EVANSTON | 708 Church St. (Fountain Square Tower) | 409 FT| 35 FLOORS

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by aaron38

Regarding the second proposal, if you look at the elevation drawing in the evanstonnow.com article, the support columns for the tower go right through the Hahn building.
Which would mean the Hahn building would be completely 'facademized', right?

i don't think so. the new tower is kind of propped up on stilts over the existing hahn building. i do know that the hahn building was built with beefy enough coulumns and footings to support additional stories, however i didn't think they could withstand 33 additional stories, but i'm no structural engineer so what the heck do i know. either the existing hahn building structure can support the new load, or they have some fancy system for shoring up and strenghtening the exisitng strucutre to handle it, but either way, this doesn't look like a facedectomy to me.

[honte]

^ Unless for some odd reason that thing is built on caissons or piles, I don't think there is any way to reuse those old foundations. That is, unless very light loads were coming down on them and most of the loads transferred back over to the main structural members in the new tower.

There is a pretty unusual technique where one gets equipment into the ground level / basement, and creates micropiles around an existing footing. Then a beefed-up pile cap is built to engage the old column to the new, strengthened foundation.

Unless Evanston is preparing to really stick it to these guys, I can't see them doing any of the above before they just facadectomize the whole thing and call it a day.

I'd much rather see a true cantilever system that would just suspend the new tower over the Hahn building. That's probably asking for too much though.

[Steely Dan]

honte, this should ease your concerns about the hahn building. an excerpt from the evanstonnow.com article:

"Mr. Coffey said he was confident that the caissons to support the tower can be inserted into the Hahn Building while still preserving its structure and said his firm has worked on several similar projects in Chicago."

[honte]

^ Oh, ok, thanks - I haven't taken time to read the article yet. Well, since Coffey is involved, I'd trust that a lot more than if I heard it from others.

But the phrase "preserving its structure" is pretty loaded, wouldn't you think? It's clear they are going to be adding new support structure (caissons, he claims), so reuse of the existing foundation seems to be out. The question then becomes, does he mean just "exterior structure" i.e. facadectomy? I can't see another way to get a caisson rig in there.

Perhaps the new columns only intrude into one side of the Hahn building (it appears so), which means they might just do a partial demo of the southernmost side to allow equipment to enter.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by honte

But the phrase "preserving its structure" is pretty loaded, wouldn't you think? It's clear they are going to be adding new support structure (caissons, he claims), so reuse of the existing foundation seems to be out. The question then becomes, does he mean just "exterior structure" i.e. facadectomy? I can't see another way to get a caisson rig in there.

i don't know about that. the phrase "inserted into the hahn building" makes me think they have something else up their sleeve. we'll just have to be patient until we know more.

time, as always, will tell.

[Steely Dan]

if you click the link to the evanstonnow.com article, there's a diagram showing elevation heights at the base of this building. the 1st residential level (level 5) starts at 62'-0" in the air, and after that all subsequent residential levels have an even 10'-0" floor-to-floor height. so the first 4 levels are 62' high and the remaining 33 residential floors are 330' high, giving us a rough figure of 392' for the total height of the building, not including any parapets and what-nots that might be on the roof.

even if only this proposal goes forward, that's still over 100' taller than evanston's current tallest.

[Steely Dan]

here is my best photoshop attempt of super-imposing the new tower rendering onto the first one. it's clear that my photoshop skills are weak, but at least i tried...........

too much of a good thing on one small triangular block?

[Pandemonious]

Wow, this block just flat out fuckin' rules now. These two buildings will give Evanston a much taller and denser skyline, a fairly impressive one, at that.

[Busy Bee]

too much of a good thing on one small triangular block?

No. Build. Now. Must Build Now.

This is getting into the Asian boom cities' "we're building something that's gonna kick your ass" ethos. This would bring Evanston development to a new level. Hell, imagine how great that would look at some Chicago intersections.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

This is getting into the Asian boom cities' "we're building something that's gonna kick your ass" ethos.

that might work for asia, but i have a hunch that little old evanston's ethos is directly opposed to the notion of ass kicking. i love tall buildings as much as the rest of you, especially for the increased urbanism they bring when designed correctly, but the fountain square block is quite small. these two proposals together might be too much building for such a small block.

though, my crappy photoshop obviously shouldn't be the sole determinant of such a judgement. there was talk the two development teams were talking about collaboration, so hopefully we'll get to see what they come up with.

[honte]

^ How about something more unified? A Momo-style bridge that spans over the Hahn would be interesting.

[Marcu]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

that might work for asia, but i have a hunch that little old evanston's ethos is directly opposed to the notion of ass kicking. i love tall buildings as much as the rest of you, especially for the increased urbanism they bring when designed correctly, but the fountain square block is quite small. these two proposals together might be too much building for such a small block.

though, my crappy photoshop obviously shouldn't be the sole determinant of such a judgement. there was talk the two development teams were talking about collaboration, so hopefully we'll get to see what they come up with.

