she already has the city's approval to shut the river-side lanes of Memorial between 10 St. N.W. and 3 St. N.W., on Sundays in August.

On those select days, the two south lanes will be reserved for pedestrians, cyclists, skaters and the like, and there are plans for entertainment, including music, along the temporary asphalt promenade.

Critics upset that a major city road will be shut, when a bike path already exists just metres away, are missing the point says the alderman.

The idea, inspired by similar closures in cities like Winnipeg, Rio and New York, is not aimed at annoying motorists, says Farrell, but to inspire Calgarians to gather, play and socialize in a less-hurried way.

With fewer cars on Sunday, Farrell doesn't expect there will be traffic issues.

"It's not aimed to frustrate drivers -- it's pretty sleepy on a Sunday; it's the slowest day of the week," said Farrell.

She said the closed area is not just for people who live in the inner city, either.

"All Calgarians are welcome," said Farrell, adding that she hopes cynics will try it before they condemn the closure.

"They should give it a chance, and come down."

But there are already storm clouds gathering over Farrell's summer paradise, with another alderman on council in a thunderous mood over the road shutdown, which never went to a vote.

Ald. Ric McIver said the scheme is a traffic jam waiting to happen, and a serious inconvenience for motorists and emergency vehicles with more important things to do than frolic on the riverbank.

"This is wackier than all get out -- it's a major artery," said McIver.

"I like block parties as much as the next guy, but why isn't this taking place on a cul-de-sac, or on a street not used for commuting?

"It's the worst idea I've heard in a long time, and I'd like to know how the heck this was approved."

It's not Farrell's first time caught in a struggle between her vision of what Calgarians should be, and the reality of a population often more concerned with avoiding traffic snarls on a precious summer Sunday.

The designer pedestrian bridge to be built across the Bow River has earned Farrell considerable flak, though it will be used by millions of people in future decades, and is likely to become a noted city landmark.

There were far cheaper options, but Farrell fought for what she believes Calgarians would appreciate, if they'd only give the Santiago Calatrava-designed bridge a chance.

And now, with the half-closure of Memorial Dr., Farrell is again trying to introduce Calgarians to a bit of culture, believing we are a cosmopolitan community just waiting to be freed.

She's got the best of intentions, no doubt, but there's something Farrell needs to ask herself.

What do Calgarians really want?

MICHAEL.PLATT@SUNMEDIA.CA
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[MonctonGoldenFlames]

This sounds like nothing more than Druh Farrell trying to keep her nice inner city neighbourhood, very quiet and car free on sundays. It will simply prevent vehicles from cutting thru Sunnyside via 8 St. to avoid waiting in line at the 10 St. lights. She has put enough spin on it to make it sound like a good idea to the ignorant. There are 2 paths thru that stretch of Memorial Dr, one for pedestrians and one for wheeled travellers. We do not need an extra 2 vehicle lanes for foot traffic.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenFlames

This sounds like nothing more than Druh Farrell trying to keep her nice inner city neighbourhood, very quiet and car free on sundays. It will simply prevent vehicles from cutting thru Sunnyside via 8 St. to avoid waiting in line at the 10 St. lights. She has put enough spin on it to make it sound like a good idea to the ignorant. There are 2 paths thru that stretch of Memorial Dr, one for pedestrians and one for wheeled travellers. We do not need an extra 2 vehicle lanes for foot traffic.

If that is the real reason why not start with traffic calming measures like roundabouts and big speed bumps on 8th street?

Who would possibly utilize the 8th street shortcut on a bloody Sunday? At the most you are probably going to wait 4 minutes to make a right turn onto 10th street. If that is the case, then I am even more in favour of shutting it down to stiffle people that choose to take another route and go ripping through residential areas (I wonder how many actually slow down to 30 in the playground zone there?).

This city survived the Centre street bridge and 6th avenue closure, this is a non-issue.

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

Turning right onto 10 St. is sometimes a 2-3 light wait, even on sundays. with the amount of pedestrian traffic, it is much easier to short cut thru 8 St.

Shutting down Memorial, especially when 16 ave is under construction will really make travelling east-west a pain in the arse.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenFlames

Turning right onto 10 St. is sometimes a 2-3 light wait, even on sundays. with the amount of pedestrian traffic, it is much easier to short cut thru 8 St.

Shutting down Memorial, especially when 16 ave is under construction will really make travelling east-west a pain in the arse.

Damn pedestrians, get off the crosswalks!

It would be a quick detour for someone to simply get onto 4th avenue and up to 10th street that way. Or go straight through 10th and hang a quick right just before the Kensington Riverside Inn.

