[Saint John] Port Development

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Why would they want a port that close to Europe? It's much cheaper to ship to a port as close to market as possible than one ~5 hours by train east of Saint John.

It's an inane idea. Halifax and SJ are under capacity, both have extensive and very realistic expansion plans, and this would cripple both... plus strangle the Sydney plans in the cradle.

Exactly, 100%. Although it will not cripple PSJ. SJ is solid.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Is it related to the spaceport in Canos perhaps? Needing to get large shipments to the site more directly?

No, it's containers that they want. CN has purchased the line from Truro to Port Hawkesbury incase the port goes through to serve them and get the traffic.

[cdnguys]

If anything it would hurt Halifax as ships come to Saint John specifically due to rail connections. Some articles mention it would be closest port to Europe - but means absolutely nothing because ships don’t come over and turn around and go back to Europe - they are on a circular route so doesn’t matter.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Article in the TJ this morning that the Feds have received an application and are contemplating contributing 175 million to a new mega container facility in the Canso Strait near Port Hawkesbury. If built, it would be the closest North American container port to Europe and the Suez canal.

So CN is going to rebuild the rail to Port Hawkesbury, and then take business from their Halifax stronghold, hoping it all works out with their new bestie. If Halifax isn't feeling like the third wheel, this might just push them to it. It would be tough having CN as your single source rail provider. Like all the shippers who would have preferred another rail option at Halifax, I think Halifax might prefer another rail option as well right now. Maybe NBSR will buy CN out from Truro to Halifax after all the hardware is in place at Canso. JDI to the rescue again?

I guess if CN keeps Moncton as it's main yard in the region, they can pack up and move around Nova Scotia until they run out of welcomes.

[Ottawa]

We have the CGM Surabaya berthed at Rodney South and the Liverpool Express at Rodney North. I think the Surabaya is going to leave soon but it's a double ship day while it's there.

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

We have the CGM Surabaya berthed at Rodney South and the Liverpool Express at Rodney North. I think the Surabaya is going to leave soon but it's a double ship day while it's there.

Surabaya was supposed to arrive here last Saturday, traveled into the Bay of Fundy, and then turned around and went to Halifax and then came here. I've never seen that before.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Why would they want a port that close to Europe? It's much cheaper to ship to a port as close to market as possible than one ~5 hours by train east of Saint John.

It's an inane idea. Halifax and SJ are under capacity, both have extensive and very realistic expansion plans, and this would cripple both... plus strangle the Sydney plans in the cradle.

Never underestimate the persuasive powers of Cape Breton politicians.
Alan J Mceachern back in the seventies was known as the Lord of Lake Ainslie for his ability to deliver Federal largesses for inane C.B. projects.

1. Glace Bay Heavy Water plant
2. Devco Mining after Hawker Sidley pulled out
3. Sydney Steel under Provincial ownership but with Fed support
4. Port Hawkesbury Airport expansion ( so Alan J could fly a government Falcon directly home)
5. Fortress Louisburg restoration

Just to name few

Only the Fortress remains although the P.H. airport has received a second life with Private American jets flying in Golfers from NYC and Connecticut. Over 200 last year.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

If anything it would hurt Halifax as ships come to Saint John specifically due to rail connections. Some articles mention it would be closest port to Europe - but means absolutely nothing because ships don’t come over and turn around and go back to Europe - they are on a circular route so doesn’t matter.

Yes it would hurt Halifax in the short term but as Container ships have gotten larger fewer are able to transit the St Lawrence so Montreal might feel some leakage as well.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

Yes it would hurt Halifax in the short term but as Container ships have gotten larger fewer are able to transit the St Lawrence so Montreal might feel some leakage as well.

Montreal has a hard limit of 6000 TEUs. As the older ships get phased out there are going to be larger and larger ships in order to get the efficiencies demanded in the future. There is definitely going to be leakage from Montreal. I think more of Saint John's container business is going to come from Montreal initially instead of Halifax. Either way it is going to come from both eventually.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

Surabaya was supposed to arrive here last Saturday, traveled into the Bay of Fundy, and then turned around and went to Halifax and then came here. I've never seen that before.

I also saw the MSC HANNAH was supposed to come a few days ago but ended up in New York, then to Montreal, and I believe will come back to SJ after Montreal. It is scheduled for the 22nd. I think they usually stop at Corner Brook on the way from Montreal so that may be the route this time as well. A scheduling error?

