HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1381  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2017, 5:12 AM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 500
The funny thing is, I drive on Hunt Club almost every day during rush hour and traffic is literally never backed West of 416 where they want to widen it. It's between 416 and Greenbank where it's often bad.
I imagine once they widen it new influx of cars will make things even worse.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1382  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2017, 4:52 PM
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Stittsville, ON
Posts: 1,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzptichka View Post
The funny thing is, I drive on Hunt Club almost every day during rush hour and traffic is literally never backed West of 416 where they want to widen it. It's between 416 and Greenbank where it's often bad.
I imagine once they widen it new influx of cars will make things even worse.
I suspect it is more preparatory than anything else, anticipating more demand due to growth in the region.

Now the better solution would be to figure out ways to get more of those people to use transit.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1383  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2017, 5:42 PM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,727
Quote:
...River Street, which connects the Lemieux Island water purification plant with the Sir John A. Macdonald parkway will be officially named Onigam Street on November 20. The name Onigam, Algonquin for “portage” was arrived at after collaboration between the Algonquins of Ontario, Kitchissippi Councillor Jeff Leiper and the City of Ottawa as part of the ongoing City process of re-naming duplicate streets...
http://kitchissippiward.ca/content/o...ampaign=buffer
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1384  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2017, 1:43 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 159
Did anyone go to the Albert-Slater Open House??

What are the plans like? Any photos?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1385  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2017, 2:20 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multi-modal View Post
Did anyone go to the Albert-Slater Open House??

What are the plans like? Any photos?








source
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1386  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2017, 2:52 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,482
That Bronson intersection desperately needs a roundabout.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1387  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2017, 2:52 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 159
Thank you! This is all very interesting. Most good I think, some missed opportunities and weird sections. A lot to digest...

*Edit - To start I'll say that I think the Ultimate Configuration is pretty good... the transit stops are well done, with the cycling behind the new shelters, and overall things look well thought-out. The segment of bi-directional cycling on Bronson baffles me: why not one-way bike lane to match north of Albert? Or if you are doing bi-directional on the west side of Bronson, then why not make a little bi-directional connection on the north side of Albert to Commissioners?

The interim configuration could use some work. The transit stop design is much worse, and on the Mackenzie King bridge they put planters between the bike lanes and the sidewalk rather than between the bike lane and the vehicle lanes (where they are more needed).

Last edited by Multi-modal; Nov 29, 2017 at 3:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1388  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2017, 3:10 PM
Kitchissippi's Avatar
Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 3,048
So they're expecting cyclists to switch from the right side lane to the centre in the middle of the M-K bridge? Seems kind of weird.

Personally, I'd rather see the bike lanes on the left side lanes of Albert and Slater, and have the switchover done on the Bronson end, possibly with some sort of underpass configuration. I actually like riding on the left side lanes on one-way streets because you ar closer to the driver side of vehicles, making cyclists more visible, and left hand turns are easily signalized.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1389  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2017, 3:16 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
Personally, I'd rather see the bike lanes on the left side lanes of Albert and Slater, and have the switchover done on the Bronson end, possibly with some sort of underpass configuration. I actually like riding on the left side lanes on one-way streets because you ar closer to the driver side of vehicles, making cyclists more visible, and left hand turns are easily signalized.
I agree, I wish they had left it in this configuration - added benefit is you don't need to worry about transit / cycling conflicts. I don't think they would have needed an underpass, lots of ways to make the Bronson area work.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1390  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2017, 5:59 PM
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Stittsville, ON
Posts: 1,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
That Bronson intersection desperately needs a roundabout.
It would be good if they could, but I am not sure how feasible it is with the hill and the buildings that are nearby.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1391  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2017, 6:46 PM
Kitchissippi's Avatar
Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 3,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multi-modal View Post
I agree, I wish they had left it in this configuration - added benefit is you don't need to worry about transit / cycling conflicts. I don't think they would have needed an underpass, lots of ways to make the Bronson area work.
I was thinking more along the lines of building a bridge-like ramp structure for cars instead of pure earthworks. This could actually help link that triangular lot and the escarpment land (reclaimed from moving Slater street) to the proposed library site. Travelling westward, cars would remain a bit higher longer and descend steeper, while bikes and pedestrians would have a gentler grade. Aesthetically, it could accentuate the escarpment as a continuous geological feature.

