BC Ferries to possibly cut Horsehoe Bay - Nanaimo run

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

You don't see Metro having to pay back the province for Evergreen or the Interior having to pay back the province for the HWY#1 upgrades.

Are you saying that people should be able to travel on BC Ferries for free? 'Cause Evergreen riders will still have to pay a fare. There's a difference between the one-time capital cost incurred when you build something and the ongoing cost of operating it. (And yes, highways also have operating expenses and I don't think it would be all that unreasonable to charge motorists to drive on them.)

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

If BC Ferries cared about moving people and not just fare recovery they would add passenger only service from Nanaimo, Comox, and the Sunshine Coast directly to Waterfront.

Nope, Waterfront is for cruise ships. Tsawwassen's terminal (and deltaport) was built where they are to take traffic away from Horseshoe bay and the Waterfront.

There's always this:
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Tsa...516/story.html

Andre Lemieux proposed the idea as part of a vision that includes replacing the three ferry terminals in Nanaimo, saying it could reduce fares and cut Island crossing times in half.

A key element of Lemieux’s plan calls for approval of Kinder Morgan’s proposed twinning of its Alberta oil pipeline on the condition that it buy the Tsawwassen terminal, which removes tanker traffic from the Vancouver harbour.

Then a new ferry terminal would be built on Iona Island, adjacent to the Vancouver Airport.

In Nanaimo, Departure Bay, Duke Point and Gabriola terminals would be sold, with proceeds used to build a system of bridges across Mudge and Gabriola islands, to a new terminal on Valdes Island.

That would “reduce the distance from the mainland to Vancouver Island in half,” Lemieux said in a letter to B.C. Ferries and the transportation minister.

He estimates savings of 30 to 50 per cent, and better service.



Read more: http://www.timescolonist.com/Tsawwas...#ixzz3IprZxo98

(Note that timescolonist links never work)

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Nope, Waterfront is for cruise ships. Tsawwassen's terminal (and deltaport) was built where they are to take traffic away from Horseshoe bay and the Waterfront.

There's always this:
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Tsa...516/story.html

(Note that timescolonist links never work)

One of numerous downsides would be that service to Swartz Bay would be made worse. Iona to Swartz Bay would have to be in the neighbourhood of 2 hours.

[city-dweller]

Is that taking from house to arrival terminal time into account? (not just departure terminal to arrival terminal)

[Klazu]

What ever happened with this "plan"? I hope they scrapped the whole thing as if anything, we should have more frequent ferries between Vancouver Island and the mainland. Our population is exploding on both sides of the Strait of Georgia and there will never be a bridge built across the water, so the service should keep expanding and not the latter.

Already now the current service caps the number of visitors to Vancouver Island on long weekends when everything is always sold out.

[ronthecivil]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

BC Ferries refuses to implement passenger-only as they make a lot of money on the cars.

Even if the Massey Tunnel can handle the traffic {and with the tolls planned for it will be a real cash cow for the province which is probably why they are doing this in the first place} but how do they get thru Vancouver to the North Shore, Burnaby or downtown?

Also, due to them building the SFPR both under capacity and full of stop lights it won't be able to handle the traffic either.

Also there are a lot of walk-ons that use transit especially in the summer. How will they be served. you can't have them on buses to the Canada Line as it is already over capacity and has no extra room to spare especially with people with lots of luggage and camping gear.

BC is deliberately running BC Ferries into the ground. The more they cut service or make it more difficult to use, the lower the ridership and that gives them an excuse to further cut the service. Gabriola Island has had it's service cut so badly that the real estate market is in complete collapse. They actually stopped all ferry service after 9:00 pm, meaning you can't even go to a movie in Nanaimo and god help you if you work late.

If Gabriola Island wants to go to Nanaimo for a movie so bad, perhaps they should be so adamant about not wanting a bridge. Unlike bridges to some other places, the gap is laughably short.

Why should the rest of BC be responsible for funding what amounts to their own little gated private island?

[ronthecivil]

Originally Posted by logan5

How bout this... scrap the vehicle runs to Horseshoe Bay, but start a foot passenger only service right into downtown Vancouver. There are plenty of boats that could do that run in less than an hour.

Where are you going to dock it?

Definitely not anywhere east of the Lion's gate bridge. Inner Harbour is full......

[ronthecivil]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Nope, Waterfront is for cruise ships. Tsawwassen's terminal (and deltaport) was built where they are to take traffic away from Horseshoe bay and the Waterfront.

