VIA rail seemed weird when I used it

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

The UP Express is great. Really simple and efficient.

Agreed. UP Express is a great connection between DT Toronto and Pearson. Nicest trains i've been on in Canada.

Originally Posted by ghyhz

Check out my post here (with photos) about a recent trip I had on VIA’s overnight ‘Ocean’ train between Montreal and Halifax (note this is posted to an Amtrak Forum…..I was just bragging about how good my VIA trip was!!)

That route is tough if you don't have a sleeper car. I did it once over Christmas and it took something like ~24 hours from Ottawa to Moncton. The whole stretch through Northern NB and Bas-Saint-Laurent is annoyingly slow.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

That route is tough if you don't have a sleeper car. I did it once over Christmas and it took something like ~24 hours from Ottawa to Moncton. The whole stretch through Northern NB and Bas-Saint-Laurent is annoyingly slow.

Due to the poor quality of the roadbed. The line is speed restricted to prevent derailments.

It would be a heck of a lot quicker if they could take the CN mainline directly across the province (via Juniper to Grand Falls). It's shorter and they could maintain speed.



Of course, if they did that, places like Miramichi, Bathurst and Campbellton would lose service.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Of course, if they did that, places like Miramichi, Bathurst and Campbellton would lose service.

I imagine Fredericton would be a more valuable an asset for VIA than those three combined. Suddenly VIA would be an option for UNB/STU students in Fredericton.

Being able to train between Fredericton/Moncton in 2hr30/2hr45 would be a decent weekend option for some.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I imagine Fredericton would be a more valuable an asset for VIA than those three combined. Suddenly VIA would be an option for UNB/STU students in Fredericton.

Being able to train between Fredericton/Moncton in 2hr30/2hr45 would be a decent weekend option for some.

Of course, the CN mainline doesn't pass through Freddy. It goes through McGivney (about 40-50 km to the north)

[Acajack]

As I mentioned in another thread a few weeks ago I would assume the reason the Montreal train runs via the Matapédia and then to Bathurst and down to Moncton is because there are more potential passengers there. Not necessarily because the population is that much more but because Acadians are more likely to have something to do in Montreal than NB anglos who populate the more western routing once you pass Grand Falls all the way to Moncton. This is almost a certainty if a move to the CN main line bypassed Fredericton.

In theory there could also be Maritimers of all stripes connecting to Toronto and Ottawa in Montreal, but I'd say the complications of that trip probably discourage most travellers for doing it. If you're going from Halifax to Toronto you either drive or fly.

[esquire]

^ Does Fredericton not have any rail service at all?

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As I mentioned in another thread a few weeks ago I would assume the reason the Montreal train runs via the Matapédia and then to Bathurst and down to Moncton is because there are more potential passengers there. Not necessarily because the population is that much more but because Acadians are more likely to have something to do in Montreal than NB anglos who populate the more western routing once you pass Grand Falls all the way to Moncton. This is almost a certainty if a move to the CN main line bypassed Fredericton.

In theory there could also be Maritimers of all stripes connecting to Toronto and Ottawa in Montreal, but I'd say the complications of that trip probably discourage most travellers for doing it. If you're going from Halifax to Toronto you either drive or fly.

It was more of the Gaspé train connecting near Cambelton, saving costs. Though trains could have split in RdL. The former CN line up North could get discontinued next year, affecting VIA. The agreement between the province was to have higher traffic, it's actually lower now.

Latest article I could find.
CN line through N.B. in danger if business doesn't pick up
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...t-cn-1.3992590

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Does Fredericton not have any rail service at all?

In terms of passenger rail Fredericton and Saint John have no rail service whatsoever. There have been rumours of increased VIA Rail service in the Maritimes which would potentially include a SJ-Moncton route but so far there's been no progress on the file. I'm fairly certain the focus is on increased frequency between Moncton-Halifax as well as the potential Halifax commuter rail project.

IIRC Fredericton doesn't have much by the way of rail lines at all. I know one of the old rail stations there was converted into a (quite nice) provincial liquor store.

It's obviously well off the map for any potential passenger route but the station in McAdam is pretty awesome:


TourismNB

[esquire]

^ But are there any freight lines in Fredericton?

That station on McAdam is spectacular.

[333609543]

I know there's a former rail line that went through just south of Frederiction's downtown. IIRC the ROW isn't completely gone. (Its fairly noticeable from google maps using sattelite view)

I might add a screenshot from my phone if I can find a way to get imgur to work.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It's obviously well off the map for any potential passenger route but the station in McAdam is pretty awesome...…

Thanks for posting.

Yes....McAdam was once a busy station. VIA service lasted there until Dec. 1994 when the Atlantic Limited was Discontinued. It ran across Maine between Montreal-Saint John-Halifax.

There was also the Gull from Saint John to Boston.....and trains between Saint John-Woodstock-Edmundston.

[WoodlandCritter]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Seems like the US uses the plane-style boarding method, excepting things like the Long Island commuter lines:

https://www.vox.com/2014/3/31/556360...n-amtrak-train

I am glad that someone else has noticed this.

Taking Amtrak Cascades from Vancouver to Seattle is the same way. I find it weird and less exciting as the European platform waiting method. But seems to be what it is.

[kool maudit]

I just think it takes a long time to board when it's single-file like that.

