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  #1  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 5:27 AM
WannabeLandscapeArch WannabeLandscapeArch is offline
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Revitalization of the Prince of Wales Bridge

Hello all,

Please let me share an idea I had the other day.


As many of you know, "black bridge" extending from bayview station across the Ottawa river to aylmer is one of the sketchiest places in Ottawa. But I would also argue that it holds some of the nicest views and highest potential to be renovated as a pedestrian walk. I was just wondering if I am out to lunch and would love to hear everyone's comments on the idea, negative or positive. With significant retrofitting, lighting, and surveillance I feel there is potential for something special
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  #2  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 5:44 AM
Urbanarchit Urbanarchit is offline
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The Prince of Wales Bridge is of historical significance, and it would be worthwhile fixing it up for people to walk (and possibly to bike?) across, with better access to the park (which could be beautified) similar to the highline.

At the same time, I'd like to see interprovincial transit here.
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  #3  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 6:07 AM
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I would love to see the O-train connect to Rapibus along it.
Both sides of the river have more industrial use here than housing, not to mention the bridge would be fairly separated from everything but riverside paths. Until and unless a large scale development happens right at the end of the bridge the amount of potential users may be limited, bringing to mind security concerns and a question of whether such a connection is necessary, considering there is a crossing a kilometre away along Booth.
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  #4  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 3:42 PM
emannigol emannigol is offline
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I'm quite sure this is planned for in the city's transportation master plan:

"Passed Motion To: WHEREAS works to implement a multi-use pathway structure to the Prince of Wales Bridge to provide a connection between the Ottawa and Gatineau cycling and pedestrian networks has been identified as a TMP Phase 1 project in the 2014 to 2019 period; and WHEREAS funding for the City of Ottawa’s share of the Prince of Wales multi-use pathway structure is estimated to be approximately $3 million and is to come from the $13-million budget envelope earmarked for cycling and pedestrian structures in Phase 1 of the TMP; and WHEREAS the $8.2 million in funding for the Rideau River Pedestrian Bridge (Donald Street – Somerset Street) is to also come from the same $13-million envelope; and WHEREAS a multi-use pathway bridge over Rideau Canal at Clegg Street and Fifth Avenue requires funding in excess of the $13 million in 2013 dollars earmarked for cycling and pedestrian structures in Phase 2 of the TMP; and WHEREAS public consultation has shown that there is good support for advancing all of the multi-use pathway structures indentified as providing significant connectivity improvements to the pedestrians and cyclists network, including, in the case of Clegg Street and Fifth Avenue, improved access to the redeveloped Lansdowne Park; and WHEREAS the Prince of Wales project is contingent on establishing a funding partnership amongst the City of Ottawa, the City of Gatineau and the National Capital Commission; and WHEREAS the initial TMP estimate for the Rideau Canal project is subject to a value engineering exercise; THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that, following the approval of the TMP, staff be directed to seek a partnership funding agreement for the Prince of Wales Bridge project at the earliest opportunity"
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  #5  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 3:42 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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It would definitely be best suited for interprovincial transit - extending the O-Train line northward after a major rehabilitation of the bridge (with structural and seismic upgrades) and a passing track on Lemieux Island in the interim. However, due to the historic significance, the bridge should NOT be replaced if possible.

If the Trillium Line (then misnamed) is twinned, then a new bridge should be built immediately to the west of the historic bridge.
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  #6  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 5:12 PM
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I would just convert to a bus bridge. Why force the Gatineau citizens to transfer at Alexandre-Taché onto a train just to transfer again on another train as soon as they cross the river?
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  #7  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I would just convert to a bus bridge. Why force the Gatineau citizens to transfer at Alexandre-Taché onto a train just to transfer again on another train as soon as they cross the river?
Never thought of this before, but now that you mention it, ya, that does sound like the best option for connectivity, just extend the Rapibus transitway down to Bayview using the PoW bridge.
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  #8  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 5:40 PM
citydwlr citydwlr is offline
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Never thought of this before, but now that you mention it, ya, that does sound like the best option for connectivity, just extend the Rapibus transitway down to Bayview using the PoW bridge.
Neat idea, but would they not have to build an extension on one side so buses could travel both ways? I don't think the current bridge is wide enough for two buses to fit side-by-side...
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  #9  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 5:50 PM
WannabeLandscapeArch WannabeLandscapeArch is offline
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I agree that it's width is ideally suited to being a pedestrian/bike friendly connection and I imagine it would require significant structural retrofitting in addition to support the weight of buses. It would also need to be widened to accommodate two lanes of buses. I think it's interesting that they're looking into it and I'm excited to see how it progresses!