There's always this:
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Tsa...516/story.html

(Note that timescolonist links never work)

Now your cooking with gas!

Of course, the gulf islands association, or whatever it is called, has pretty much it's only goal to "oppose connecting the gulf islands to each other or Vancouver Island". They take that pretty seriously.

Which is a shame. You could make a really cool country drive all the way down to Saturna there. Imagine how cool an inter-island parkway would be! Hello cottage industry!

If it's too busy, up the toll on the bridge. If it's too dead, lower it. If you want your cake and to eat it too, give a discount to those living on the island.

So many ways to do it better if people had the courage to think outside the box.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by ronthecivil

Where are you going to dock it?

Definitely not anywhere east of the Lion's gate bridge. Inner Harbour is full......

The Convention Centre? Its marina space (now on the market) can accommodate ferries.

[ronthecivil]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The Convention Centre? Its marina space (now on the market) can accommodate ferries.

That would work.

Bonus points if you make it a new regional harbor and move the Seabus and Helijet there too while your at it.

Seriously no issue with me increasing the size of the water lot (so long as it doesn't impede the sea lane for the cruise ships at Canada Place) or putting in an underground route with moving sidewalks if need be to get people to the new location.

[cornholio]

The Nanaimo to Horsesho bay run is still on the chopping block. Its the main reason the Sunshine Coast fixed link is being looked at. Horseshoe bay is at capacity and in need of major upgrades (that will probably surpass a billion dollars very easily, their old estimates are way too low and they were already approaching a billion dollars). There is no space at Horseshoe bay for any construction while all runs continue to operate. The Nanaimo run would have to be cut while the terminal is reconstructed because the Langdale and Bowen Island runs cant be cut. This would still be EXTREMLY expensive and inconvenient obviously. Hence why the fixed link to Sunhsine Coast is seriously being looked at and will almost certainly be built sooner then people expect.

Assuming the fixed link to Sunhsine Coast is built the terminal wont be upgraded until after that is done and the Nanaimo run will stay.

[twoNeurons]

Lets repurpose the Port of Vancouver's Eastern terminus near McGill and squeeze in a Ferry Terminal there.

A ferry from East Van to Nanaimo would be awesome!

( I'm kidding... of course... well only partly )

[cornholio]

Just selected some quotes. There is more info out there, some of which has nto been made public. Horseshoe Bay terminal is going to be incredibly expensive just to keep running. No one wants to scrap the Nanaimo run. The goal (unofficially) is to scrap the Langdale run instead by building a fixed link to Sunshine Coast. Then Horseshoe Bay terminal can continue serving Nanaimo and Bowen Island with minimal upgrades and the Langdale terminal can be used for Nanaimo runs in the future when Horshoe Bay reaches capacity again, or during Horeshoe Bay Terminal upgrades. In other words upgrade project and operational costs/risks/complexities get knocked right back down to acceptable.

Reviewing the requirements for Horsehoe Bay terminal necessitates a review of the three routes
served from the terminal (Route 2 to Departure Bay, Route 3 to Langdale and Route 8 to Bowen
Island), and by extension, the other route serving the mid-island corridor (Route 30, which connects
Tsawwassen to Duke Point, south of Nanaimo). When viewed in this context, the Horseshoe Bay
terminal capital requirements need to be combined with the six major vessel replacements required
over the next 15 years. These combined capital requirements account for approximately $1.1 billion,
or one-third, of the 12-year Capital Plan.

Horseshoe Bay Terminal Capital Investment Challenges
The Horseshoe Bay Interim Master Concept Plan, completed in 2008, identified investments in
excess of $200 million required at the terminal in order to maintain the status quo service.
The Horseshoe Bay terminal suffers from congestion, both in the marine and shore side
terminal environments. An increased investment beyond $200 million can alleviate the shore
side terminal congestion; however, with status quo service, the marine congestion issue will
remain. The magnitude of this expenditure has raised the question as to whether alternative
investments could be made at Horseshoe Bay and other terminals to achieve greater value
and efficiencies.
Considering the challenging shoreside conditions, topography and operational constraints,
major construction activities at Horseshoe Bay carry significantly higher risk of successful
execution and of business interruption than at other terminals. Significant components in the
proposed Interim Master Plan carry large amounts of construction risk and have the potential
to drive costs significantly higher than the currently planned budget.
As shown in Table 7, the total number of daily round trips accommodated at Horseshoe Bay
across all seasons is greater than that at Tsawwassen, even though it has fewer berths. The
high frequency of sailings and narrow approach to the terminal often results in approaching
vessels slowing to allow departing ferries appropriate time to clear the bay. This imposes
delays to the ferry schedules, particularly during peak season when the number of sailings per
day is highest. Pleasure crafts also contribute to the marine congestion in Horseshoe Bay,
particularly during the peak season.

