EcoDensity: making Vancouver sustainable, livable, affordable

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

again , i am sorry but i am shocked by the ignorance on this forum, maybe a few course in human / social geography and some on soil sciences might help

It is true that we cold expand farmlands throughout the world... at great expense of the world's remaining natural habitats. So yes, if we want to further mass extinctions there are hugeareas of Africa and other continental masses we can clear for farms. But the problem then also become social / economic stability in those regions and the irrigation. Have you ever noticed how water is in short supply in many areas of the world? Many of them have good soils though, but not enough water....while others have plenty of water, but making them farmlands would mean tearing down huge areas of the rainforest...

And what happens if shipping prices skyrocket, or new political tensions cause massive trade wars? These are the disasters that we should be prepared for with our farmland.

And i laugh at how you state that food doesn't come from the lower mainland at any significant quantity......umm, you might want ot take a tour or two through the farmlands in Richmond, Pitt Meadows, Abbotsford, etc... they have plenty of information on just how important the Cranberry, Raspberry, Strawberry, Corn, Cabbage, etc... industries are to our region.

And your limited knowledge on this subject is once again displayed by how you took my flooding comment. Flooding is a GOOD thing for farm lands, for that is how all the nutrients in the soils were delivered there in the first place. My point was saying after removing industry from what was once farmland, it would take many successive cycles of flooding to repair them to agricultural use again.

People here should also check out their local farmer's markets, and even Save on Foods / Safeway to see actually how much produce is grown locally in the lower mainland and elsewhere in BC. Having such local produce is also a huge bonus for those who enjoy fresh fruits and vegetables.

I am sorry, but the ALR talk has often demonstrated how young and uneducated this forum is on some issues.

I thought there was an ALR thread. I can`t find it...oh well.

Eventually there is going to be a cheap way to produce electricity, and when that happens farm towers become feasible. You save a lot of land when farms are vertically stacked, plus you can grow 24 hours a day all year round, so they are way more productive than regular farms. I`m not saying that we should pave over all our farmland (we would still need some for certain crops) but technology will provide a solution for any lack of farmland problem.

[SpongeG]

i was reading about these new towers that can house birds and wildlife anad apparently the first one is being built



A nature-packed floating super park has been proposed for cities like New York and London.

The Sea Tree would be a multi-tiered structure comprising of layered green habitats especially for wildlife.

Dutch-architects Waterstudio believe they would provide valuable living areas for birds, bees, bats and other small animals.

They say new opportunities for extra city parks are rare, so open space such as rivers, seas, lakes and harbours should be utilised.

...

Waterstudio claims that the first Sea Treet will be completed by January 2014 for an undisclosed client.

...

http://web.orange.co.uk/article/quir...ned_for_cities

[WBC]

OK Metro-One if you read through this - http://www.metrovancouver.org/planni...MainReport.PDF

You will see that the lack of farmland in lower mainland is not a problem. Only about the half of the ALR land is farmed (and btw ALR is only 4% of the BC farmland). Out of the land that is farmed the most farms by area are actually "horse" farms that are farms only in the "tax" sense. The rest of the farms are small by provincial standards (roughly 1/10 of the size of an average farm in the province). Most of the farms in ALR are described as inefficient - lacking irrigation, too small etc. Of these small farms the ones that are actually economically active and viable are the ones that focus on organic food sector, have irrigation and produce high value crops or products (blueberries, cranberries, eggs, etc). Based on the estimates I could find ALR produces only about 3-4% of BC food needs.

The international trade agreements have opened Canadian market to imports meaning that these guys have no chance to compete with Mexican, Californian and other imports based on the scale and cost of labour. So unless you have a major change in world economy it is increasingly likely that you will have more an more hobby farms in ALR and that no real farming with a few exceptions will be taking place.

Let me be clear - I am not advertising that we turn over ALR into a bunch of condos. We have plenty of space elsewhere for that. All I am saying is that is is naive to think that ALR is our saviour in case of some sort of local emergency. And if economic factors change to the point that farming is profitable in Lower Mainland then let's just say that you can kiss the Skyscaper's forum goodbye.

[Echowinds]

The ALR that are not farmed are frequently places of nature though. In fact, those lands are even more "natural" than parks because people don't go in them nor do much with them. Currently, it is in our interest to keep these natural sanctuary even if they aren't really contributing to our food supply.

Furthermore, farming can become profitable in the future for technology advances that further reduce labour costs, which combined with lower transportation costs can allow profitability in the face of international pressure. In any case, the alarming loss of farmland in many regions in Asia and Africa coupled with an expected increase of over 2.5 billion people worldwide by 2050, as well as aquifer collapses in various regions can mean food supply may not necessary cover the demands of the world population. Remember, by 2050 the world will probably have a lot more affluent people that will expect food we are accustomed to (consume incredible amount of food, waste even more of it), as opposed to a subsistence diet that a fair chunk of the world population is getting by currently.

