Tourism and You!

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by McBane

What's with tourists in pretty much every city bypassing local restaurants and shops to patronize TGI Fridays and Macy's? You come to Philly (or NYC) and want to eat at the Olive Garden? Are you friggin kidding me? Otherwise, tourists are great for the economy!

Familiarity. You're already way outside your comfort zone and on high alert to new and unusual situations, conditions, and possible dangers. If you can exert some calming control over the situation by adhering to some measure of the known and safe, even the petty and illusory safety of a chain restaurant or store, you often do so.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

You've got my attention... Could you tell me more about that image and why that's a thing?

A bunch of factors contribute to this impression. I'd start by reading this short BI article.

There are two types of Mainland tourist in Japan (or anywhere): 1.) ones with money and some international exposure, traveling alone or in a small group, and 2.) large groups of guided tours made up of people who have never left the Mainland before.

The first group is almost never a problem and is likely who you might see on the Eastern Seaboard in the US. That second group though . . . well, the second group honestly plays a big role in my admittedly negative view of Mainland Chinese. 50 obnoxiously loud people will simply take over whatever space they enter, with no concept of how to queue in a line or how to take turns asking staff for help. The men spit anywhere and everywhere. And they very much presume that whatever money they're bringing with them on their trip entitles them to superior, priority service.

Basically, the large guided tour groups of first-time overseas Mainland travelers emphatically confirm all the negative stereotypes Japanese have about Chinese: loud, rude, boorish, and ostentatiously tacky with displays of wealth. When a big group like this shows up at a restaurant, Japanese patrons quietly just leave. Me too.

Now, I've read some defense of these behaviors as typical of a newly-wealthy nation just starting to travel outside of their homeland; Americans were the loud and tactless travelers up until the 90s (or still are, depending on who you ask) and the Japanese themselves were teases mercilessly for their own photo-snap happy tour groups in the 80s. These are valid points, and hopefully with more exposure Mainland tourists will start to behave better. But no one in Japan is holding their breath.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by Shawn

50 obnoxiously loud people will simply take over whatever space they enter, with no concept of how to queue in a line or how to take turns asking staff for help. The men spit anywhere and everywhere. And they very much presume that whatever money they're bringing with them on their trip entitles them to superior, priority service.

This happened to me in Quebec City, of all places! Towards the end of our meal *BAM* a really big group of loud Chinese tourists take over half the restaurant (and this was one of those quiet, candle-lit, 300-year old establishments with full course dinners). Luckily got out of there when we did, before that group settled in (and you can imagine the translations going back and forth from French to English to Mandarin).

[giallo]

Mainland tourists are a big thing in Taiwan now. It's still tough and expensive to travel there solo, but very easy with a group. They stand out so much.

First day in Taipei last October, we were eating at a dumpling restaurant when three Mainlanders showed up. The woman, in her 50s (seriously, middle-aged Mainland Chinese women may just be some of the rudest and most miserable people on the planet. Not all, but the majority*), didn't like the way her dumplings were presented on her plate, and asked them to make another batch. The restaurant owner complied, and gave her another order. She still wasn't satisfied with the dumplings' shape(?!?) and this time, demanded they remake them to her liking. The waitress/owner had obviously had enough (I'm sure she knew this customer was from the Mainland), and told her this is how we make them, and if you don't like them, then there's nothing we can do. The Mainland women flips the table and throws her chopsticks across the seating area, and storms off. The Taiwanese customers just shook their heads, looking at one another thinking, "It's only going to get worse, as it becomes easier for them to travel here".


*Ok, I realize that's not a very nice thing to say, and really, these women are just a product of their environment. Growing up in the 50s and 60s in China would have been extremely tough, and it's obviously affected them greatly, but there's no helping them now. They are the most selfish and downright cruel group of people I've ever seen. I can't even think of a close second. The younger generation (40 years old and younger) have a really tough time with them as well. You could fly 24 A380 airbuses side-by-side though the generation gap here.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by giallo

The woman, in her 50s (seriously, middle-aged Mainland Chinese women may just be some of the rudest and most miserable people on the planet. Not all, but the majority*), didn't like the way her dumplings were presented on her plate, and asked them to make another batch. The restaurant owner complied, and gave her another order. She still wasn't satisfied with the dumplings' shape(?!?) and this time, demanded they remake them to her liking. The waitress/owner had obviously had enough (I'm sure she knew this customer was from the Mainland), and told her this is how we make them, and if you don't like them, then there's nothing we can do. The Mainland women flips the table and throws her chopsticks across the seating area, and storms off.

