HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #221  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 3:27 PM
destroycreate's Avatar
destroycreate destroycreate is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,243
I'm really intrigued by the Arts District of LA and want to check it out next time I'm in town. How overrun is it with homeless and mentally ill? That would be my only reservation staying there considering how close it is to Skid Row. Is it an actual livable district or?
__________________
**16 years on SSP!**
Previously known as LaJollaCA

https://www.instagram.com/unlifestyled/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #222  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 3:40 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,612
^ what do you mean by registered?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #223  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 5:51 PM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by destroycreate View Post
I'm really intrigued by the Arts District of LA and want to check it out next time I'm in town. How overrun is it with homeless and mentally ill? That would be my only reservation staying there considering how close it is to Skid Row. Is it an actual livable district or?
I don't really see that many issues myself there. It's like a Silver Lake crowd more than anything.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #224  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2018, 10:43 PM
Quixote's Avatar
Quixote Quixote is offline
Stay in Yo Lane
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by destroycreate View Post
I'm really intrigued by the Arts District of LA and want to check it out next time I'm in town. How overrun is it with homeless and mentally ill? That would be my only reservation staying there considering how close it is to Skid Row. Is it an actual livable district or?
I don't find the Arts District in its current state that interesting. It's still mostly a light-industrial wasteland of warehouses, power lines, and sidewalk-less streets. In other words, it's not really an actual neighborhood yet, much less one that's livable and vibrant.

What's intriguing about the Arts District is that it's getting the most interesting projects in all of LA. It's really quite bizarre when you think about how much of a no man's land it is, being far removed from the main part of Downtown and sandwiched in between Skid Row/Industrial District and the LA River.







Reply With Quote
     
     
  #225  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2018, 12:20 AM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,133
Highrises are going up/proposed all over downtown too.

https://urbanize.la/post/fresh-rende...45-olive-tower

Here's a new 70 story proposal that wil stand out on South Park's southeastern edge. I believe there's 2 more similar proposals with in a few blocks of each other.

Here's a 33 story proposal in the Fashion District, which has few buildings over 12 stories-

https://urbanize.la/post/proposed-fa...s-key-approval

A couple awesome proposals for Chinatown, which is a lowrise/midrise neighborhood-

https://urbanize.la/post/new-details...et-development

https://urbanize.la/post/studio-gang...osed-chinatown

A 39 story hotel for Pico Union, pushing the skyline westward

https://urbanize.la/post/39-story-69...vention-center

And a massive highrise development for Historic South Central
https://urbanize.la/post/fresh-rende...la-development

These are just the ones on the fringes of downtown.

Last edited by LA21st; Jun 23, 2018 at 12:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #226  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2018, 12:20 AM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,133
The Arts District reminds me of sections of River West in Chicago. Maybe more industrial though. But alot of those new highrises will change the look , for sure. Exciting times.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #227  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2018, 1:09 AM
Quixote's Avatar
Quixote Quixote is offline
Stay in Yo Lane
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,718
I think skyscrapers, especially the ones being built today, are relatively uninteresting. They don't generate the kind of intimate streetscapes that make neighborhoods vibrant and livable. To make matters worse, most skyscraper developments these days are more or less carbon copies of each other. The stuff that's being constructed in Toronto is the same as what's going up in Vancouver, Calgary, Seattle, and Denver; there's absolutely nothing place-specific about them. Even Chicago's skyscraper developments are starting to look tired in the sense that they don't look radically different than what's already been built. NYC seems to be the only exception, but again, these buildings aren't of human scale.

The bottom line is that a sea of tall buildings won't be what differentiates DTLA from other cities. Its strength (now and moving forward) lies in the Historic Core, the potential of the Arts District, and of course the amenities.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #228  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2018, 5:57 PM
Prahaboheme Prahaboheme is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by destroycreate View Post
I'm really intrigued by the Arts District of LA and want to check it out next time I'm in town. How overrun is it with homeless and mentally ill? That would be my only reservation staying there considering how close it is to Skid Row. Is it an actual livable district or?
Absolutely spend some time there and check it out on your next visit. In my experience, the homeless tend to stay out of the Arts District, although Skid Row is nearby. There is a market on Sundays and the area is usually pretty busy. If for no other reason that it is almost nothing like any of neighborhood in LA, its worth your time. And if you enjoy old bridges, it can be fun to walk under the historic LA river bridges in the district and to see the construction of the new 6th Street bridge, which will certainly become an icon of LA in the future.

