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  #1861  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 11:18 PM
Rollerstud98 Rollerstud98 is offline
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Looking back on it, pretty fucked up story but it has me laughing anyways! Makes me think of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxaQsBXJRcs
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  #1862  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 4:23 AM
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Is it me or are the candidates falling over themselves to come up with the stupidest ideas they possibly can? Bernier with his idea to send out the military to shore up our borders is crazy, and I thought he was supposed to be one of the sane ones.
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  #1863  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 10:07 PM
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Is it me or are the candidates falling over themselves to come up with the stupidest ideas they possibly can? Bernier with his idea to send out the military to shore up our borders is crazy, and I thought he was supposed to be one of the sane ones.
He's changing gears a bit in the last few months. He was originally focused on libertarian economic policy, but now he's starting to play with the identity-politics crowd. Seeing as how he's never cared about it until now, my guess is he's faking it to draw support away from Leitch & O'Brien and if he wins, will abandon all of it pretty quickly. Sort of like how in Ontario's PC leadership race, Patrick Brown made people believe that he would adopt a socially conservative direction but then moved to a socially liberal position once he became leader.
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  #1864  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Reports this afternoon suggest that Bernier has taken the leadership contest to Crazytown with a suggestion that he'd consider using the military to "close the border" to illegal immigrants. One has trouble even knowing where to begin in explaining why, apart from being completely ineffective, that's a really, really, really bad idea.
If you exclude the effectiveness issue, what makes it a bad idea?
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  #1865  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 11:25 PM
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Borders are a bad idea, according to some.
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  #1866  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 11:26 PM
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What would it accomplish?
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  #1867  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 11:32 PM
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What would it accomplish?
Do you mean "what would enforcing borders accomplish?" or instead "what could the military accomplish that isn't already being done?" ?

I think it's fair game politically for anyone to raise the point that Canada's borders are very porous, which so far has never been a problem, but might become one if the US starts to crack down a bit more on their own illegals and word spreads that our border is totally porous.
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  #1868  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 11:55 PM
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Do you mean "what would enforcing borders accomplish?" or instead "what could the military accomplish that isn't already being done?" ?
The borders didn't stop being 'enforced'. People who are caught crossing (they want to be caught) are arrested. What could the military change about that?
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  #1869  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 12:42 AM
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Yeah, I'm not totally sure he imagines the army would do once they got there. They can't very well shell the other side of the border or anything. And it's not like they can just link arms along the entire border. In fact, they're not even responsible for border security, so if I'm not mistaken, they'd have to turn border-crossers over to the RCMP anyways.

So yeah, I'm not totally convinced of the cost/benefit ratio here.
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  #1870  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 1:12 AM
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The borders didn't stop being 'enforced'. People who are caught crossing (they want to be caught) are arrested. What could the military change about that?
I imagine that the main answer to that question would be "manage to also arrest the people who are crossing without getting arrested / who would otherwise cross without getting arrested".

We only have data on the people who are caught.

I have already personally encountered one case of a thoroughly undocumented illegal who lived and worked in downtown Sherbrooke (years ago), but that was only through pure happenstance, and I couldn't manage to do much about it at the time. What's obvious though is that no one ever had any official data about him (and/or other people in his situation)... so, don't expect StatsCan data on people like that.
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  #1871  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 1:22 AM
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I imagine that the main answer to that question would be "manage to also arrest the people who are crossing without getting arrested / who would otherwise cross without getting arrested".
And then what?
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  #1872  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 1:31 AM
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And then what?
They could be put into crematory ovens, or sent back to the Safe Third Country they came from, or sent back to their country of origin, or even other alternatives, none of which would involve them living in Canada as thoroughly undocumented residents. There's a bunch of options to pick from.
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  #1873  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 1:43 AM
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If you exclude the effectiveness issue, what makes it a bad idea?
Using the military for civilian policing is rarely, if ever, a good idea. For starters, military personnel are not trained for police work. In this particular case, there has been no indication (afaik) that the police forces are not able to cope. Although illegal entry into Canada is not a routine matter, what the police are actually required to do in response is pretty routine.
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  #1874  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 1:48 AM
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Using the military for civilian policing is rarely, if ever, a good idea. For starters, military personnel are not trained for police work. In this particular case, there has been no indication (afaik) that the police forces are not able to cope. Although illegal entry into Canada is not a routine matter, what the police are actually required to do in response is pretty routine.
Everyone in here seems to agree on the "effectiveness" aspect of the idea, by the way. My side of the argument here is that throwing new ideas out there shouldn't be taboo, given that Canada doesn't seem to be mastering the problem satisfactorily at the moment.

The military regularly steps in for civilian duties as needed, FYI. (Stuff like help place sandbags when the Red River gets out of its bed, etc.)
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  #1875  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 1:49 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
They could be put into crematory ovens, or sent back to the Safe Third Country they came from, or sent back to their country of origin, or even other alternatives, none of which would involve them living in Canada as thoroughly undocumented residents. There's a bunch of options to pick from.
If you are referring to those crossing the border illegally, once they cross the border, they are our problem. The USA will not take them back. Some of them will eventually be sent back to their countries of origin. Some may languish in detention, if Canadian rules are not changed. Others will be determined to be legitimate refugees, despite how they got into the country.
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  #1876  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 1:57 AM
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Once they cross the border, they are our problem.
Which is kinda the reason why the idea got brought up in the first place -- given that they shouldn't be our problem, is there a way we could help prevent them from crossing the border?

When I was in the Canadian military we'd often get paid to play foot hockey in the armory on weeknights... if things are still somewhat like that, I have the feeling that there's manpower to spare who could instead be used to, say, patrol randomly the Vermont border, which certainly couldn't hurt (worst case, effectiveness is zero, but the manpower is getting paid anyway, and getting some fresh air).

I'm not personally recommending anything here, for the record. Just saying the debate deserves to be had, IMHO.
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  #1877  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 2:06 AM
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Which is kinda the reason why the idea got brought up in the first place -- given that they shouldn't be our problem, is there a way we could help prevent them from crossing the border?

When I was in the Canadian military we'd often get paid to play foot hockey in the armory on weeknights... if things are still somewhat like that, I have the feeling that there's manpower to spare who could instead be used to, say, patrol randomly the Vermont border, which certainly couldn't hurt (worst case, effectiveness is zero, but the manpower is getting paid anyway, and getting some fresh air).

I'm not personally recommending anything here, for the record. Just saying the debate deserves to be had, IMHO.
I can only think of one way for our military to prevent illegal migrants from crossing the border and that would be to kill them (and that only after they are in Canada, since the neighbours would not take kindly to us shooting people on U.S. territory). Unless that is what one would consider an option, I don't see what a soldier could do that our police are not already doing. Remember, we are talking about people who want to get caught so they can enter the refugee determination system.
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  #1878  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 2:08 AM
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Michael Chong is the only one who seems like a normal person.
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  #1879  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 2:11 AM
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Michael Chong is the only one who seems like a normal person.
That's because he is the only one that's a normal person.
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  #1880  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 2:35 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post

The military regularly steps in for civilian duties as needed, FYI. (Stuff like help place sandbags when the Red River gets out of its bed, etc.)
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