AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by arbeiter

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who calls a layman a "Leman" and spells borough "Burrough" doesn't have my attention for long. I am considered one of the most critical people of Austin among those on the forum, and yet I find your pie in the sky ideas the product of a teenage construction fetish, or at worst, a right-winger falsely assuming they have a quorum on this, well, forum.

Thank you! Thank you! Yes!

Also, for wwmiv, you say that you are not claiming that a Riverside freeway should be built now, only that you think it should have been built in the 60s. Well, this whole thing started when you asked if it was feasible to create two downtown freeways. And I asked what your preferred alignment was, and you said Riverside and Cesar Chavez/Barton Creek.

[Scottolini]

Downtown proper's east-west travel really isn't an issue. Between Cesar Chavez, 5th & 6th, 15th, and MLK, along with every other numbered street I don't see a problem.

I certainly think that some of the east-west streets just north and south of downtown should be upgraded, but not into a freeway. Roads such as Oltorf should at the very least have a center turn lane, or a median. Bicycle lanes could be added simultaneously, along with sidewalk improvements. Same goes for Enfield, 35th/38th/38th1/2, 45th, etc. Think of the upgrades to Barton Springs west of Lamar, or Koenig Lane west of Airport for the type of upgrades of which I'm speaking.

[SecretAgentMan]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Hey! Can we all please stop fighting with eachother!? PLEASE!?! STOP THE INSANITY!

Thank you!

[arbeiter]

Originally Posted by SecretAgentMan

Thank you!

I think that's kind of ironic - his manner of speech and behavior is what inflamed this normally dead and boring thread in the first place.

[arbeiter]

Originally Posted by Scottolini

Downtown proper's east-west travel really isn't an issue. Between Cesar Chavez, 5th & 6th, 15th, and MLK, along with every other numbered street I don't see a problem.

I certainly think that some of the east-west streets just north and south of downtown should be upgraded, but not into a freeway. Roads such as Oltorf should at the very least have a center turn lane, or a median. Bicycle lanes could be added simultaneously, along with sidewalk improvements. Same goes for Enfield, 35th/38th/38th1/2, 45th, etc. Think of the upgrades to Barton Springs west of Lamar, or Koenig Lane west of Airport for the type of upgrades of which I'm speaking.

The upgrades to Barton Springs and Koenig were great. Traffic is probably heavier than ever, but it is better managed due to the turning lanes. Koenig needs to somehow be given a turning lane between Lamar and Burnet, too, although there is no right of way really. Then again I thought there was no right of way for the turning lanes on the Lamar-Airport stretch and lo and behold, they wedged it in. In fact it has brought development to that stretch, a building or two have been renovated, and I actually see people sometimes walking on it (although not very often).

38th needs to be upgraded, too. If they upgraded Cesar Chavez, 38th, and Koenig, I would be happy.

[PartyLine]

[QUOTE=arbeiter;4547729]We do not need a downtown freeway. I cross from one side to the other several times a week and it's never more than 10 minutes. If I really wanted to get all the way from West to East, I would take 183 or Ben White. Downtown freeways along the waterfront are relics that are often being considered for demolition (Portland and San Francisco come to mind.)

And I wasn't talking down to you - you come on here riding a horse of arrogance, and I simply matched your tenor. This conversation is fairly useless, because your ideas are simply feckless as it relates to the current attitudes of most Austinites. Our city is doing just fine without a bunch of new freeways. While it's nowhere near as urban as I want, there is more evidence that a surplus of freeways taking traffic out of downtown does nothing but harm. I could name 15 or 20 cities that have had their CBD ruined because of overzealous suburbanites with attitudes much like yours that prevailed in the 1960's and 1970's.

Houston has freeways that run through downtown look at I45 and US 59 and DT Houston is fine not shure what you mean by it does harm but

[arbeiter]

Houston has tons of dead spots near its innermost loop. The area just north of downtown is quite depressing and empty.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by PartyLine

Houston has freeways that run through downtown look at I45 and US 59 and DT Houston is fine not shure what you mean by it does harm but

Ack! Houston is by no means fine! Or were you being sarcastic?

H-Town is practically the poster boy of sprawl and all the negatives that come with it. Ring after ring of dead suburbs, nearly-dead downtown areas only recently being revived, artificial neighborhood barriers everywhere. Houston has some nice inner-city neighborhoods, but the devastation caused by suburban flight and sprawl has made deep, deep scars that can't be fixed anytime soon. Austin has been spared from those scars.

[PartyLine]

Believe it or not downtown Austin used to be dead my dad's office used to be downtown back in the 90's you would go downtown on the weekends or in the evenings and there wasn't much activity going on except for maby 6th st. I was in Downtown Houston a few weeks ago cause we have a sales office over there and there was plenty of activity going on Downtown.