Four of the six Major Route vessels are scheduled for replacement throughout PT5 and PT6,
with the final two vessels scheduled for replacement in performance term seven (April 1, 2028
– March 31, 2032) (“PT7”). Any potential reduction in the number of replacements required
would have minimal impact until later in PT5 at the earliest. Potential capital reductions could
reduce financing expenses in PT5.

http://www.bcferrycommission.ca/wp-c...iency-Plan.pdf

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Just selected some quotes. There is more info out there, some of which has nto been made public. Horseshoe Bay terminal is going to be incredibly expensive just to keep running. No one wants to scrap the Nanaimo run. The goal (unofficially) is to scrap the Langdale run instead by building a fixed link to Sunshine Coast. Then Horseshoe Bay terminal can continue serving Nanaimo and Bowen Island with minimal upgrades and the Langdale terminal can be used for Nanaimo runs in the future when Horshoe Bay reaches capacity again, or during Horeshoe Bay Terminal upgrades. In other words upgrade project and operational costs/risks/complexities get knocked right back down to acceptable.

http://www.bcferrycommission.ca/wp-c...iency-Plan.pdf

As I read the definition of (operational) efficiency in your B.C. Ferries attached paper (as being in part a function of meeting desired service level need) I couldn't help but wonder what if a Powell River resident with a car were to be desirous of mid night (ferry) service home (from say Vancouver or Victoria) how would he get home before daylight? That's why I think that a highway connection from the lower mainland to the Sunshine Coast and then to Campbell River on the island is of critical importance! In the wider scheme of things proper highways are critical for protecting the welfare of communities in need of quick/effective access to fire, police or medical services.

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by ronthecivil

Where are you going to dock it?

Definitely not anywhere east of the Lion's gate bridge. Inner Harbour is full......

There are at least three (3) Victoria/Vancouver foot ferries services planned for the near future and they're all aiming for downtown.

Here are links for two companies I know of

https://v2vvacations.com/

http://www.riversidemarine.com.au/

Ferries board discussion

http://ferriesbc.proboards.com/threa...tos-discussion

And don't forget that Hope Springs Eternal in Nanaimo

http://www.westerninvestor.com/news/...vice-1.2345571

[red-paladin]

I moved the Sunshine Coast fixed link posts to the appropriate thread.

[ronthecivil]

Originally Posted by Conrad Yablonski

There are at least three (3) Victoria/Vancouver foot ferries services planned for the near future and they're all aiming for downtown.

Here are links for two companies I know of

https://v2vvacations.com/

http://www.riversidemarine.com.au/

Ferries board discussion

http://ferriesbc.proboards.com/threa...tos-discussion

And don't forget that Hope Springs Eternal in Nanaimo

http://www.westerninvestor.com/news/...vice-1.2345571

So long as they dock west of the Lion's gate bridge, that's fine.

If they plan on docking on the east side, don't buy shares in that company.

Anything going through there will have to wait for...

A) Dangerous good traffic under the bridge.

B) Cruise ships.

C) The seabus.

Those will have priority for sure over whatever they are proposing. Also don't forget the huge amount of ships that service the numerous terminals in the areas.

In other words, kiss any promises of a schedule good bye.

If they say otherwise, they are either lying or deluded......

[SpongeG]

i used the dep bay to horseshoe on wednesday, we left at 3:00 and got to horseshoe bay at 4:45 pm

It always used to be a 90 minute trip, but the last few months it has been taking a lot longer, one day it went north of bowen island and took just over 2 hours to get from horseshoe bay to nanimo.

have they slowed the ferry down or something? when i lived on the island in the 90's it never seemed so slow as it does now

[David]

I've lived on the Island for 4 years and it's been around 1hr45min as long as I remember

[SpongeG]

it used to be 1 hour and 35 minutes at the most, that was back in 1991 though

i am moving off the island next month, i will miss it but i won't miss the ferry, its so boring lol