Sacramento: 301 Capitol Mall: A New Plan for The Towers Site

[SoCal Alan]

I would not be surprised if this project comes back, especially as the downtown arena project moves forward and begins construction. If I was living in the Sacramento area, I would love to purchase a condo in this location, just for the energy that the new arena would provide this location. I hope if this project does come back, that the project isn't downsized.

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

Honestly, for any condo project to be successful downtown, or even just for more residents to return, there will have to be more than a brand new entertainment district to attract them. We need a Whole Foods or something downtown, where I don't know. Otherwise, you'll get all these downtown residents driving to the Safeway on 19th for one of the most important needs: groceries.

[innov8]

Originally Posted by Schmoe

I've been working an old contact who insists we'll see cranes at 301 before the arena site. Sadly, have been unable to get more out of her than that.

Both my contacts at CalPERS and CIM are saying the same thing... that they
are anticipating interest and open to talking to folks about ideas… but there
is no progress to report at this time.

See cranes? It won't be for office space because there is still around
12 million sf of unrented office space available in the Sacramento market.
If it were residential it would be low income with subsidies from somewhere.
The middle to high market still is not in demand in downtown/midtown, just
look at the L Street lofts which is now a rental and has still not been able
to fill half of the 92 units in the building… and it's in a great location.

[wburg]

How about the residential condos on top of the hotel at 15th and L? Those seem to have sold pretty briskly--partially, I'm sure, because of the nice views of Capitol Park. The L Street lofts are kind of a special case, due to financial problems and the recent economic unpleasantness, so I don't know if they are the best guide--they're also not technically "downtown." I see lots of Midtown infill going on these days, and darn near zero places for sale under half a million. What is the price point needed to make new residential construction or conversion feasible?

[ozone]

Without any real proposal I'm not going get my hopes up. Whatever they build there will have to go through the design review and approval processes and that will take time. People around here like to talk things up. Like that I-suck-at-my job M. Ault (Sac Downtown Partnership) telling anyone who would listen that he's received a flood of inquiries about downtown properties since the arena deal. I'm sure there are inquiries but until we start seeing real proposals I'm not going to get very excited.

[Schmoe]

Originally Posted by innov8

Both my contacts at CalPERS and CIM are saying the same thing... that they
are anticipating interest and open to talking to folks about ideas… but there
is no progress to report at this time.

See cranes? It won't be for office space because there is still around
12 million sf of unrented office space available in the Sacramento market.
If it were residential it would be low income with subsidies from somewhere.
The middle to high market still is not in demand in downtown/midtown, just
look at the L Street lofts which is now a rental and has still not been able
to fill half of the 92 units in the building… and it's in a great location.

I actually suspect hotel.

[CAGeoNerd]

It's the pricing. All of these lofts and units that have been built are too expensive for the market. Developers build these high-end units at high prices and expect them to fill up. There simply aren't that many people wealthy enough to buy or rent them.

It's either high-end or low income, and that's where things have gone wrong downtown. There needs to be middle income residential housing. There needs to be affordable units large enough for families downtown.

[wburg]

Residential infill housing in Midtown runs $350,000-$800,000 and it gets snapped up pretty quickly; much of the leftover condo stock from the last boom that wasn't converted to rentals has been purchased, resulting in the recent mini-boom of infill development.

Families present a problem--family units are physically large, requiring extra bedrooms and bathrooms, which is expensive. But there is already a huge stock of surplus, recently-constructed homes for sale in the boom-era suburbs, with more coming online. There is no way to build mid-rise or high-rise condos of similar size for a remotely comparable price. Plus there are the usual assortment of concerns about downtown condos for families--no yard, not enough bedrooms, safe environment for children etcetera. Midtown infill properties at least have nearby access to parks, trees and quiet residential streets (at least the streets that aren't rush-hour traffic corridors.) That's where I have started to see a lot more kids and young families recently, both new migrants and long-time residents who had kids but have no interest in moving to the suburbs.

But American demographics are changing. People wait longer to get married, or don't get married at all, and have fewer kids. There is a market for single person and childless couples, and many members of that market are looking for workforce-priced housing downtown. They don't need a ton of space or many bedrooms, but they can't afford high-end luxury prices. They can afford a higher price than they would pay in the suburbs, because they save a lot of money by not having to commute. Theoretically they could save even more money by not owning a car, creating an opportunity for for-sale condos in buildings that don't come with parking spaces (which would shave something like $25-50K off the sale price.) But banks get all nervous when you talk about this kind of project...they're more comfortable with the tried and true suburban model, and they want parking spaces if they're going to fund it!

[SoCal Alan]

Back before the project was postponed/cancelled (2007?), wasn't there a list of customers with deposits being placed, and if so, what kind of numbers were we looking at? Were prices already announced for units? If interest was high before the market downturn, that would give us an indication of the potential in this new, unknown market (the high end luxury high rise).