[David1gray]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Some articles mention it would be closest port to Europe - but means absolutely nothing because ships don’t come over and turn around and go back to Europe - they are on a circular route so doesn’t matter.

Have a look into the Port of Prince Rupert and tell them that. Being the closest port to Asia has really worked out in their favour.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by David1gray

Have a look into the Port of Prince Rupert and tell them that. Being the closest port to Asia has really worked out in their favour.

The success of Prince Rupert is not easily transferable to Nova Scotia. When it comes to shipping, manufacturers are less concerned about the actual distance traveled, rather getting the goods to their destination on time. West Coast ports (especially LA, Long Beach) are plagued with bottle necks and Prince Rupert are capitalizing on that. It’s all about getting the goods to the shelves faster. Halifax and Saint John are under capacity so the business conditions are different. Point taken though on Prince Rupert, because most people were skeptical and look how amazing it’s doing.

[David1gray]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

The success of Prince Rupert is not easily transferable to Nova Scotia. When it comes to shipping, manufacturers are less concerned about the actual distance traveled, rather getting the goods to their destination on time. West Coast ports (especially LA, Long Beach) are plagued with bottle necks and Prince Rupert are capitalizing on that. It’s all about getting the goods to the shelves faster. Halifax and Saint John are under capacity so the business conditions are different. Point taken though on Prince Rupert, because most people were skeptical and look how amazing it’s doing.

Fair points.

Since it was mentioned previously, I will also add that the sale of CBNS to CN has not officially been announced. There have been rumblings in the railway community, and CBNS parent company Genesee & Wyoming (GWI) has been applying for some strange things with the NS UARB (See UARB matter M10803).

[FromMaine]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

Surabaya was supposed to arrive here last Saturday, traveled into the Bay of Fundy, and then turned around and went to Halifax and then came here. I've never seen that before.

Mac covered that on his Halifax ship blog-- vessel was missing a required certification and so they had to steam up to Halifax to get one via an inspection.

http://shipfax.blogspot.com/2023/07/...-surabaya.html

[cdnguys]

CN’s main line is severely washed out near Truro cutting rail service from Halifax to NB and beyond. Based on photo I saw, it won’t be a quick fix. Wondering if any ships will divert to SJ.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

CN’s main line is severely washed out near Truro cutting rail service from Halifax to NB and beyond. Based on photo I saw, it won’t be a quick fix. Wondering if any ships will divert to SJ.

I would say there is a good chance. The washout they showed on TV demonstrated the CNR mainline track dangling over a gully. There may be other damage elsewhere. I would say the line will be down for the next month at least. The VIA Ocean Limited is terminating in Moncton for the time being. I imagine Halifax bound passengers will be bussed onward.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I would say there is a good chance. The washout they showed on TV demonstrated the CNR mainline track dangling over a gully. There may be other damage elsewhere. I would say the line will be down for the next month at least. The VIA Ocean Limited is terminating in Moncton for the time being. I imagine Halifax bound passengers will be bussed onward.

Is there a way around it, or that is the only line ?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Is there a way around it, or that is the only line ?

It's the only line. Halterm is knackered.

[Ottawa]

A fourth CWR train went to Mattawamkeag on July 18th. There is still some old 'light' rail at the CSX/NBSR interchange point that is being rebuilt.

https://youtu.be/MhXHllIeqw8

There has been significant progress this summer so far. You can see in the video that old light rail still exists on this portion of the line, but there has been a lot of work in upgrading the base for the heavy rail coming. The first part of getting this in place is just laying the new rail besdie the existing track to get it in place fo the equipment that will put it in it's final position.

In spite of the world wide downturn of intermodal traffic this year, the work continues. This is a big marker in completing a significant port connection to the US.

[Ottawa]

Here is a look at the eastern end of the CSX tracks. If you go to 10:30 you see the EMR/NBSR tracks immediately in front of the trucks.

It looks like this load of CWR is going to be laid starting from this location (or VERY close by) southwest toward the rest of the CSX line. The equipment to unload the rail from the train is between the locomotives and the CWR track itself (go to 8:55). The locomotives will unhook, go to the other end of the train via the sidings, and hookup to the opposite end of the train to start pulling west and unloading. Very cool!

https://youtu.be/abpJOvogia8