If people can figure out shortcuts all the time under heavy traffic situations than this should present no problem to all those clever commuters.

[reflexzero]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

If that is the real reason why not start with traffic calming measures like roundabouts and big speed bumps on 8th street?

I find driving faster over speed humps in this city ( Capri Ave NW I'm looking at you ) tends to negate their effects, much to the chagrin on the locals. Plus during the 8 months of winter the ice build up makes them dissapear into the road anyway.

Although, any of our local pretend cowboys driving trucks and SUV's seem to just sail over the humps without a second thought, their tires neatly spaced to avoid even touching the humps.

But back on topic. I wonder if Druh is thinking that the lane closure would be a good idea in the dead of winter too. I'll mention it again, Calgary has 8 months of winter. She should have tried this social engineering experiment back in February.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ closing the road to traffic is no more social engineering than leaving it open to traffic.

People throw that term around way too liberally, using market forces to change behaviour does not necessarily effect the social view of such behaviour. Without effecting societies view of a behaviour, it cannot be social engineering. Also, since it is applied to such a small area and population size, and is not mandatory it isn't really on a societal scale.

Now something like car free Sundays, now that would be social engineering.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by reflexzero

I find driving faster over speed humps in this city ( Capri Ave NW I'm looking at you ) tends to negate their effects, much to the chagrin on the locals. Plus during the 8 months of winter the ice build up makes them dissapear into the road anyway.

Although, any of our local pretend cowboys driving trucks and SUV's seem to just sail over the humps without a second thought, their tires neatly spaced to avoid even touching the humps.

But back on topic. I wonder if Druh is thinking that the lane closure would be a good idea in the dead of winter too. I'll mention it again, Calgary has 8 months of winter. She should have tried this social engineering experiment back in February.

8 months of winter? Really? According to Envrionment Canada and their historical data from 1971-2000 we have 7 months of the year with an average temperature above 0 degrees. Call it what you want, but I am tired of the cop-out excuse of "Calgary is in winter all the time".

I remember walking down big open pedestrian spaces in sub zero temperatures in Italy with plenty of other people that had no problem with it.

Have you seen the new super speed bumps that are now being used? They span the entire length of the road and are about 5 feet wide. Trucks and snow cannot mitigate their effects.

[Wooster]

http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/...ended_plan.pdf

Carried over from the downtown arena debate.

Is anyone else concerned about the impact of a traffic interchange on Erlton as proposed here?

It would bring a grade separation, huge traffic ramps in a relatively urban context. To me there is a big risk of sterilizing the area around it and really diminishing the potential of the Anthem Erlton project they have planned for along Macleod between 22nd and 25th. What kind of interface will this create with an inclined off ramp lining the site? Is such suburban freeway infrastructure appropriate for this context?

[Beltliner]

Originally Posted by Wooster

http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/...ended_plan.pdf

Carried over from the downtown arena debate.

Is anyone else concerned about the impact of a traffic interchange on Erlton as proposed here?

It would bring a grade separation, huge traffic ramps in a relatively urban context. To me there is a big risk of sterilizing the area around it and really diminishing the potential of the Anthem Erlton project they have planned for along Macleod between 22nd and 25th. What kind of interface will this create with an inclined off ramp lining the site?

I can see how, in the context of trying to improve mass transit flow-through at Erlton Station, a SPUI at Macleod x 25 Avenue would generate that baby-out-with-the-bathwater kind of feeling, Bertie. Not that I think anyone here on the board would miss the Humpty's and the Deep Discount Mortgage Joint on the west side of the roadworks, but you're right about the slip roads making it more difficult to keep up a walkable environment in the area, especially if Anthem Erlton does go ahead.

[nik8063]

As a resident who lives right in the middle of where this zone will be, I think this is a pretty bad idea. The layout of the ground in this stretch is just not very conducive to connecting this corridor with the river. I wouldn't personally mind the extra hustle and bustle of this being across the street from me, but it just doesn't make sense.

You have two lanes of concrete and then a rather steep embankment blocking line of sight to the river. If this was to be done, a better choice would be between 10th and the cloverleaf to 14th. Closer to the businesses and a flatter area to provide a better combination of the river park area and the road closure.

However, overall I just don't think it's a great idea. This is a major cross town roadway, summer or not. I don't even drive anymore and I think this would suck.

[Bigtime]

That is nasty Wooster, is there any sort of timeframe on this?

Edit: Let me rephrase that, nasty but probably necessary?