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1392  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2017, 9:35 PM
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Stittsville, ON
Posts: 1,694
Here is a link to the Albert-Slater Open House slide presentation:

  • http://catherinemckenney.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Albert-Slater-POH-Presentation-28-Nov-2017.pdf
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1393  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2017, 1:08 AM
waterloowarrior's Avatar
waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
National Capital Region
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 8,136
Reconfiguration of Scott and Albert Streets after removal of reserved bus lanes (Smirle Avenue to City Centre Avenue)
Functional Design Study
https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/publi...avenue#1080150

Open House: December 11, 2017

6 to 8:30 p.m.
Tom Brown Arena - Hall
141 Bayview Road

Functional plan

As a heavily used cross-town bikeway route, the ultimate configuration of cycling facilities along Scott and Albert Streets will be separated unidirectional cycle tracks with separate sidewalks. This project represents the first phase of the evolution, which will continue as future infrastructure and re-development projects occur along this corridor.

Goals of this project:
  • To provide cyclists with a unidirectional cycling facility on each side of the road’s right-of-way over the full length of the corridor
  • To provide better buffering between cyclists/pedestrians and vehicle traffic along the eastbound direction, and to improve turning sight-lines between drivers and eastbound cyclists.
  • To reduce conflicts between cyclists and pedestrians on the existing MUP.

Addition of bike lanes to the Albert Street bridge and its approaches will provide a continuous east-west facility. Space for the lanes will be gained when the bus-detour arrangement (1 general-use lane/1 bus-only lane per direction) is replaced with three general-use lanes (2 westbound, 1 eastbound).

The three-lane operation is being extended to the west of Bayview Avenue to provide space for extra separation (buffer from motor vehicles) for the eastbound bike lane. Westbound cyclists will use the adjacent multi-use pathway in the Scott corridor, during the early part of the evolution. The MUP will still be shared with pedestrians but, over the long term, separation between cyclists and pedestrians will be increased.

Increasing the buffer space for eastbound cyclists also shifts the moving traffic further from the neighbouring homes to the south than today.

The three-lane operation of Scott Street between Smirle Avenue and Bayview Road may be revisited in the future, pending re-development plans along the corridor which may require reinstatement of the second eastbound general-use lane.

The plan is to change operation of the multi-use pathway on the north side of Scott, in order to reduce the opportunity for conflicts with pedestrians. Cycling is proposed to be westbound only on the multi-use pathway. The eastbound cyclists will be directed to the improved eastbound bike lane.

Single-direction cycling operation is the default standard mode being adopted by the City for separated cycling facilities. This ensures predictable operations, particularly at signalized intersections. It also is necessary for the evolution as the intersections along the corridor will be converted to the so-called “protected intersection” design

The proposed cycling facilities are as follows:

On the south side of Scott Street
  • From Smirle Avenue to the approach to the Holland intersection: eastbound bike lane with painted buffer and seasonal flex posts.
  • On both sides of the Holland intersection and extending to east of the bus stop at Holland: eastbound raised cycle track as part of a protected intersection
  • From east of the bus stop at Holland Avenue to Bayview Road: an eastbound bike lane separated from the nearest motor vehicle lane. Separation proposed is an enhanced painted buffer space containing either a line of precast curbs or parking bays.

On the north side of Scott Street
  • From Bayview Avenue to the approach to the Holland intersection: westbound-only operation on the multi-use pathway (MUP)
  • A mixed crossride at the Hinchey intersection to permit riding across for the westbound cyclists on the MUP
  • On both sides of the Holland intersection and extending to the location of bike racks for Tunney’s Pasture Station: westbound raised cycle track as part of a protected intersection
  • From the bike racks to Goldenrod Driveway: bidirectional multi-use pathway.

Furthermore, the Scott/Holland intersection will be made into a protected intersection with separate crossings and signals for cyclists and pedestrians.