While you are at it, why not check out Boyle Heights. I find that neighborhood even more interesting.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #229  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2018, 7:24 PM
mhays mhays is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
I think skyscrapers, especially the ones being built today, are relatively uninteresting. They don't generate the kind of intimate streetscapes that make neighborhoods vibrant and livable. To make matters worse, most skyscraper developments these days are more or less carbon copies of each other. The stuff that's being constructed in Toronto is the same as what's going up in Vancouver, Calgary, Seattle, and Denver; there's absolutely nothing place-specific about them. Even Chicago's skyscraper developments are starting to look tired in the sense that they don't look radically different than what's already been built. NYC seems to be the only exception, but again, these buildings aren't of human scale.

The bottom line is that a sea of tall buildings won't be what differentiates DTLA from other cities. Its strength (now and moving forward) lies in the Historic Core, the potential of the Arts District, and of course the amenities.
Highrise housing can be awesome for urban neighborhoods. (Can't believe I'm arguing this on SSP but here goes.)

They should have active frontages (retail in many cases) and parking podiums are a huge no-no, though even those are beneficial if they're on small sites. The ones with less parking and better transit/jobs access tend to be built on people walking, which magnifies their benefit. They're much better when full of people, vs. third homes. They're also much more impactful with higher unit counts, like 400 smallish units in the same frame that might hold 150 big ones, which also brings in the middle class or at least the 40%ers. It's best to have a mix of condos for long-term residents and rentals so you have a constant influx of younger people.

I really don't care that much whether they're similar in one city vs. the next. PS, the ones in Denver aren't like the others...they tend to be 20 stories with podiums and tons of parking.

I like the aesthetics of neighborhoods full of four-story or six-story buildings, but not in the city center context unless it's London (etc.) where the architecture is on another level and transit allows a huge activity level despite moderate density.
__________________
"Alot" isn't a word.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #230  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2018, 8:27 PM
Quixote's Avatar
Quixote Quixote is offline
Stay in Yo Lane
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,718
^ What you described sounds great in theory, but where does it exist in real life? I can't think of a single urban residential skyscraper neighborhood in North America that's any more vibrant (much less interesting, much less well-designed) than the more low-mid-rise areas in their respective cities. Generic architecture aside, it's rare to find a residential skyscraper built in the last 20 years that doesn't have a podium of some sort (parking or no parking) and dense storefronts (as opposed to a giant lobby and/or driveway) with interesting retail.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #231  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2018, 9:06 PM
mhays mhays is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,727
If the podium is housing, problem solved. My point is no garage above-grade.

Parking entrances on major streets are a problem, yes. Even if they're off the alley or a smaller street they're crossing a sidewalk. Shorter buildings aren't immune to this either of course.

Dense storefronts? In my city most of the frontage is required to be retail in the denser districts (often putting retail space ahead of actual demand in fact). They only legislate frontage, not depth or number of storefronts, so it's often a couple wide and shallow spaces.

Lowrise areas can be very similar if they're the same age. The exception is older buildings on main retail streets that were built when that sort of retail was easier to make work. I like areas like that too. But even those can only do well as retail areas to a point...the dollars going to that sort of retail per person are starting to shrink in 2018 vs. 1998 due to the internet, and were much smaller in 1998 than 1928 because bigger stores have taken much of the market. Even downtown residents do a lot of their shopping at supermarkets vs. the butcher, baker, etc. And they might buy shirts at a centralized downtown retail core vs. a street closer to home.

A new building might theoretically justify 15 square feet of small storefront retail per unit (40 sf/person in US, 25% of spending in neighborhood, 1.5 people per urban multifamily unit). A 100-unit lowrise with a 15,000 sf first floor would therefore deserve 10% of the first floor to be retail. That only works if (a) the area can draw outsiders, i.e. another area loses them or (b) several other buildings are built nearby without retail, so their residents can help this building.