You're not describing anything that anyone who lives and works in a tourist town like mine, or Charleston or Savannah or some such, hasn't seen committed at the hands of a rich person, someone from up north, or some unholy combination of both. I have seen a tourist throw a landline phone at the head of a coworker, have had a spider thrown in my face by a tourist, and have been threatened with death when a guest's wife tripped on the staircase -- although in his defense, that guest was a redneck of whom stupidity is to be expected and pitied. In addition, I have been treated as a zoo exhibit by tourists who want me to keep talking in hopes of hearing what trace of a Southern accent I have, I have been asked where someone can find a gas station or a country store "where the old men sit around pickin' and grinnin'," and once had a long and condescending lecture delivered to me about white oppression of the Cherokee when I noted that the casino is a major draw out there -- which is funny because I'm directly related to the vice chief of the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Indians. When I worked at a motel near a clutch of summer camps that employed Europeans as counselors, I also got to experience Eurotrash -- most memorable was the woman who was demonstrating incredible abdominal strength (and an incredibly full bladder) by being able to piss on parked cars from the second-floor balcony, who then ran around the property trying to elude the cops and screaming that she couldn't be arrested because she was from London.

What struck me about this secondary discussion of Mainland Chinese tourists is that anyone would have to be told not to, or not allow their children to, pop a squat anywhere anytime, indoors or out. That's... interesting and doesn't have a parallel. The only thing that comes close in my mind is how newly-arrived Mexican and South American migrant workers around here remain convinced -- and no proof can dissuade them -- that American plumbing can't handle the flushing of toilet paper. One of my cousins used to run a video store that catered to migrant farm workers and it drove him up all four walls at having to clean the wads of shit-encrusted toilet paper out of the trash cans every day.

[pdxtex]

i dunno why this conversation reminds me of some tex avery cartoons, but you guys ever see the two about the poor manners of entitled wolves in the city, red hot riding hood and little rural riding hood?

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

What struck me about this secondary discussion of Mainland Chinese tourists is that anyone would have to be told not to, or not allow their children to, pop a squat anywhere anytime, indoors or out.

This ties in to the broader discussion we are having on resident vs. tourist viewpoints. I am of the strong opinion that travelers to counties other than their own are obliged to learn and follow the basic public etiquette of the place you're visiting. Before you arrive.

Read any guide book to Japan written in the last 50 years and they all outline the same points on the first page: 1.) wait in line 2.) do not shout or speak loudly in public, especially on trains 3.) don't wear shoes inside 4.) don't litter, and that includes spitting in public or dropping your cig butt on the ground

These are not complex, intricate social morasses requiring a few years of full immersion to understand. It's five minutes of light reading and then just spending five minutes in the country with your eyes open; if you are unable to notice that no one else on the train is shouting and eating snacks and everyone is giving you unhappy looks, if are unable to notice that everyone always stands in line for everything and seems angry with you for cutting, then you probably shouldn't be traveling abroad to Japan.

There is also the expectation that foreign tourists understand they are guests. This is something that seems not to translate well to Mainlanders. Maybe this is just me, but I get annoyed when foreign tourists loudly call residents "foreigners". Mainlanders don't think anyone else can understand Mandarin, so they loudly and rudely call store staff and other patrons "wai ren" among themselves (the Japanese equivalent is "gaijin", means "outsider" and is considered the closest thing to the N-word the language has). Guess what jokers, as long as you're not on the Mainland, YOU are the "wai ren", not that we would be so rude as to say so in front of you.

I have read numerous comments in articles like the BI one I linked to above in which Mainlanders themselves say something like "Well, how can you expect Chinese to honor other countries' etiquette, culture, and traditions when we ourselves don't even know our own etiquette, culture, or Confucius traditions? Mao killed that for all of us and we are only now starting to relearn how to be civilized in the grand Chinese tradition." This seems to jive with giallo's observation on 50-60 year old grandmas and their total and complete lack of manners (I'll add by saying this is the group I notice behaving the worst in Japan too).

Edit: Just wanted to add, this isn't an ethnic Chinese thing. Taiwanese tourists are so polite and observant, you don't even realize they are tourists until they speak. Honkies are great in that sense too.

[brickell]

I do think the group aspect plays into as well. My experience with South American and Japanese tour groups in Orlando/Disney (now skewing Chinese) is that they're always rowdier, more boisterous, but also seem to be having more fun. The group allows them to be themselves a bit more than a stand alone family.

The worst Orlando tourists though are the British Chavs. They exhibit the perfect storm of obnoxiousness and entitlement.

[muppet]

Originally Posted by giallo

Mainland tourists are a big thing in Taiwan now. It's still tough and expensive to travel there solo, but very easy with a group. They stand out so much.

