Urban residents aren’t abandoning buses; buses are abandoning them

[ssiguy]

The problem with all these streetcar/LRT lines in many US cities is that they make no economic sense. many are built not out of need but for no other reason than "everyone else has one".

They can be very useful if they offer true rapid transit but for those that are just regular streetcars they can do more harm than good.

They become pet projects for politicians who wouldn't be caught dead riding it after the ribbon cutting ceremonies. The money spent on these short lines is money that is not being spent on the rest of the system. These short lines could build huge BRT systems but BRT isn't sexy enough for politicians. The politicians get their day in the sun but the regular riders often suffer as these little lines bleed precious money from bus infrastructure and operational funds.

As far as the "no one will take the bus" idea, that of course is crap. Many BRT lines in the US get very good ridership at a fraction of the price of LRT. Also BRT has been proven to create TOD and result in urban renewal as Cleveland's Healthline proves. It has lead to the renaissance of the city's main road Euclid Ave. It has also led to urban renewal and population growth along the corridor which is a real achievement in a city with a stagnant population and hundreds of empty homes.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

As far as the "no one will take the bus" idea, that of course is crap.

I think there are only two U.S. metros with more rail passengers than bus passengers- NYC and DC. For every other metro, buses rule.

And even in NYC and DC, buses are extremely important. Even if there were no rail in the NYC metro, the bus ridership is so high that it would still be the most transit-oriented U.S. metro on bus ridership alone.

Yet its like buses are completely ignored in the national transit discourse. Better to spend a billion bucks on a trolley in Detroit that basically functions as a shuttle for weekend bar-hoppers as opposed to investing in daily transit needs.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The problem with all these streetcar/LRT lines in many US cities is that they make no economic sense. many are built not out of need but for no other reason than "everyone else has one".

They can be very useful if they offer true rapid transit but for those that are just regular streetcars they can do more harm than good.

They become pet projects for politicians who wouldn't be caught dead riding it after the ribbon cutting ceremonies. The money spent on these short lines is money that is not being spent on the rest of the system. These short lines could build huge BRT systems but BRT isn't sexy enough for politicians. The politicians get their day in the sun but the regular riders often suffer as these little lines bleed precious money from bus infrastructure and operational funds.

As far as the "no one will take the bus" idea, that of course is crap. Many BRT lines in the US get very good ridership at a fraction of the price of LRT. Also BRT has been proven to create TOD and result in urban renewal as Cleveland's Healthline proves. It has lead to the renaissance of the city's main road Euclid Ave. It has also led to urban renewal and population growth along the corridor which is a real achievement in a city with a stagnant population and hundreds of empty homes.

I have often wondered about the value of those downtown circulator streetcars, which have become the trophy of transit improvement in so many cities. What do they really accomplish when you consider the overall transit network? I guess they are supposed to revitalize a downtown area, but they don't bring in people from the hinterland of the city.

[Jasonhouse]

They help spur reinvestment in urban areas often otherwise looked over by investors. They're almost more of a marketing tool, but it works if you do it right.

Tampa spends a few hundred thousand a year to run a streetcar lucky to get 400,000 riders a year. Everyone who doesn't look at the big picture calls it a failure. But it also helped to spur new development directly adjacent to the line which brings in over $2 million a year in property taxes, with more coming every year. (a wider area considered to be in walking distance of the line brings in over $15 million a year more than it used to, but the impact of the streetcar in the decision to build such projects is more questionable.)