[someone123]

The service improvements in the Maritimes are more than just rumours. The CEO of VIA said they intended to start running extra Halifax-Moncton trains in late 2017. Adjusted for VIA time, I guess this means sometime before 2025 or so?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...iano-1.3960280

There was speculation that the route might continue to Saint John but I haven't seen any statements about that from someone at VIA.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

The service improvements in the Maritimes are more than just rumours. The CEO of VIA said they intended to start running extra Halifax-Moncton trains in late 2017. Adjusted for VIA time, I guess this means sometime before 2025 or so?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...iano-1.3960280

Indeed, I couldn't recall exactly if VIA had addressed the plans publicly or not.

IIRC the Ocean line itself had an increase in revenues but a decrease in total passengers in 2016. Unfortunately in their annual report they don't break it down by section/station boardings of the route and just refer to the entire route for financial and passenger data. They must have some insight into boardings between Moncton & Halifax and presumably it's positive if they're aiming for/have already implemented increased service.

Regarding Acajack's post earlier regarding Francophone passengers finding more use for a train to Montreal: I can only assume that decreasing populations in Bas-Saint-Laurent/Gaspé/Northern NB are leading to decreased boardings along the route in between Montreal & Moncton. I'm also assuming that boardings Moncton & Halifax are up as their populations increase.

[someone123]

I posted the history of the Atlantic and Ocean lines a while ago. These things are never entirely clear but it looks like the Atlantic turned into the Progressive Conservative line and the Ocean turned into the Liberal line.

I doubt the current routing is based around practical considerations of demand for trips between small towns in Northern NB and Montreal. Most areas like Northern NB in Canada have no rail service at all, and the Ocean route and schedule are impractical.

A shorter route along the main corridor in the Maritimes would cost a lot less and could generate much higher ridership.

Are the VIA trains more reliable in the winter than driving? That could be a big advantage.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

In Toronto and Montreal, though, they did this thing where it was like a plane. You waited at a gate in the station and then they boarded you through a single door, checking your ticket at said door.

Spain (from Madrid to Valencia in 2010) was the most interesting experience. It's my understanding they've reduced the process a bit.

Ticket Check + metal detector + luggage scan (xray); this applied to all trains.

For HSR, you then moved onto a holding room for your train and only your train. This included a ticket check for entry.

At boarding time, police closed the doors to the holding room. If you didn't make it to the holding room 20 minutes prior to departure, you weren't getting on the train. Boarding consisted of 2 staff monitoring an electronic ticket scanner with a faregate (moving arms), an escalator down to platform level where staff with a 2 police escort visually confirmed your ticket (circled date & train number) and directed you to the appropriate car.

And finally staff passed through cars shortly after departure to scan tickets a final time; presumably to ensure nobody stayed on platform level. Arriving and departing passengers were fully segregated.

Not quite as bad as security for YYZ to DCA flights in 2005 but it was pretty close. This trip was kinda famous for having mandatory pat-downs in the bridge by US Officers.


Barcelona to Paris was much lighter on security. After a brief visit at the turtle pond (not mandatory but encouraged) you have a pretty rapid X-ray of luggage, metal detector, and ticket check. A ticket check prior to entering the platform around 15 minutes prior to departure, and a final ticket check onboard the train.


Germany is nearly the exact opposite; they barely check tickets at all. Onboard they regularly miss customers at smaller stations as there are rarely assigned seats and shuffling around is common. France, Netherlands, Belgium, etc. are a basic onboard check typically with assigned seats.


Russian HSR is closer to that of Spain than Germany.

UK to France is pretty intense but includes customs (on the UK side) which complicates things.


In short, Europe doesn't have a single set of rules. Each country pretty much does their own thing with the ones that have had recent problems having relatively tight security.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by someone123

I posted the history of the Atlantic and Ocean lines a while ago. These things are never entirely clear but it looks like the Atlantic turned into the Progressive Conservative line and the Ocean turned into the Liberal line.

I doubt the current routing is based around practical considerations of demand for trips between small towns in Northern NB and Montreal. Most areas like Northern NB in Canada have no rail service at all, and the Ocean route and schedule are impractical.

A shorter route along the main corridor in the Maritimes would cost a lot less and could generate much higher ridership.

Are the VIA trains more reliable in the winter than driving? That could be a big advantage.

This was Plan B for VIA if CN discontinues the Newcastle Sub (which I wish for). Edmundston to Moncton would save about 4h and get nearby service to cities that need the most

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

Are the VIA trains more reliable in the winter than driving? That could be a big advantage.

It's tough to say. Driving on the A-20 in Quebec is pretty straightforward, and Route 2 through NB is similarly easy. The only area that reliably gets a bit sketchy in the winter is A-185/A-85. Once you get southeast of Edmundston or West of Riviere-du-Loup it would have to be a pretty bad storm to slow down your drive, and I can't imagine a VIA train going through Matapedia would do much better in said storm.

The Ocean is fine as long as you have a sleeper car, and renting one of those jacks the cost up considerably more than a rental car. I've done the Ocean sans sleeper car and it's...not the most fun.

Flying beats both train and car through the winter months, obviously, depending on where you're going. Taking the bus is....so much worse on so many levels.

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

This was Plan B for VIA if CN discontinues the Newcastle Sub (which I wish for). Edmundston to Moncton would save about 4h and get nearby service to cities that need the most

What's the rail situation between Edmundston & Moncton? Is it still all CN and/or useable for VIA? A 17 hour Montreal-Moncton VIA trip that gets cut down to 13 or 14 hours is a bit more tempting.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by JHikka

What's the rail situation between Edmundston & Moncton? Is it still all CN and/or useable for VIA? A 17 hour Montreal-Moncton VIA trip that gets cut down to 13 or 14 hours is a bit more tempting.

Class 5 ready, up to 160 km/h.