Last edited by WannabeLandscapeArch; Dec 12, 2014 at 7:25 PM.
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  #10  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 5:58 PM
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Originally Posted by citydwlr View Post
Neat idea, but would they not have to build an extension on one side so buses could travel both ways? I don't think the current bridge is wide enough for two buses to fit side-by-side...
They would have to, considering length of the bridge. But this is not a new concept; we did the same thing with the Interprovincial Bridge (added overhangs on both sides for bikes/pedestrians and north bound cars) and the "Pont Noir" over the Gatineau River, railway bridge since it's completion, they converted the main bridge for buses (one lane with traffic lights on both sides to control direction throughout the day) and added an overhang to re-route the trains.
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  #11  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 6:17 PM
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I wonder how keen the City of Gatineau would be to funding an STO transportation corridor on the Prince of Wales bridge?
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  #12  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 6:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
They would have to, considering length of the bridge. But this is not a new concept; we did the same thing with the Interprovincial Bridge (added overhangs on both sides for bikes/pedestrians and north bound cars) and the "Pont Noir" over the Gatineau River, railway bridge since it's completion, they converted the main bridge for buses (one lane with traffic lights on both sides to control direction throughout the day) and added an overhang to re-route the trains.

Actually, the Alexandra bridge was built with and for three decks - they weren't add-ons. I think that the weight of the buses would be too much to add onto a bridge which wasn't conceived for it. A bike path, however, would be more plausible.



The fact that it's pretty far from downtown makes it a less-than-ideal connection for Gatineau residents: the two options are transfers or split frequency and neither of them is very good. It could, however, replace the rush-hour 200 bus to Ottawa, but anything outside of that (not rush-hour) is impractical.
It could be valuable for south or west-Ottawa residents making their way to downtown Hull with an O-Train connection. For Gatineau, for it to be both practical and politically possible, any rapid transit lines would have to pass through Hull first and foremost which means that we would need transit priority on downtown bridges.
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  #13  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 7:09 PM
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The Pont Noir on the Rapibus is actually quite interesting. I'm rather astounded by the way they did it...
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  #14  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 7:38 PM
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Astonished might be the right word. Yesterday afternoon, my sister took a bus in the wrong direction and ended up at a Rapibus station in Gatineau. "That's fine" I thought, "we're only four stations away".

HOWEVER, because of the friggn Pont Noir and the STO's commitment to a truly shocking service, the Rapibus becomes a one-way "'rapid transit'" line. It took her almost an hour to do what should have been a 5-minute max trip, if the quarter billion dollars we spent on this white elephant was worth anything, anything at all.




It's definitely astonishing.
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  #15  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2014, 7:59 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
Actually, the Alexandra bridge was built with and for three decks - they weren't add-ons. I think that the weight of the buses would be too much to add onto a bridge which wasn't conceived for it. A bike path, however, would be more plausible.



The fact that it's pretty far from downtown makes it a less-than-ideal connection for Gatineau residents: the two options are transfers or split frequency and neither of them is very good. It could, however, replace the rush-hour 200 bus to Ottawa, but anything outside of that (not rush-hour) is impractical.
It could be valuable for south or west-Ottawa residents making their way to downtown Hull with an O-Train connection. For Gatineau, for it to be both practical and politically possible, any rapid transit lines would have to pass through Hull first and foremost which means that we would need transit priority on downtown bridges.
A converted Prince of Wales Bridge would be more for connections to and from destinations that do not include downtown Ottawa, especially to the south and west.

Although it requires a fair amount of work, it could probably be done fairly quickly as there is no need to schedule around an existing transit schedule means they can work 24/7 on the project so it might be doable in one construction season. Only once will they need to close the Trillium Line, and that would be probably only for one weekend to connect the extension to the existing line at Bayview.

