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  #2321  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2007, 5:15 PM
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What a fucking lame name for the building.
You mean "Goldman Sachs"? Agreed; they could have come up with something inspiring and imaginative, like "The Liberty Building," or something like that...
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  #2322  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2007, 7:34 PM
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You mean the building that is already half finished? The Goldman Sachs, over 700 feet - almost exactly equal to the World Financial Tower next to it.
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  #2323  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2007, 8:54 PM
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I think it will match WFC's tallest tower and 7 WTC in height.
     
     
  #2324  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2007, 9:47 PM
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i was thinking, it should be a 1776 roof height and a 2001 spire. it makes more sense, it also makes a much larger building, and a building 1 foot taller than the tallest going up in chicago.
     
     
  #2325  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2007, 10:21 PM
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The simple fact of the matter is, NYC will probably never again have a world's tallest because the moment is announced one - as indeed it did when it said the FT would 1,776 feet tall - someone somewhere in the world would seek a name for themselves by announcing they would build even taller. It's sort of the way young kids in the Wild West sought to make a name for themselves by looking to take down a famous gunfighter...
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  #2326  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2007, 11:21 PM
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I wish that it would have been the WTB!

Yeah, you're right though. And they most certainly stole New York's thunder!!
It has been trounced twice!
     
     
  #2327  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2007, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CoolCzech View Post
The simple fact of the matter is, NYC will probably never again have a world's tallest because the moment is announced one - as indeed it did when it said the FT would 1,776 feet tall - someone somewhere in the world would seek a name for themselves by announcing they would build even taller. It's sort of the way young kids in the Wild West sought to make a name for themselves by looking to take down a famous gunfighter...
Yea, chicago probably will never have WTB again either. I doubt that it'll come back to North America in light of the Middle East and Asia's recent height hunger...
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  #2328  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2008, 9:31 AM
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The simple fact of the matter is, NYC will probably never again have a world's tallest because the moment is announced one - as indeed it did when it said the FT would 1,776 feet tall - someone somewhere in the world would seek a name for themselves by announcing they would build even taller. It's sort of the way young kids in the Wild West sought to make a name for themselves by looking to take down a famous gunfighter...
Oh come on... New York wasn't seriously attempting to build the WTB... if they were really trying they would have put up a better effort than to build the same height as the twins with a bigger stick on top. I don't say this to discredit NYC, because honestly I care much more about the design(incidentally, I don't care for that either but that's beside the point) than the numbers. In the end it's all about money which this project proves. The stick was for the symbolism(1776) and the height of the actual building was a bare minimum(at least the same as) to preserve image while not overextending in an early fear-based market.
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  #2329  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2008, 12:31 PM
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^^^^^ I do not think NYC is competing to have the WTB anymore. They only want to have the twins in some way replaced in equal symbolism and dimensions but with a plus of twins memories in some way. It is way they are not caring much to be the fastest ones to have a Supertall built. If the Budget is Ok, just replace someday the WTC with a spire on top is allright, they thought.
     
     
  #2330  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2008, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cactus22minus1 View Post
The stick was for the symbolism(1776) and the height of the actual building was a bare minimum(at least the same as) to preserve image while not overextending in an early fear-based market.

How soon people forget that for the first year or so after the attack, it wasn't clear that ANYTHING would be built at Ground Zero.

The fact remains, when it was proposed the FT would have been taller than any other building in the world. I'm not sure exactly who you think "they" are, but in America buildings are built based on 2 parts commercial demand, and (rarely) 1 part symbolism. So yeah, you're sort of right: it is "all about the money;" money is what built New York - not a bunch of politicians deciding to put up pointlessly tall buildings for the sake of their own agenda. Is there something wrong with that?

Other cities deliberately choose to build a supertall, often, in order to compete with New York, to declare that "they have arrived." New York doesn't need to "compete" with anyone; it's the goal line for everyone else. As the late, great Senator Moynihan from New York once said, "We are a model for others."

By the way, "the stick" is more massive than the outlandishly exagerated upper reaches of the BD... your silly characterization is off base.
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Last edited by CoolCzech; Jan 1, 2008 at 3:25 PM.
     
     
  #2331  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2008, 2:53 PM
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Yeah, New York has been trounced twice by Chicago - once with Sears and now with the CS.
     
     
  #2332  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2008, 4:00 PM
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i wish F/T/ had the height of UNION SQ. 118 FLOORS 1608 FEET TO THE ROOF, ANYWAY we have an elagent design between all the buildings going up
     
     
  #2333  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2008, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 2-TOWERS View Post
i wish F/T/ had the height of UNION SQ. 118 FLOORS 1608 FEET TO THE ROOF, ANYWAY we have an elagent design between all the buildings going up


And at least it's not that uglybug birdcage design that we almost ended up with!!

Last edited by Daquan13; Jan 1, 2008 at 11:49 PM.
     
     
  #2334  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2008, 10:15 PM
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CoolCzech, I'm not sure why you replied with my same sentiments as an argument- cause I agree with what you're saying for the most part(except the stick part, which looks much less a part of the building than the steel and facade continuance of the BD). To answer your question- No, there's nothing wrong with building according to need. That was my point. This was originally more of a salvage attempt disguised as a grand symbolic gesture. Years later they have realized the demand still exists- as you pointed out.