No way in hell is Evanston city council letting both stay as is. Chances are we'll see both built but at around 20-25 stories each. After all it's Evanston. The city that must give everyone some say in all matters.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Marcu

No way in hell is Evanston city council letting both stay as is. Chances are we'll see both built but at around 20-25 stories each. After all it's Evanston. The city that must give everyone some say in all matters.

i really don't know what the city council will end up approving for this block, but to say with 100% certainty that both proposals will be chopped down to the 20-25 story range seems foolish to me. many people within the evanston planning department and the city council have gone on record saying that if evanston is to have a new tallest building, this is the block to put it on, so it's certianly not out of the question that something taller than 20-25 floors will eventually get built on this block.

[alex1]

i for one hope that both buildings go through and get built at their current height. The more highrise housing you put in an already highrise section of any city (especially with good transit connections), the happier I am.

[Chicago3rd]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

who is "they"? the two proposals come from competing development interests with different ownership options for different parcels of land on the block in question.

No back room dealing in Cook County, Evanston or Corporate offices...no sireee......

[Steely Dan]

^ well, if you believe in conspiracy theories, "they" are always out to get you, but i just can't be that paranoid.

an interesting thing to consider: if my rough estimate of 392' for the second tower pans out, then it could rival the 395' gallagher center out in itasca, leaving only the 418' oakbrook terrrace tower as taller, meaning that even if only this 2nd fountain square tower goes forward, evanston will still be jockeying for position up near the very top of the list for tallest building in illinois outside chicago.

[Chicago3rd]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ well, if you believe in conspiracy theories, "they" are always out to get you, but i just can't be that paranoid.

Right Steely....I see black helicopters flying all around Evanston right this very minute.

[Dan in Chicago]

Dan - the shorter proposal has been given an Emporis ID of 300671. For lack of an official name, we're calling it "1600 Orrington Avenue" for now.

[BVictor1]

http://www.suntimes.com/business/roe...eder30.article

Sky's the limit in Evanston
REAL ESTATE | 37-story condo high-rise could go up next to suburbia's tallest building

May 30, 2007

BY DAVID ROEDER Sun-Times Columnist

Downtown Evanston has become the happening place, its restaurants, movie theaters and stores giving it life both day and night. If the condo market cooperates, all that daily commerce in the suburb will shortly translate into changes in its skyline.

Word previously has gotten out about discussions over a 49-story building in downtown Evanston that would be the tallest in suburban Chicago. But right next to that site is another potential project, a building that's not as tall but exudes lofty ambitions.

A team that includes HSA Commercial Real Estate, architect Daniel Coffey and residential investor Robert Horner is proposing a condo high-rise atop a commercial base. It would be on a wedge-shaped parcel where Sherman and Orrington avenues meet Davis Street.

The property at the corner is a city-owned piece called Fountain Square, intended as a public gathering place but little used. The developers would connect it to about 24,000 square feet of retail, with a grand outdoor staircase leading to what they hope will be a high-class restaurant. Behind that would be a 37-story tower containing about 275 units.

Details are inexact because nothing has passed through the city's planning review. But early talks with city officials have begun. Coffey said he and his partners have a compelling proposition for Evanston, which is known for its lengthy reviews of building projects. "We're proposing something that we think is very real, and will give back a lot to the city," Coffey said.

Aside from the Fountain Square renovation, the project also envisions reusing the three-story Hahn Building, a local landmark for its terra cotta details. The tower would partially arise from the Hahn Building, but be set back.

Coffey said the smaller structure would retain its own identity, and not look like a "pasted on" facade for the moneymaker behind it.

His high-rise would feature a triangular shape similar to the landmark Flatiron Building, which no doubt will please all those North Shore subscribers to the New Yorker. The wedged end of the building would have a southern exposure, so Coffey built in oversized balconies and penthouses with terraces big enough to almost be a backyard.

At the same time, he said he's tried to ensure the building presents a "slippery" face that won't kick up any wind tunnels for the shoppers and diners down below.

It would concede a height advantage to its potential neighbor on the north end, but the project could become a significant landmark in its own right. Coffey said the developers are asking for no tax subsidy to support the work at Fountain Square that would include improvements to a memorial for war veterans.

Also in the deal would be a couple levels of underground parking. A six-story building on part of the site, formerly a department store, would be torn down. The condo prices haven't been set.

Coffey built a reputation on historic renovations. His work at the University of Illinois at Chicago amounted to a much-needed "correction" of prior architecture. He has moved on to original designs of increasing scale, with a recent example being the new Schaumburg Convention Center.

He said he and his partners have a contract to acquire the Evanston property, and depending on condo sales and the Evanston approval process, they could get started before their neighbors do. The aspiring developers of the tallest building in the suburbs are Klutznick Fisher Development Co. and Focus Development Inc.

[BVictor1]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...l=chi-news-hed

2nd builder eyes Evanston sky
High-rise proposed for same block as other team's plan

By Blair Kamin and Deborah Horan
Tribune staff reporters
Published May 30, 2007


It's dueling skyscraper plans in Evanston.