It is very likely that food costs will cost a greater percentage of our income in the future, even if society as a whole may be wealthier. This means that there are more opportunities for companies and individuals to make a profit from agriculture. Even if labour costs and economy of scale may mean greater profits elsewhere, it doesn't necessary mean that local farms can't make any profit in the market, if world demand for food increases several fold.

This is not to mention that the Lower Mainland can very well be an area that can devote significant space to high value agricultural goods that can target higher end consumptions, which can include wineries or orchards. The richness of soil in the region and the vast amount of accessible cheap, fresh water gives the Lower Mainland significant advantages as well.

[trofirhen]

.... what is the technical level of sewage disposal and treatment in Vancouver? Is it still mainly primary treatment, or have some districts got secondary treatment yet? And what about tertiary treatment (which Seattle has, I believe) wherein the wastewater becomes purified to human consumption level again?

[jlousa]

A quick google search provides your answer.

There are 3 secondary treatment plants, and 2 primary treatment plants.
The two primarys (Iona and Lions Gate) will be updated to secondary by 2030 and 2020 at the latest.
There isn't a need to go above secondary in Vancouver given it's location. Even now the two primaries dump directly into the Ocean, the ones that dump into the Fraser are already secondary.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by WBC

OK Metro-One if you read through this - http://www.metrovancouver.org/planni...MainReport.PDF

You will see that the lack of farmland in lower mainland is not a problem. Only about the half of the ALR land is farmed (and btw ALR is only 4% of the BC farmland). Out of the land that is farmed the most farms by area are actually "horse" farms that are farms only in the "tax" sense. The rest of the farms are small by provincial standards (roughly 1/10 of the size of an average farm in the province). Most of the farms in ALR are described as inefficient - lacking irrigation, too small etc. Of these small farms the ones that are actually economically active and viable are the ones that focus on organic food sector, have irrigation and produce high value crops or products (blueberries, cranberries, eggs, etc). Based on the estimates I could find ALR produces only about 3-4% of BC food needs.

The international trade agreements have opened Canadian market to imports meaning that these guys have no chance to compete with Mexican, Californian and other imports based on the scale and cost of labour. So unless you have a major change in world economy it is increasingly likely that you will have more an more hobby farms in ALR and that no real farming with a few exceptions will be taking place.

Let me be clear - I am not advertising that we turn over ALR into a bunch of condos. We have plenty of space elsewhere for that. All I am saying is that is is naive to think that ALR is our saviour in case of some sort of local emergency. And if economic factors change to the point that farming is profitable in Lower Mainland then let's just say that you can kiss the Skyscaper's forum goodbye.

Couldn't of said it any better. I think the good thing about ALR is not that it is economical today but that it creates insurance for future unexpected events such as a collapse of the global economy. Not something that can realistically be planned for but it is not a bad thing for a region to be able to feed itself if it ever needed to. Kind of like having a stash of food at home in case of a disaster. No one can predict the future and having the ability to be 100% self reliant if you are cut of from the rest of the world is priceless.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i was reading about these new towers that can house birds and wildlife anad apparently the first one is being built



A nature-packed floating super park has been proposed for cities like New York and London.

The Sea Tree would be a multi-tiered structure comprising of layered green habitats especially for wildlife.

Dutch-architects Waterstudio believe they would provide valuable living areas for birds, bees, bats and other small animals.

They say new opportunities for extra city parks are rare, so open space such as rivers, seas, lakes and harbours should be utilised.

...

Waterstudio claims that the first Sea Treet will be completed by January 2014 for an undisclosed client.

...

http://web.orange.co.uk/article/quir...ned_for_cities

You never know if those will work or not.

[SpongeG]

• Video Link

• Video Link

[logan5]

http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/3...developments/#

This story seems to indicate that the city would be willing to rezone and redevelop what looks like every arterial street in Vancouver. If there is any merit to this story, this would be a giant leap forward for the city. Or am I reading this map wrong?

[jlousa]

Practically every arterial is already upzoned, the maps includes Norquay village which was upzoned a while back, same with the Cambie corridor. This has been discussed in detail before, the issue isn't zoned capacity so much as it's economically developable density. In most cases the uplift along arterial isn't high enough to warrant redevelopment, and redevelopment will only occur at end of life of the building. That said there are some good items included in the proposal that passed today, the thin street concept is not one of them. We'll see how things play out. I hadn't include the link because it's a mind blowing 185mb but if anyone has a fast connection and wants to see the details I've placed the link below.

http://former.vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/...esentation.pdf
Caution 185MB...

[logan5]

I'm aware of Cambie and Norquay Village. I got the impression from the map that the city would like to use the Norquay Village plan as a template for other arterials where there are currently single detached homes. I was under the impression that arterials like 49th were zoned for lower density than Norquay.

