'Peg City ranked 19 out of 27!!! (Conference Board of Canada)

[Lee_Haber8]

Originally Posted by biguc

"Some of the areas where Winnipeg ranked among the "disappointments" were labour force productivity (23rd among the 27 cities), infant deaths per 1,000 births (25th), voter turnout (25th), percentage of homes in need of repair (26th), and maximum average temperature (26th)."


Do people actually think about this stuff when they're looking for a place to live?

Also, including labor force productivity speaks to a pretty major problem in the logic behind this ranking: how they account for economic performance. They could have something like, say, job market being an attractor to individuals, and labor productivity attracting business, but they can't sit there and say economic performance makes a city more attractive, then say something like, "The paradigm of 'people go where the jobs are' is changing to 'businesses going where the people with the skills and talent want to live.'". I understand they only mean that as a corollary, but it's still a stupid thing to say.

Also, if you make stats used in determining which place is most desirable, places end up equal. There's a reason Winnipeg is cheaper than Toronto: it's less desirable by a host of other factors. But accounting for its cost levels the difference. This matters because eliminating certain criteria seems arbitrary. If you ask me, trying to build an "attractiveness" grade out of abstract information is foolish; just look at where people are actually going. By that standard, Winnipeg is still underperforming, but whatever.

Also, did they seriously rank Washington as the best place in the states? As in DC? That place is a shithole. If they really did that, their moronic methodology has played out in moronic results.

Hey, DC has actually improved tremendously in the last 20 years. They've planned some really nice neighbourhoods around the second best transit system in the US. Check out these articles in Price tags http://www.sightline.org/publication...rs/price_tags/

Back to Winnipeg. This study, though flawed in some way like all studies are, shows that Winnipeg is indeed crap. However, it will do nothing to wake up the politicians and the civic leaders. Falling from 3rd to 9th in population ranking should have been a wake-up call; it wasn't. Having many company headquarters like Loblaws leave the city should have been a wake-up call; it wasn't. The people who are in power are content with the quagmire we call a city and most people are too busy being poor to care

[biguc]

Originally Posted by drew

Haven't you seen Trailer Park Boys? I think Ricky may argue your point about jail being fun.

I still stand by my opinion that fun is most certainly NOT quantifiable. Paying money for something has little or nothing to do with this argument. Sure you can pay for something that YOU like, but in order to be willing to pay for it, you would still be expecting it to be fun beforehand.

You know how economists talk about utility in dollar terms? Price is the universal quantifier of things people like--utility. Case in point, if somebody pays 10 dollars to go to a club, buys 6 drinks at $6 each, that night out is worth $46 to that person. If he says he went there because it's fun, then we've just quantified his fun at $46.

Jeff, if you find any numbers, I'd love to see them.

Lee, you're right about DC. I was overstating things when I said it was a shit hole. Nevertheless, the most attractive place in North America? Hardly. A perfect 'A'? No. Look at one of the criteria Winnipeg did poorly on, homes needing repair. If DC did well on that ranking at all it's only because they've managed to bulldoze all their abandoned buildings. But urban prairie isn't attractive.

[Jolly]

Originally Posted by biguc

You know how economists talk about utility in dollar terms? Price is the universal quantifier of things people like--utility. Case in point, if somebody pays 10 dollars to go to a club, buys 6 drinks at $6 each, that night out is worth $46 to that person. If he says he went there because it's fun, then we've just quantified his fun at $46.

Nope. They say it was worth at least $46 to him. Didn't yer econ instructor teach ya about consumer surplus...? All price measures is marginal valuation...

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by Jolly

Nope. They say it was worth at least $46 to him. Didn't yer econ instructor teach ya about consumer surplus...? All price measures is marginal valuation...

... of course there is a declining marginal rate of utility for nearly all goods.. and once this marginal rate of utilitity falls below the price the consumer stops consuming.

Therefore the marginal utility of living in a city must outwiegh it price.

The problem is what sums up the apreciated utility when choosing to live in a city, and does this survey match it?

example: Living in Calgary I am very aware of the lack of grade schools in many communities.. and many children busing up to 30-40 minutes each way. Calgary transit is packed with highschool students who must us it to get to and from a school no where near there homes. Is this an example of poor utility? As a transit user and a parent I would think it is.

[Jolly]

Utility is just a way of ranking preferences over different choices. Weigh the pros and cons of living in different cities and pick the best one (i.e. the one with the highest utility). Obviously job opportunities, prices, etc. will affect the "utility" of living in any given city.

Anyhow, economists don't measure utility in dollars, though for a given set of prices they can talk about the amount of money required to achieve a certain level of utility or well-being.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Jolly

Nope. They say it was worth at least $46 to him. Didn't yer econ instructor teach ya about consumer surplus...? All price measures is marginal valuation...

Yeah, yeah. I'm simplifying things here to make a broader point.

[spiritedenergy]

I was talking with this graduate student from Brazil... so depressing discussion. He basically hates Winnipeg because (that's what he said): there is nothing to do, if you're alone and don't have a girlfriend it's overly depressing, it's so fucking cold, there is no one around in the streets, the quality of life is low. He's been here since 2 years, and now he's working hard to finish and leave to Toronto. So I guess the study is kinda right...

[ScrappyPeg]

Originally Posted by spiritedenergy

I was talking with this graduate student from Brazil... so depressing discussion. He basically hates Winnipeg because (that's what he said): there is nothing to do, if you're alone and don't have a girlfriend it's overly depressing, it's so fucking cold, there is no one around in the streets, the quality of life is low. He's been here since 2 years, and now he's working hard to finish and leave to Toronto. So I guess the study is kinda right...

From a female perspective - and just as an observation - sounds like a typical whining single male.

[spiritedenergy]

Originally Posted by ScrappyPeg

From a female perspective - and just as an observation - sounds like a typical whining single male.

Are you female?

Yes it was pretty pathetic, but I too noticed males complain way more (me included) about Winnipeg.

[ILYR]

Originally Posted by spiritedenergy

I was talking with this graduate student from Brazil... so depressing discussion. He basically hates Winnipeg because ... it's so fucking cold ...

What? Someone from Brazil complaining about Winnipeg winters (or even summers for that matter).

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by spiritedenergy

I was talking with this graduate student from Brazil... so depressing discussion. He basically hates Winnipeg because (that's what he said): there is nothing to do, if you're alone and don't have a girlfriend it's overly depressing, it's so fucking cold, there is no one around in the streets, the quality of life is low. He's been here since 2 years, and now he's working hard to finish and leave to Toronto. So I guess the study is kinda right...

LOL .. yeah Toronto does't get winter.

Tell him he'll love the brown skies in the summer too.