A month after one team of developers floated a proposal to build a 523-foot condominium tower, another team on Tuesday night briefed city officials on its design for a 421-foot condo high-rise on the same triangle-shaped block.

Each skyscraper would supplant the 418-foot Oakbrook Terrace Tower as the tallest in Chicago's suburbs, but it is unlikely that both will be built.

They would block each other's views, for one thing, and the prospect of side-by-side behemoths could stir up a political firestorm in Evanston, which in the past has forced developers to downsize skyscraper proposals.

In addition, the city recently hired a team of urban planners to prepare a report, expected to be finished in the fall, that charts the future of the fast-growing downtown.

"I've proposed a moratorium on anything happening downtown until the study is done," Ald. Delores Holmes said in an interview before the new tower plan was discussed at a meeting of the City Council's Planning and Development Committee. "It's just common sense to wait."

Advanced by R.D. Horner & Associates, a veteran Evanston and Chicago housing developer, and HSA Commercial Real Estate, a longtime Chicago retail and industrial developer, the new plan calls for a 37-story high-rise, sheathed in glass with a wedding-cake top.

Designed by Chicago architect Dan Coffey, the building would rise in the middle of the block bounded by Church Street, Orrington Avenue and Sherman Avenue. It would have 250 to 275 units along with shops and parking.

The previous plan, from Klutznick Fisher Development Co. and Focus Development Inc., called for putting a 218-unit tower on the block's north side, where a two-story retail building stands.

George Halik, a partner at Booth Hansen architects of Chicago, which designed the Klutznick-Focus plan, criticized the new proposal Tuesday, saying it would cram the skyscraper directly alongside Evanston's two tallest buildings -- to the east, the 277-foot Chase Building office tower, and, to the west, the 276-foot Sherman Plaza condo tower.

"This crowds the area. It pushes all three tall buildings together whereas ours stands free," Halik said.

But Coffey said the Horner-HSA tower wouldn't block views from neighboring skyscrapers.

The developers, he added, would shoulder the cost of rebuilding the decrepit Fountain Square Plaza at the block's south end in exchange for a zoning change that would let them build above the block's height cap of 125 feet. He estimated the plaza redevelopment cost at $1 million to $2 million.

In the Klutznick-Focus plan, Evanston would pay for improving the plaza with new real estate taxes generated by the tower.

"We're trying to do a major civic benefit at no cost -- rebuilding the heart," Coffey said.

Neither development team has made public a cost for its project.

Despite the slowdown in the housing market, the competing plans appear to strengthen economic momentum for a major redevelopment on the centrally located block. Downtown Evanston's center of gravity has shifted westward in recent years with the opening of a popular movie complex along the Metra tracks.

"You've got a pretty deep market in Evanston. Market conditions will certainly be different by the time this project gets under way," said Gail Lissner of Chicago-based Appraisal Research Counselors, a housing research firm. Lissner has consulted for R.D. Horner & Associates, she said, but is not working on this project.

The competing plans have other differences:

* The Klutznick-Focus plan would place parking in a five-story aboveground "podium" structure that would contain two levels of shops and, above them, a three-level parking garage. The Horner-HSA plan would put two levels of parking underground, with shops at street level and one floor above.

* The Klutznick-Focus plan would leave intact the three-story Hahn Building, an official Evanston landmark in the middle of the block. The new plan envisions stiltlike structural columns for the condo tower rising directly above the midsection of the classically decorated retail building. About half of its interior would be gutted, Coffey said.

Coffey, whose credits include the renovation of the former Medinah Temple at 600 N. Wabash Ave. into a Bloomingdale's home furnishings store, and a role as design architect for the Sherman Plaza skyscraper, said the renovation would not be a "facade-ectomy," a pejorative term for saving only a building's skin.

Structural bays along the exterior of the Hahn Building would be saved, along with the facades, he said. The tower would be set back by about 10 feet from the Hahn Building's facades and raised 20 feet above its roof to differentiate old and new.

"We're doing it very sensitively," Coffey said. "It's not wallpaper."

Carlos Ruiz, Evanston's preservation coordinator, said that while the city's preservation law allows for alteration of landmark buildings, the city's preservation commission would have to judge whether placing a tower above the Hahn Building would undercut the building's integrity.

The upper floors of the Horner-HSA tower would have 7 to 10 units apiece, Coffey said. Penthouse condominiums would be in the top three floors.

John Mangel, an HSA vice president, confirmed that the developers have an option to buy the Hahn Building and a 1940s midrise office building at the block's south end from their current owners if Evanston grants a zoning change. The midrise would be torn down, as in the Klutznick-Focus plan, to make way for an extensive remake of Fountain Square Plaza.

Coffey's plan envisions a circular, glass-walled restaurant building just north of the plaza. A monumental outdoor staircase would ascend from the plaza to a roof terrace atop the restaurant building.

Whether Evanston is ready to stretch its skyline to new heights, however, is far from certain. "There's going to be redevelopment on that block without a doubt," said Ald. Cheryl Wollin, in whose ward the towers would be built. "What kind and what it will look like is still open in my mind."

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bkamin@tribune.com dhoran@tribune.com



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