First day in Taipei last October, we were eating at a dumpling restaurant when three Mainlanders showed up. The woman, in her 50s (seriously, middle-aged Mainland Chinese women may just be some of the rudest and most miserable people on the planet. Not all, but the majority*), didn't like the way her dumplings were presented on her plate, and asked them to make another batch. The restaurant owner complied, and gave her another order. She still wasn't satisfied with the dumplings' shape(?!?) and this time, demanded they remake them to her liking. The waitress/owner had obviously had enough (I'm sure she knew this customer was from the Mainland), and told her this is how we make them, and if you don't like them, then there's nothing we can do. The Mainland women flips the table and throws her chopsticks across the seating area, and storms off. The Taiwanese customers just shook their heads, looking at one another thinking, "It's only going to get worse, as it becomes easier for them to travel here".


*Ok, I realize that's not a very nice thing to say, and really, these women are just a product of their environment. Growing up in the 50s and 60s in China would have been extremely tough, and it's obviously affected them greatly, but there's no helping them now. They are the most selfish and downright cruel group of people I've ever seen. I can't even think of a close second. The younger generation (40 years old and younger) have a really tough time with them as well. You could fly 24 A380 airbuses side-by-side though the generation gap here.

What an evil old lady!

The Chinese are very passive for a great number of things, but when it comes to food it's common to complain if it's not up to spec, and one of the instances publicly complaining doesn't mean losing face. This is why China, in the words of Peter Hessler, has 'a long history of political disaster, but a first rate cuisine'. Also it's the one (only?) place in China where the old adage 'the customer is always right' rings true. It's not uncommon for managers to apologise profusely whatever the problem, or even the cook come out to apologise. Try and do the same belligerence like that crabby old lady in any other kind of establishment and you'll get into flat -out refusals, open arguments or chased off.

It's even used as a criminal tool for competitive businesses, whereby a new restaurant on its grand opening will receive a rowdy bunch of drunk businessmen who will loudly complain at every opportunity, and whatever the restaurant does to appease them (free drinks, new dishes etc) doesn't satisfy. Chances are they are actually paid by a rival business to wreck the reputation at the start.

[NorthernDancer]

Toronto Sets New Record for Tourism in 2014

TORONTO ― Toronto has set a new record in tourism by welcoming 14.3-million overnight visitors in 2014, according to Tourism Toronto. Key drivers were a fourth-consecutive year of growth among visitors from the U.S. and the highest number of overseas visitors ever.

“The world is continuing to take notice of Toronto’s emergence as an exciting leisure travel-and-meetings hot spot,” said David Whitaker, president and CEO of Tourism Toronto. “This is a sophisticated city with a growing reputation, and people want to come see for themselves what all the buzz is about. Our marketing strategy focuses on high-value visitors from major U.S. cities and key overseas markets such as the U.K., Germany, China, Japan and Brazil.”

http://www.hoteliermagazine.com/toro...-tourism-2014/

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by giallo

Mainland tourists are a big thing in Taiwan now. It's still tough and expensive to travel there solo, but very easy with a group. They stand out so much.

First day in Taipei last October, we were eating at a dumpling restaurant when three Mainlanders showed up. The woman, in her 50s (seriously, middle-aged Mainland Chinese women may just be some of the rudest and most miserable people on the planet. Not all, but the majority*), didn't like the way her dumplings were presented on her plate, and asked them to make another batch. The restaurant owner complied, and gave her another order. She still wasn't satisfied with the dumplings' shape(?!?) and this time, demanded they remake them to her liking. The waitress/owner had obviously had enough (I'm sure she knew this customer was from the Mainland), and told her this is how we make them, and if you don't like them, then there's nothing we can do. The Mainland women flips the table and throws her chopsticks across the seating area, and storms off. The Taiwanese customers just shook their heads, looking at one another thinking, "It's only going to get worse, as it becomes easier for them to travel here".


*Ok, I realize that's not a very nice thing to say, and really, these women are just a product of their environment. Growing up in the 50s and 60s in China would have been extremely tough, and it's obviously affected them greatly, but there's no helping them now. They are the most selfish and downright cruel group of people I've ever seen. I can't even think of a close second. The younger generation (40 years old and younger) have a really tough time with them as well. You could fly 24 A380 airbuses side-by-side though the generation gap here.

That's interesting but it sounds very similar to many middle to upper middle class white cunts in my area that I have observed over the years too. People like my mom and others like her have a weird attitude and can be extremely judgmental and demanding in restaurants for example. I have often been embarrassed going out with my mom and even more so my grandmas. They seem to have an instinctual disdain for service workers and have no shame in treating them bad. I have felt there is a huge generation gap between them and my generation (in my 30's). The only thing I can think of is they were all stay at home housewives and I think they have no clue at all how hard people work for their money.

I've had a very hard time reconciling this behavior in my head with their otherwise friendly and loving disposition to our family.