Hindsight is 20/20... I would think the FT would have been a larger project if they knew what they know now.
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  #2335  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2008, 1:32 AM
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Cactus, with all do excuse... aren't you being a little coy when you express bewilderment at my reaction to your post? The massive mast atop the FT is a mere "stick"? A roof as high as the original WTC towers is a "bare minimum?!" I think I can be excused for assuming you meant to criticize the FT quite strongly. Perhaps the FT is not a masterpiece, but I can think of only one true supertall that is - the ESB. The FT doesn't deserve to be so casually, nay, contemptuously, dismissed.

Would the tower be even taller today if they could have seen a few years ahead? I'm not so sure. Large businesses don't seem particularly interested in occupying supertall towers anymore; judging by NYC's current building boom, it may well be that no business tower taller than the FT will ever be built in The City. Left to their own devices, free of public pressure to "recapture the skyline," or a need to "make a statement," they seem to settle on roof heights of around 1,000 or so feet. If the Chicago Spire and the BD are any indication, it seems that extreme height has become a luxury housing commodity, a selling point for expensive condos. But as a practical matter - building height is effectively capped at 2,000 feet in the USA, anyway. Not to mention, Libeskind chose 1,776 feet for a specific reason that the addition of a mere 224 extra feet would have nullified.
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Last edited by CoolCzech; Jan 2, 2008 at 1:50 AM.
     
     
  #2336  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cactus22minus1 View Post
Oh come on... New York wasn't seriously attempting to build the WTB...
That's correct. The goal was to mark the height of 1,776 ft with a spire (meant to invoke the Statue of Liberty's upraised torch) and America's declaration of independence, hence the name "Freedom Tower". It just so happened that there was no taller skyscraper at the time, which would have made it world's tallest.

As an office building, it will be taller than most. In fact, the tallest towers of today are mostly residential with hotel space - not requiring the large (expensive) floors of commercial tenants.
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  #2337  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 10:54 AM
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http://www.nypost.com/seven/01032008...wer_456087.htm

FALTERING TOWER
SLOW GO ON ANTENNA, RENTS





January 3, 2008 -- IT'S good news the Port Authority finished most of the bathtub job at ground zero on time, and that Larry Silverstein will be able to start construction on towers 3 and 4 within a few weeks.

But the 1,776-foot tall Freedom Tower has been largely forgotten in the news blitz. The PA wants us to believe the project is sailing along.

But, the tower's crowning broadcast antenna seems lost in the clouds, with the PA nowhere near a deal on lease terms with TV stations which will transmit from it.

And neither of the ballyhooed office leases with government agencies for 1 million square feet of the project's 2.6 million feet, announced way back in June 2006, has yet been completed.

The good news is that the PA, which owns the $2.9 billion Freedom Tower, and architects Skidmore Owings & Merrill agree on what the antenna will look like. The shaft will constitute the project's top 408 feet.

That design, shown up-close on this page, looks a lot like the one first unveiled in the summer of 2005, when architect David Childs had to redesign the building because of security concerns.


It was suggested at the time that the final antenna design would be more "sculptural" than the original image, and later sketches and models sported various curlicued motifs.

But Childs says those ideas, which exposed the actual antenna to the air, were impractical. "A broadcast antenna is a very technical piece of equipment - it's like designing a hospital operating room," Childs said.

The more open designs would cause "rain to turn to ice, which would break and fall," and also make the antenna impossible to maintain at such a height.

So it was back to the original notion, which called for a top-to-bottom hood enclosing the actual broadcast spire.


The current design, done in consultation with sculptor Ken Snelson, shrouds the antenna in a synthetic material called Ray-dome - "very hard and permanent, but invisible to the broadcast rays that pierce through it," Childs said.

But PA Executive Director Anthony Shorris, asked where negotiations stood with the Metropolitan Broadcast Alliance, a consortium of 13 TV stations, said, "I don't have any news."

In fact, the talks are really bogged down, both over how much rent the stations are willing to pay the PA and by disagreements among the broadcasters themselves.

The negotiations "are complicated because the stations are competitors," Shorris said. "I don't want to diminish how complicated."


Pat Smith, a rep for the TV consortium, said only, "The members remain committed to broadcasting from the top of the Freedom Tower."

Meanwhile, Shorris said a lease for 600,000 square feet with the Federal General Service Administration "is not done. We're still negotiating the long-term escalations over the later years of the lease."

And while a deal with the state Office of General Services for 400,000 feet is signed, "it needs to get final approval in Albany," Shorris said.
Meanwhile, the PA has imposed a gag order on Cushman & Wakefield heavy-hitter Tara Stacom and her colleagues who are marketing the rest of the office space.

The PA says steel will begin rising above street level by June. But with construction and material costs escalating almost by the hour, it's unclear whether the job can be completed over five years within budget with out employing "value engineering" to cheapen the materials and detailing.
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  #2338  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 11:06 AM
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wtcrising.com

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  #2339  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 1:49 PM
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Is that the one that they are staying with - the one that was introduced in June '05?
     
     
  #2340  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 1:51 PM
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Image from the New York Post article...

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