On Albert Street (both sides)
  • Between Bayview Avenue and the east end of the bridge over the Trillium Line: bike lane.
  • Between the east end of the bridge over the Trillium Line to City Centre Avenue: raised cycle tracks.
  • A crossing of Albert Street at Bayview Station
  • (Details of the crossing are subject to the pending development on Albert Street, opposite to Bayview Station.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1394  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2017, 4:54 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,595
City AG questions quality of asphalt used for pothole repairs

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: November 30, 2017 | Last Updated: November 30, 2017 4:53 PM EST


The city could be buying loads of crummy asphalt, based on the results of an investigation by the auditor general.

In fact, the city wasn’t even testing asphalt for its small road projects outside the winter months to make sure the material was meeting contracted standards, the audit revealed.

Auditors, who tabled their report during an audit committee meeting on Thursday, tested samples from two suppliers and neither met the requirements set in the city’s contract.

It might be only two samples, but the fact that both failed to meet the specifications is “concerning,” according to the audit.

The audit didn’t include winter maintenance contracts, but when the roads branch tested another asphalt sample as part of the 2016-2017 winter maintenance program, it found another substandard sample, prompting the branch to re-tender the contract.

Taking samples of asphalt for lab tests can cost $3,000 a shot, but auditors warn that not doing the tests could mean the city could be paying for bad asphalt.

(The infrastructure department, which buys much more asphalt and is separate from the roads branch, tests the material it receives for major projects, such as road resurfacing).

Part of the problem might be that the roads branch isn’t requesting the right type of asphalt.

“We set a standard that’s higher for pothole asphalt than what we used to pave all our roads,” city manager Steve Kanellakos said after the committee meeting, “so the three per cent of asphalt we buy to do potholes has a higher standard than the roads asphalt we drive on.”

There needs to be one standard for asphalt and the city needs to test it, Kanellakos said.

“I’m concerned we weren’t testing it, but I’m not concerned about the quality of the asphalt for our potholes,” he said.

Mayor Jim Watson has asked city management to consider opening an asphalt plant since there are few companies that make the material, hurting price competition and potentially decreasing quality of the product.

Kanellakos said an asphalt plant is worth considering as a way to “counterbalance the lack of competitiveness” in the market.

Auditors discovered the city doesn’t care much about the one-year warranty on pothole asphalt, but that doesn’t bother them since there’s no easy way to track about 200,000 potholes filled in a year.

But asphalt providers might be embedding the price of the one-year warranty into the cost of the asphalt.

“We suspect some of the pricing includes a charge for the warranty we know we’re not going to enforce,” auditor general Ken Hughes said.

The roads branch bought $1.4 million worth of gravel and $845,000 worth of asphalt in 2016.

When it comes to the gravel, auditors learned the city has a process to make sure the material meets the city’s standards.

However, auditors expected to see the city make sure the suppliers’ scales were properly calibrated. Gravel contracts compel the suppliers send a calibration certificate on the 15th of each month, but the city wasn’t bothering to follow up on the requirement.

Out of 25 scales reviewed by auditors, two didn’t have current calibration certificates and another six scales had certificates that were issued after the previous certificates expired.

The road services audit included ironworks, partly prompted by a tip to the fraud and waste hotline. A tipster found City of Ottawa-branded stormwater covers in a commercial parking lot, making auditors wonder if any extra covers were lifted from a city yard.

When auditors took an inventory in mid-2017, they found 207 units worth a combined $22,500 missing compared to the records.

Coun. Allan Hubley, chair of the audit committee, was steamed after hearing about the substandard asphalt and measuring scales.

“When you hear that wasn’t happening, that’s bad,” Hubley said. “That’s really bad.”

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...othole-repairs
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1395  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2017, 12:19 AM
Catenary Catenary is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 538
I had the opportunity to ask the planners some of these questions and here are the general answers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multi-modal View Post
*Edit - To start I'll say that I think the Ultimate Configuration is pretty good... the transit stops are well done, with the cycling behind the new shelters, and overall things look well thought-out. The segment of bi-directional cycling on Bronson baffles me: why not one-way bike lane to match north of Albert?
There are fewer conflicts there, and most cycle traffic is from the path to Laurier over to the Albert street path.