[PartyLine]

Originally Posted by arbeiter

Houston has tons of dead spots near its innermost loop. The area just north of downtown is quite depressing and empty.

Only place in the inner loop i've been to is downtown so I dunno about north of downtown or anything I usually hangout in the uptown/Galleria area when i'm over there and there's just about always people crawling around that area.

[arbeiter]

Originally Posted by PartyLine

Only place in the inner loop i've been to is downtown so I dunno about north of downtown or anything I usually hangout in the uptown/Galleria area when i'm over there and there's just about always people crawling around that area.

Well, then consider that it's not all the same as the Galleria area. Clearly it's not.

[PartyLine]

I didn't say it was

[arbeiter]

Originally Posted by PartyLine

I didn't say it was

But you used Houston as an example of innermost loops not doing any harm (I was referring to the very innermost loop, I-45 etc. right around the Wards and Neartown/Montrose, etc.)

[PartyLine]

Ahh I thought you meant 610 loop lol sorry

[wwmiv]

I'm going to be honest.

America at this point in time and foreseeable future is engaged in a culture of cars. This is a culture of individual transportation.

If I had my way with current policy, it would not be to expand public transportation at the expense of individual transportation.

We are running out of gas, therefore - in order to not let the billions spent by our government on mass individual transportation infrastructure - it would be wise to instead change the means of powering our vehicles and other transportation options.

This means investment in research.

I don't care if you think my language was incendiary, and I don't care about a few spelling mistakes (everyone makes them). Frankly, my original post wasn't incendiary - it was calm.

Yes, upgrading central east-west roads to have both more lanes and turn lanes is frankly the only solution.

San Antonio's traffic is heavy - there isn't any reason to deny that - but it moves. Apart from 1604 the traffic is not stop and go even at peak hours.

Originally Posted by Scottolini

360 as a freeway isn't as big of a deal as some make it. It already is grade separated at Bee Caves and 2222. I would fully support doing the same at the other stop lights.

I agree. How would this ruin any of the natural characteristics of the area that haven't already been ruined as a result of the pre-existing road? The toll road option that they have considered putting in would be far worse for the landscape and environment than just upgrading.

Originally Posted by SecretAgentMan

Thank you!

Please don't think I was defending you... I think M1EK is completely correct in most of the stuff he's said about Capital Metro - my take is that it has been run by buffoons.

[PartyLine]

The problem I have with making 360 a freeway is it would have to be an elevated freeway and that would just look ugly out there i'm sorry lol 360 is a nice road plus they would have to take the 360 bridge out for the freeway there's no room on the bridge for another lane there's barley a shoulder lol.

[wwmiv]

Elevated? There are only a handful of at-grade signaled intersections on 360, so 90% of what is there would remain as is. There shouldn't be a need for access roads either. There also really wouldn't be a need (and never will be a need) to expand the number of lanes because the local topography prevents major population growth on that side of town - most of what is habitable has already been built out - so the amount of space left on the Pennybacker is a moot point. Besides, there is room enough for an extra lane each way if they ever do decide to expand - the only problem is that for that short distance the shoulder margins disappear.

There are a few intersections that present some problems:
1) The two lights at Spicewood and Bluffstone would require some exquisite and unique design to keep the feel of the area. I have no doubt that it is possible to preserve the beauty of that area while upgrading the road.

2) Courtyard (the intersection just north of the river) presents major issues for any plan of an upgrade.

3) Westlake Drive also introduces a unique variable in that anything done there must preserve access to Davenport Village (My sister works as a hairdresser there at Jacques Dessange, if anyone needs to get their's done ).

The rest of the intersections, particularly the residential roads that abut 360, don't really require much done. I've found it interesting for awhile now that Austin hasn't removed the single stop light between MoPac and 290 - it is a nuisance that would be extremely easy (and cheap) to fix.

[PartyLine]

I'm just going buy what the CAMPO toll road plan was it was to make it an elevated freeway/toll road and have the lanes that are there now as free access roads my parents live out in Davenport Ranch a block from the Country club.

[Scottolini]

It's time to stop pretending 360 isn't the city, though. It's a heavily populated area, lined with with office buildings. I don't think it needs to be a full blown freeway, with frontage roads. The 360 bridge could stay the same. It could remain the same amount of lanes. Just at the handful of stop lights, do what has already been done at 2244 and 2222.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Scottolini

It's time to stop pretending 360 isn't the city, though. It's a heavily populated area, lined with with office buildings. I don't think it needs to be a full blown freeway, with frontage roads. The 360 bridge could stay the same. It could remain the same amount of lanes. Just at the handful of stop lights, do what has already been done at 2244 and 2222.

Isn't that basically what I just said? Although, I would disagree with you characterizing this as heavily populated... Populated in terms of the limits presented by the topography, but not compared to other parts of the metro.