What would you do with portage place?

[oftheMoon]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Is a replacement for the MTS Centre really in the cards? Part of TNSE's supposed genius on their approach to bringing the NHL back to Winnipeg is having a smaller arena that sells out constantly with a long waiting list for tickets. Even in other cities like Edmonton the increase in seating in the new building is fairly marginal. But that said, if it actually happens I'd imagine the wheels won't start turning for at least another decade, and then it's probably at least another 5 years for design and construction.

In theory I'm OK with using the Portage Place site for a new arena if that's what it came to, but would it even fit on that site? And if it fits, aren't there an awful lot of going concerns standing in the way that would need to be purchased and closed to make way for an arena? Between the mall, the offices, the parkade, the several apartment blocks, Prairie Theatre Exchange, the Y and whatever else, that's an awful lot standing in the way. I'm not sure that it would be viable.

As for The Bay, isn't it just as narrow as the MTS Centre's site? In other words, it confers no real advantage over the existing arena site. I'm not sure that it would work there either.

I'm just saying that at some point, the arena will need to be replaced...or not? But it seems all arenas (except maybe MSG) have a shelf life and get replaced with a more modernized building. I'm sure we're 15 - 20+ years from that, but something to have some fun with.

Having said that, if a new state of the art 16,000 seat arena could fit on The Bay site, that'd be pretty sweet with all that's happening with the Graham strip...

Anyway, back to PP. Realistically, putting some mixed use on top of it would be perfect. See what happens with the Wpg Sq. apartment and model after that.

[Urban recluse]

The more retail that gets pushed out, and re-opens in buildings around downtown with storefronts, the better.

[optimusREIM]

I think that Portage Place can function as a mall but only if the lower floor gets street front retail spaces and they develop the pad sites into fairly substantial residential components. The mall also needs residents to come in from all around. Hopefully as more people start living downtown it will build enough critical mass to save the retail sector. I see the mall being the lynchpin retail hub for a rejuvenated downtown. might take a few years though.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The design of the Portage Place street-fronting CRU was flawed from the start. The reason most of the street entrances are no longer used is the spaces ended up lacking the backroom space almost every CRU uses. Further, the dual entrances created theft and overall security issues for the retail. Look at Shoppers that is still relatively new to Portage Place. They tried to due the street entrance correct and have a cashier stationed right there. That didn't last very long before it went back to permanently closed.

Originally Posted by Cyro

Have to agree with your take on the layout/problems with the CRU'S security etc. It may have worked for a time, but it just won't fly in today's environment.

Exactly, it's more a problem with the environment than the design, backroom aside. You could also just build a "side room" if you needed storage space.

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

The more retail that gets pushed out, and re-opens in buildings around downtown with storefronts, the better.

Agreed. I actually think it'd be best to have retail on the second floor due to the traffic, it's way busier than the main floor. Make the main floor north side all offices/services, close off the Portage-facing store entrances on the mall side and then you have proper streetfront CRUs with space for a backroom and only one entrance.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Agreed. I actually think it'd be best to have retail on the second floor due to the traffic, it's way busier than the main floor. Make the main floor north side all offices/services, close off the Portage-facing store entrances on the mall side and then you have proper streetfront CRUs with space for a backroom and only one entrance.

FWIW the main floor is still mostly all retail while the second floor has been reduced to mostly small local retailers (I'm guessing on month to month leases) and office space conversions. If anything it's the main floor that will likely remain retail...

[CoryB]

For the main floor retail to work it either needs to be street facing or mall facing, not trying to be both. Also significant main floor retail space was lost when Service Canada took over the old McNally/Birks space.

I still sort of wish they would convert the main floor to something like The Forks Commons but potentially opening to patios on Portage Ave in place of the street fronting CRU. Have Shoppers relocate to the existing food court in a straight trade for space. Instead of the standard food court entries sign shorter term leases and become an incubator for people with new ideas to try in the food service space, sort of similar to food trucks but with even lower start up costs. The short lease though would be to promote people to get their concept through a viability test and on to another site or a food truck so someone new can have their spot. Having this rotating offerings would hopefully drive customers sense that there is always something fresh and new to see there.