Quote:
Or if you are doing bi-directional on the west side of Bronson, then why not make a little bi-directional connection on the north side of Albert to Commissioners?
There is apparently a lack of space there, and they have heard from the disability groups that it is better to have concrete sidewalks and bikeways separate to reduce confusion, rather than the usual 3m shared MUP. They are aware that this is a missing link, but the proximity to the future library makes accessibility important.

Quote:
The interim configuration could use some work. The transit stop design is much worse, and on the Mackenzie King bridge they put planters between the bike lanes and the sidewalk rather than between the bike lane and the vehicle lanes (where they are more needed).
There is a requirement for an emergency vehicle to be able to pass a disabled vehicle, which is not possible with a single lane and a median. With the proposed design, an emergency vehicle could enter and exit the bike lane to pass a disabled vehicle in the travel lane. Removing the median is a possibility in the future, but depends on $.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
So they're expecting cyclists to switch from the right side lane to the centre in the middle of the M-K bridge? Seems kind of weird.

Personally, I'd rather see the bike lanes on the left side lanes of Albert and Slater, and have the switchover done on the Bronson end, possibly with some sort of underpass configuration. I actually like riding on the left side lanes on one-way streets because you ar closer to the driver side of vehicles, making cyclists more visible, and left hand turns are easily signalized.
The city apparently did look into this, and decided to stick to the right side for uniformity throughout the city. The right side along Albert and Slater also has fewer entrances and exits than the left, a product of having decades on transit lanes on that side of the street.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1396  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 6:58 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,581
Here's an article about the new wayfinding system. I'm excited about this. It'll bring some cohesiveness to the experience in downtown Ottawa and Gatineau, tying together different mainstreets and attractions. Unfortunately, seems like they've left the bus station, Chinatown and Little Italy out of the plan. They need to start thinking of those areas of a part of downtown.

Here are the documents from Ottawa tourism.

https://www.ottawatourism.ca/wp-cont...egy-Map-EN.pdf (sign locations)

https://www.ottawatourism.ca/wp-cont...trategy-EN.pdf

Quote:
Why we all win when visitors can find their way around

Ottawa Tourism leads the charge on new wayfinding initiative

BY: Sponsored Content
PUBLISHED: Dec 5, 2017 12:13pm EST

For visitors new to the area, navigating Ottawa-Gatineau can be a bit like stumbling through one of those autumn cornfield mazes.

It’s hardly intuitive, for example, to know that in five minutes you can walk from the National Gallery of Canada to another province for a better shot of Parliament Hill. Or that the Rideau Canal and the Rideau River are in fact two different things north of Hogs Back Park.

What Canada’s capital region needs is a better “wayfinding strategy.”

What’s wayfinding? An information signage system that guides people through a city, campus, or buildings that enhances our ability to navigate and understand our environment.

In this digital age, “signage” can include anything from conventional street signage and information kiosks, to mobile apps that further enrich user experience, allow for more engagement and enable vital data collection.A wayfinding sign in Boston

For the team at Ottawa Tourism, all the options are on the table as it works with its partners to create a single, cohesive wayfinding system that will make the region more user friendly for visitors on foot.

Canada’s capital region has no shortage of directional signage, but once out of the National Capital Commission jurisdiction, visitors have to hope there will be another wayfinding sign, somewhere. And even if there is one, they will have to re-orient themselves to a new signage system.

Between the City of Ottawa, Ville de Gatineau, local business improvement areas, the National Capital Commission, the federal government, Parks Canada and other stakeholders, Ottawa and Gatineau are awash with a hodge-podge of signage that can be confusing for visitors.

Stakeholders on both sides of the river have teamed up to find consensus around one unified approach for wayfinding.

“What we need to do is look at this in terms of how people orient themselves when they are in a new place,” said Catherine Callary, Ottawa Tourism’s Senior Director of Destination Development. “With 13 partners working together on this issue, we have to put ourselves in the shoes of a visitor who doesn’t know the city to develop a feasible and consistent system that will work for everyone.”

Toronto and Vancouver already have such a system in place. In fact, Ottawa and Gatineau are lagging many other Canadian cities, due to their multijurisdictional complexities.

Why does this matter to local business owners?

“Improving wayfinding improves the walkability of the city,” Callary said. “It creates a stronger civic space and a sense of place that encourages people to leave their cars and walk.”