[jlousa]

We'll see how things play out, each application would still require a rezoning hearing. Most arterials are already zoned C2 which allows an FSR of 2.5 and 4 floors outright, relaxable to 6 floors by the director of planning (FSR still at 2.5). I don't believe we will be seeing FSR's of 3.8 as allowed along Kingsway in Norquay. I think the biggest positive change will be allowing additional density to be landed off the arterials. That has the potential to make the biggest change to the city as it might result is development, the arterial developments are not likely to amount to much new development that wouldn't have happened regardless.

[Klazu]

Vancouver city planner Brent Toderian has been last weeks touring the Nordic Countries. Here is a presentation he held in Helsinki on how urbanism, density and city planning have been successfully applied in the City of Vancouver. I found it a very interesting and truthful presentation on why Vancouver has been so successful in these topics. Worth spending the 50 minutes to watch it.

• Video Link

[idunno]

Very interesting indeed! It's great to hear how the familiar planning concepts are connected under the city's goals.

[Vin]

Not sure where to put this, but this thread has been dead for quite a while....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQfC6mKTErg

• Video Link

Take note OV, regarding more mixed use development in the neighbourhood!

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by WBC

OK Metro-One if you read through this - http://www.metrovancouver.org/planni...MainReport.PDF

You will see that the lack of farmland in lower mainland is not a problem. Only about the half of the ALR land is farmed (and btw ALR is only 4% of the BC farmland). Out of the land that is farmed the most farms by area are actually "horse" farms that are farms only in the "tax" sense. The rest of the farms are small by provincial standards (roughly 1/10 of the size of an average farm in the province). Most of the farms in ALR are described as inefficient - lacking irrigation, too small etc. Of these small farms the ones that are actually economically active and viable are the ones that focus on organic food sector, have irrigation and produce high value crops or products (blueberries, cranberries, eggs, etc). Based on the estimates I could find ALR produces only about 3-4% of BC food needs.

The international trade agreements have opened Canadian market to imports meaning that these guys have no chance to compete with Mexican, Californian and other imports based on the scale and cost of labour. So unless you have a major change in world economy it is increasingly likely that you will have more an more hobby farms in ALR and that no real farming with a few exceptions will be taking place.

Let me be clear - I am not advertising that we turn over ALR into a bunch of condos. We have plenty of space elsewhere for that. All I am saying is that is is naive to think that ALR is our saviour in case of some sort of local emergency. And if economic factors change to the point that farming is profitable in Lower Mainland then let's just say that you can kiss the Skyscaper's forum goodbye.

Spectacular post and a really enjoyable read.
Should be required reading for those that just lap up the (mis)information/fear mongering that certain entities put out there to forward their self interests. I think some here really do need to head to their grocery store to truly see where their food really comes from, and consider as you so elequently put it, what would need to take place in order for that to change.

Honestly, there is a large group of people who really believe that most of our food is produced by farming activities within the ALR and the development of any lands within it (no matter even if its proved to be of little to no farming value) somehow threatens our food supply, and even more puzzling will save us if some natural disaster was to hit the region. That's right out of the U.S.'s playbook for justifying military actions using fear mongering/made up fictitious scenarios to push through their agendas.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by Vin

Not sure where to put this, but this thread has been dead for quite a while....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQfC6mKTErg

• Video Link

Take note OV, regarding more mixed use development in the neighbourhood!

Thanks for sharing the video! Encouraging, and I'm a little surprised that it said that 85 percent of people moving to Canada, will move either to Toronto or Vancouver in the next 25 years. Not Montreal? LOL. That's a pretty sweet city too, or Calgary?

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Vancity

Thanks for sharing the video! Encouraging, and I'm a little surprised that it said that 85 percent of people moving to Canada, will move either to Toronto or Vancouver in the next 25 years. Not Montreal? LOL. That's a pretty sweet city too, or Calgary?

Quebec as more restrictive immigration laws than the rest of Canada. Also, being predominately francophone probably lessens its appeal to many immigrants.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Vancity

Thanks for sharing the video! Encouraging, and I'm a little surprised that it said that 85 percent of people moving to Canada, will move either to Toronto or Vancouver in the next 25 years. Not Montreal? LOL. That's a pretty sweet city too, or Calgary?

You're welcome! And I also think that the same proportion of unhappy Canadians also exist in these two large urban centres due to unaffordable housing. I still believe that innovative housing and development can house people comfortably in the larger cities.

It's interesting that Quebec had traditionally attracted quite a lot of immigrants from ex-French colonies like Vietnam, Algeria, etc. Most of them were/are refugees or economic migrants. However, immigrant groups coming from the former British Empire/the Commonwealth are considerably larger and many tend to choose Toronto and Vancouver as their new homes. Nowadays, of course, the insanely urban rich migrating to Canada prefer places with established immigrant communities and sound economies. Montreal is hardly the place for most of them. Vancouver being the gateway to asia with a warmer climate, while Toronto being the financial, economic and cultural centre of Canada also have their draws. Regarding Calgary, I guess many prefer not to be in a land-locked city that is also extremely cold in the winter, despite having the best of nature, the Rockies, at their doorstep.