The work required:

* Refurbish the bridges, with seismic upgrades and structural improvements (if necessary which I think they are)
* Convert the track to continuously welded rail to maintain the same standards as the existing line
* Construct a passing track on Lemieux Island (the only place to fit it)
* Renovate the warehouse at Eddy/Tache (whichever is chosen) to construct a new station
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  #16  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2014, 12:33 AM
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* Renovate the warehouse at Eddy/Tache (whichever is chosen) to construct a new station
Does anyone know if the train could actually connect at Tache-UQO? And do trains use that track along the Rapibus corridor through Gatineau? Seems like the perfect thing to build an interprovincial transit agency for.
They could even put their headquarters on Chaudiere so that they're right in the middle.
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  #17  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2014, 5:04 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by silvergate View Post
Does anyone know if the train could actually connect at Tache-UQO? And do trains use that track along the Rapibus corridor through Gatineau? Seems like the perfect thing to build an interprovincial transit agency for.
They could even put their headquarters on Chaudiere so that they're right in the middle.
Yes, but it would not be desirable. There is much more ridership to be made in downtown Hull than at UQO, especially from Ontario.
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  #18  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2014, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by silvergate View Post
Does anyone know if the train could actually connect at Tache-UQO? And do trains use that track along the Rapibus corridor through Gatineau? Seems like the perfect thing to build an interprovincial transit agency for.
They could even put their headquarters on Chaudiere so that they're right in the middle.
Their is a track running parallel to the Rapibus the whole way through, however, it is single track, used on a fairly regular basis by freight trains and would require significant investment in making it a repaid transit corridor. Plus, the Rapibus itself, which cost upwards of 300 million dollars, would be useless, or more so than what it is today.

Best bet for proper Interprovincial Transit would be a conversion of the Rapibus 30 years down the line into a true rapid transit rail corridor and a tunnel (similar to the Transitway conversion with new rights of way between the gaps) from Alexandre-Taché, though Hull all the way to Rideau.
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  #19  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2014, 6:22 PM
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The Pont Noir definitely should be looked at for a twinning. Travelling between the Hull and Gatineau sectors between 6 and 9 and the other way from 3 to 6 is an absolute disaster. At most times getting from most areas from the Gatineau sector to the downtown Hull sectors it takes 30-35 minutes whilist during the counter peak period it takes about an hour if not more. STO seriously needs to think about the counter-peak service next year and not just the peak direction (100 and 200 and restoring express routes). Right now it has the worst service level since at least the mid-1990s

Just for comparison there are 4-5 buses an hour connecting the Hull sector to the Gatineau sector in the morning peak (before the Rapibus there were 12 trips per hour connecting the two sectors in the counter peak direction). 2 on route 57 but meanders in local streets before its eastern terminus, 1 on route 810 and 1 or 2 on route 33 which does a huge detour through several local areas and in the morning has a random schedule basically (random intervals such as 28 minutes, 57 minutes, 47 minutes, 25 minutes, etc). Route 300 which is the replacement of the 65-67-77 as well as the counter-peak replacement of the off-peak route 400 does a huge detour via Ottawa and does not have a stop in the Hull sector aside from Place d'Accueil (start/end point). One observation is why they don't use some of the 100's for returning trips from Labrosse to the downtown Hull sector instead of deadheading OOS while basically using almost the same route. This would be greatly helpful and not too much costly. Also it wouldn't be too complicated to have counter-peak trips on route 68 (using the 5 and 50 in the counter-peak direction) to ease the crowding on route 33 as well as returning the terminus of route 64 at Freeman also.
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Last edited by Cre47; Dec 13, 2014 at 6:37 PM.
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  #20  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2014, 10:10 PM
Mr.Flintstone Mr.Flintstone is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Their is a track running parallel to the Rapibus the whole way through, however, it is single track, used on a fairly regular basis by freight trains and would require significant investment in making it a repaid transit corridor. Plus, the Rapibus itself, which cost upwards of 300 million dollars, would be useless, or more so than what it is today.

Best bet for proper Interprovincial Transit would be a conversion of the Rapibus 30 years down the line into a true rapid transit rail corridor and a tunnel (similar to the Transitway conversion with new rights of way between the gaps) from Alexandre-Taché, though Hull all the way to Rideau.

Which part of the rail is use for freights? They seem to have ripped out some part of the rail to make way for the rapibus corridor. I would like to see some type of train transit run down that corridor instead of buses.
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