[ozone]

There will still be interest. When something is finally proposed I suspect it will be considerably downsized from the lofty towers. Probably a hotel/residential. It would great to see something like San Francisco's Infinity towers go in there.

[enigma99a]

The new renders are in



Actually I would rather wait 10 years to get the full height than to build now.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by enigma99a

The new renders are in



Actually I would rather wait 10 years to get the full height than to build now.

Funny. But naw. Of course, I'd like to see full height but I would rather see something nice built sooner if that means it's less tall. There's plenty of other places for higher buildings when the market can support that.

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

When I think about the press about going residential downtown, as nice as it would be to see shiny new towers and buildings, I keep coming back to the same question: where am I going for groceries? Honestly, I don't understand the residential push in downtown right now. The Mall's a deadzone after 5 PM. I hope that maybe with more residents looking downtown, the infrastructure to support them living there will follow, but it just feels to me that that infrastructure needs to happen first. What'd be really nice would be to see a Whole Foods somewhere downtown.

[Deno]

Just build one residential and hotel tower.

[wburg]

We already have a hotel/residential tower downtown, so at least there's a comp to put a bank slightly more at ease.

ThatDarnSacramentan: Generally, grocery stores follow rooftops, and there aren't enough rooftops downtown to support one, which is probably the main sticking point. Within two miles (a long walk or a short bike ride) of downtown there are two Safeways (both of which deliver), a Grocery Outlet (which has some surprisingly nice stuff) and the Sacramento Natural Foods Co-Op, along with a number of farmer's markets and a few central city specialty/deli stores here and there. The CBD itself is limited to a few convenience stores, including the Rite-Aid and a 24 hour 7-11, but it's not exactly impossible for someone downtown to go shopping for food--and their trip for groceries is probably shorter (in terms of actual distance traveled) than most people who live in the suburbs.

So, it's not super convenient but far from impossible to shop for groceries if you live downtown--the real limitation right now is actual housing choices. There just plain aren't very many places to live, regardless of income level, which is why the Sacramento central business district has a lower population density than Land Park (that, and because of the decades-long assumption of the business community and city government that nobody should ever live downtown.)

So, how do we fix it? It probably starts with a few mid-sized residential projects--either new construction or conversion of existing buildings--that bring a few more people of moderate to high income into the central city. Odds are, any such building will have to be mixed-use, and what sort of commercial use does the central city need? A grocery store, at least a small one--once there is more of a captive downtown market to patronize that store.

Infrastructure we've got. What we need downtown is HOUSING and lots of it. The infill around the central city will also help--as vacant buildings get fixed up and occupied, vacant lots get things built on them, there will be more residents who will spend a majority of their money in the neighborhood, and a downtown market would also be useful to residents of Alkali/Mansion Flat, Southside, and even West Sacramento. Such a market wouldn't have to be free-standing--it could be in the ground floor of, say, a condo tower.

[CAGeoNerd]

Put a Whole Foods at ground level somewhere in the K Street/downtown plaza vicinity and watch residential flock there.

wburg thinks you have to build residential there first, then groceries and other stores will follow. Other way around. You need to have the amenities there first, and the people will follow.

[ozone]

Originally Posted by CAGeoNerd

Put a Whole Foods at ground level somewhere in the K Street/downtown plaza vicinity and watch residential flock there.

wburg thinks you have to build residential there first, then groceries and other stores will follow. Other way around. You need to have the amenities there first, and the people will follow.

CAGeoNerd if that is what wburg is saying then I think he's right. You have to look at it from the point of the one making the decisions. People will move into an area that doesn't have a grocery store within walking distance-- because most people do not walk to the grocery store anyway. Certainty most of the people who would live in market-rate condos/apartments would like a Whole Foods nearby but that wouldn't be a deciding factor in whether or not they moved downtown. Obviously for an urban grocery store to succeed it has to be enough people to support it. I imagine a Whole Foods could do great downtown even with commuters who could do their grocery shopping right after work, before they got on the freeway to go home. But I think most grocery store chains use a formula to determine viability based on the number of residents nearby.

[ozone]

double post

[wburg]

The first thing you have to have is the HOUSING. People can't move to a place where there aren't homes for sale, whether or not there is a food store nearby.

Of course, if a developer wanted to supercharge their housing project downtown, they could always include a market in the ground floor of a residential tower, to provide a place for residents to get groceries. The most effective strategy might be DO BOTH AT ONCE, rather than prioritizing one or the other.

[v.o.r.t.e.x]

I don't think downtown needs residential buildings. People should live around downtown, central city is for arenas, shops, restaurants etc. Building new units in township 9/west sac/midtown would make downtown center and only then businesses would start filling empty/dead downtown. The actual problem here that there is not enough people to fill central city and not turn it ghetto.