That said, I sort of doubt that concept will happen. I thought the Forks was going to nail it with their commons project only to see the same tired old Skinners in a prominent location there.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by esquire

FWIW the main floor is still mostly all retail while the second floor has been reduced to mostly small local retailers (I'm guessing on month to month leases) and office space conversions. If anything it's the main floor that will likely remain retail...

I realize that that's kind of what they forced, but I think they should have gone the other route.

[vjose32]

Street front retail spaces like what? It's not like there is any parking on the front anyway so I'm not sure something like that makes sense. If people aren't going there as is I'm not sure changes like that will make a difference

[1ajs]

portage place needs a vision and a staff to carry out the vission right now i think its just steady as she goes instead of yes we can

[biguc]

Originally Posted by vjose32

Street front retail spaces like what? It's not like there is any parking on the front anyway so I'm not sure something like that makes sense. If people aren't going there as is I'm not sure changes like that will make a difference

I take it you've never been to a city before.

[buzzg]

There actually is parking in front of it on the West side, an across the street, and all along the Promenade. Also, most of the people there have probably walked from their work or home. So I really think parking there is a non-issue, for the mall operations at least.

It's pretty clear that nothing of significance will happen to PP until The Forks redevelopment is well under way and TFNP can afford to sell the PP Parkade. Until they have more revenue streams, that parkade is staying with them, and there's no chance of more residential there.

[Jets4Life]

I would set it on fire, and burn it to the ground.


Or turn it into a waterpark...

[esquire]

I heard rumors recently suggesting that there have been potential buyers coming through town to kick the tires on Portage Place... But what I haven't been able to find out is whether PIG is ready to entertain offers for it.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by esquire

I heard rumors recently suggesting that there have been potential buyers coming through town to kick the tires on Portage Place... But what I haven't been able to find out is whether PIG is ready to entertain offers for it.

Interesting. I wonder what the plans would be for it, or remain status quo. Cause really they replace tiles mismatched. The escalators run the wrong way. The decor hasn’t been touched in the 30 years since it opened. Maybe it past the point of no return but even ten years ago it was far more successful retail wise then it is today.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Interesting. I wonder what the plans would be for it, or remain status quo. Cause really they replace tiles mismatched. The escalators run the wrong way. The decor hasn’t been touched in the 30 years since it opened. Maybe it past the point of no return but even ten years ago it was far more successful retail wise then it is today.

At this point I would almost convert all of it into office space and then exponentially expand the food-court. Just office, food court, and restaurants... I know it's not exciting but I think it would be within the realm of realism.

[peg]

I honestly think Portage Place has potential.. its a nice space physically, just depressing with its lack of stores and some of its dated aesthetics (though I do still love the fountains and mall plants ).

Of all the downtown malls I think it has the most potential to be beautiful, as it has large open spaces and natural light. With a little vision it could be amazing. I would be sad to see it become mostly offices.

[buzzg]

There's been multiple tire kickers over the last few years, but until TFNP is ready to sell the property and the parkade, there's no chance anyone will buy it.

I'd guess 2–5 years out. TFNP won't part with it until Railside is generating enough revenue to offset the loss of the land rental and parkade revenue.

[goldenboi]

cut it in half

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by buzzg

There's been multiple tire kickers over the last few years, but until TFNP is ready to sell the property and the parkade, there's no chance anyone will buy it.

I'd guess 2–5 years out. TFNP won't part with it until Railside is generating enough revenue to offset the loss of the land rental and parkade revenue.

this is what I don't understand. if TFNP sold the asset at a price that reflected the present value of that income stream [a big price no doubt], could they not take that money and use it to generate a replacement income stream?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

this is what I don't understand. if TFNP sold the asset at a price that reflected the present value of that income stream [a big price no doubt], could they not take that money and use it to generate a replacement income stream?

You'd think. They could also bundle such a project with some other to make it more efficient overall. Maybe another hotel at the forks or something.