In the end, a great neighborhood retail street (urban district) is often one that has tons of housing near it but retains older and sometimes lower buildings directly on it, with new buildings putting effort into having great retail. A great downtown retail district of course needs to draw from an area of hundreds of thousands of people, and even 10,000 added units isn't terribly important in a direct sense, though they'll certainly add the vitality and diversity of needs to support other kinds of retail. For the downtown district, the supercharged customer base is often tourists...each hotel room means numerous shopping sprees per year.
__________________
"Alot" isn't a word.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #232  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2018, 10:18 PM
Quixote's Avatar
Quixote Quixote is offline
Stay in Yo Lane
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,718
Those are interesting numbers. You obviously work in real estate.

I think it's true that new mid-rise developments are also prone to the same design issues, especially in built-from-scratch neighborhoods like SF's Mission Bay. Well-designed mid-rises are typically infill constructed in places that already have an established prewar vernacular (i.e. anything in Downtown Manhattan). I think Portland's Pearl District is the closest thing there is to a "brand new" mid-rise neighborhood that actually feels livable, although it too is pretty spotty. Much of its attractiveness, in my opinion, is that its buildings are of good quality. There's generally few horizontal skyscrapers, no gaudy colors, etc.

It's nearly impossible to recreate prewar streetscapes from scratch, but architecture that takes cues from classical buildings goes a long way.


https://urbanize.la/sites/default/fi...?itok=xK6Qy4d2


https://urbanize.la/post/proposed-ar...ent-faces-test


https://urbanize.la/post/8000-beverl...ing-commission


https://urbanize.la/post/another-look-8000-w-3rd-street

Last edited by Quixote; Jun 23, 2018 at 10:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #233  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2018, 12:21 AM
mhays mhays is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,727
I'm not an expert in that stuff, but I work for a contractor and have a role trying to understand the markets we build in including urban multifamily, retail, office, etc.

The second one is my favorite of that group. But I don't understand why anyone would want windows down to the floor. You'd have to be presentable at all times unless you had solid blinds/curtains.
__________________
"Alot" isn't a word.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #234  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2018, 1:15 AM
saybanana saybanana is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by destroycreate View Post
I'm really intrigued by the Arts District of LA and want to check it out next time I'm in town. How overrun is it with homeless and mentally ill? That would be my only reservation staying there considering how close it is to Skid Row. Is it an actual livable district or?
Downtown LA is a large area made up of many neighborhoods and districts. Homeless issue is a major concern in a couple areas. Skid Row is the most severe in all of LA, the adjacent area called the Historic Core from Pershing Square to Skid Row. The area around El Pueblo/Olvera Street and the 101 freeway streets. Also quite a number near metro stations especially Pershing Square and 7th Street. While there are homeless in all other areas, they are so small in number and really just individuals here and there and dont bother anyone that you sometimes dont notice.

Little Tokyo is north of Skid Row but dont really notice too many homeless except the library. With all the new development at former parking lots, I've noticed less and less homeless camping out at the edges of Skid ROw and Little Tokyo.

Arts District is just east of Little Tokyo. And there are even less homeless there. There might be only a few dozen in the 2 square miles hidden in areas that hardly anyone walks. PLus there is nothing there for them like places to get food, public transportation to get around, bathrooms, or pandhandle since there are not that many people in general in the arts district.

I look at the Arts district in 2 parts. North of 4th street and south. I would say the north is where 80% of housing is located and where many lots have turned into housing and ordinary businesses are located. It is more livable in that there are things nearby and next to Little Tokyo and has a large art gallery. And a metro station nearby. South of 4th street is still mostly industrial light and warehouses. The old large buildings have been turned into lofts and some smaller buildings into restaurants, cafes. But really not that much new development has taken place, just fix up some older buildings. So dont expect much here. Not many people walking around this area.

You can use google streetview to see what it is like street by street. Only like less than 5000 people in all the 2-3 square miles of Arts District so it isn't dense in jobs or people living there. But with all the construction happening and proposals, this area can double or triple populatin and businesses and its going to be a whole different area. So it is nice to see a before and after.
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:43 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.