And that, she adds, can rub off on residents, meaning more pedestrian traffic for local businesses. This has proven to be the case, for example, in London, England, with its Legible London wayfinding system. The benefits extend beyond curbside shops, services and restaurants. A city that is perceived as more walkable becomes more appealing as a place to live and work.

“Technology companies looking to attract and retain top talent can see benefits from improved wayfinding,” Callary said. “With initiatives like this one that are about place-making and civic spaces, the city as a whole becomes more appealing to young professionals to put down roots and build their careers here.”

So, what's next?

Pedestrians polled through online and intercept surveys agreed that a unified wayfinding system would improve their experience and help guide them to particular destinations. The concept is also finding support among community stakeholders like attractions, retail, neighbourhoods, the new LRT and transit system, and other hotel and business partners.

Developing and implementing a new wayfinding system for our region is being tackled in three phases. The first phase, a feasibility study and wayfinding strategy undertaken with the guidance of a wayfinding committee and public consultation, has been completed.

This is being taken back to Ottawa Tourism’s partner organizations to garner more support and to lay the ground work for partnerships before proceeding to Phase 2 – the design and implementation of a pilot project that is expected to roll out early next year. Phase 3, full implementation, is expected to unfold over several years.

For more information on Ottawa Tourism’s Wayfinding Strategy, please visit ottawatourism.ca/wayfinding-strategy.
http://obj.ca/article/why-we-all-win...eir-way-around
__________________
Ranting since 2014 at shiftermagazine.com/kevin-bourne

Last edited by kevinbottawa; Dec 6, 2017 at 7:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1397  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2017, 8:04 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 500
About damn time
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1398  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2017, 10:22 PM
Mulder Mulder is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
Yeah, the way it is worded makes no sense. The road isn't required to protect the greenbelt, it is "required" because of suburban growth. But the reason is being implemented as widenings of existing roads (as opposed to an entirely new road as it was originally envisioned) is to minimize the impact to the greenbelt.
It's worded funky, but correct. It is a project requirement to 'minimize' the impact on the greenbelt. (a bunch of retaining walls to limit the widening footprint)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1399  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2017, 6:23 AM
Kitchissippi's Avatar
Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 3,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
The city apparently did look into this, and decided to stick to the right side for uniformity throughout the city. The right side along Albert and Slater also has fewer entrances and exits than the left, a product of having decades on transit lanes on that side of the street.
Uniformity? LOL, the two examples of segregated bike lanes on one-way streets in the downtown core — O'Connor and Mackenzie — both have them on the left side. Love how planners pull BS out of a hat when it suits them. Meanwhile, a double signalized crossride, which is virtually what's going to happen in the middle of the M-K Bridge is unconventional and inconvenient.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1400  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2017, 3:34 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
I had the opportunity to ask the planners some of these questions and here are the general answers:

There are fewer conflicts there, and most cycle traffic is from the path to Laurier over to the Albert street path.

There is apparently a lack of space there, and they have heard from the disability groups that it is better to have concrete sidewalks and bikeways separate to reduce confusion, rather than the usual 3m shared MUP. They are aware that this is a missing link, but the proximity to the future library makes accessibility important.
The most direct way from Laurier to Albert will now be to follow Slater to the Albert / Slater intersection. The only reason for a 2-way path on the west side of Bronson would be to connect to Commissioner Street, and since they didn't complete that connection its not doing much good. I still think Bronson should just be 1-way bike lanes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
There is a requirement for an emergency vehicle to be able to pass a disabled vehicle, which is not possible with a single lane and a median. With the proposed design, an emergency vehicle could enter and exit the bike lane to pass a disabled vehicle in the travel lane. Removing the median is a possibility in the future, but depends on $.
That actually makes sense, I forgot about emergency vehicles. Removing the median would certainly help and allow them to improve the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
The city apparently did look into this, and decided to stick to the right side for uniformity throughout the city. The right side along Albert and Slater also has fewer entrances and exits than the left, a product of having decades on transit lanes on that side of the street.
I still think sticking with the left side would be better to reduce conflicts with the STO buses. More importantly though, they need to pick a side and stick to it... this nonsense about the mid-block crossing @ the Rideau Centre will be awkward and just makes the cycling network more complicated.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:27 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.