Sports in Canadian culture

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd say there is much less of a bandwagon trendy effect with soccer. It's a growing sport for sure but it's not like the NBA with hip hop and pop music stars, etc.

Basketball teams are far smaller than most other team sports. No other sport really comes close to the 1v1 nature of basketball, and when you only have five players on court at all times they have to be good or else they'll be shown the door pretty quickly. Basketball, with its hip hop and pop music stars, breeds cult of personality exactly because it is so dependent on individuals excelling. You can flat out dominate and win games singlehandedly unlike in other sports, hockey for one, which absolutely depends on a team effort.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd say there is much less of a bandwagon trendy effect with soccer. It's a growing sport for sure but it's not like the NBA with hip hop and pop music stars, etc.

Soccer culture is the primary source of fashion trends in western youth culture (basketball, baseball, football play that role in north america). There are tv channels devoted just to WAGS and their lifestyles, in Europe (wives and girlfriends of soccer stars). Every other kid in latin america seems to sport a faux hawk at some point, ever met a Russian guy that didnt wear adidas gear? The list goes on. Probably why despite strong participation, soccer is still a niche, if growing, spectator sport in NA. North Americans are still a somewhat provincial bunch, though not as much as the rest of the world. The culturally globalized population here is still limited though increasing.

[eemy]

Have any other cities started their race season yet this year? Waterloo Region has a running series that got started today with the Re-Fridgee-Eighter, an 8 km or 8 mile road race, or a 3 km family fun run. Last year, they were dealing with blowing snow and -25C temps; this year we had sunshine, clear skies, and a balmy 5C or so. I was actually a bit overdressed for it! In any case, turn out was great, which was hardly surprising, and it's definitely built anticipation for spring.

This winter has been unsurpassed, though not without its downsides. I've never experienced such great lengths of fantastic weather for running outside in the winter, but it has also felt like spring is right around the corner since January, and every single time we get snowfall, it's a rather harsh reminder that it's still February and April is still over a month away.

[GernB]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Have any other cities started their race season yet this year? Waterloo Region has a running series that got started today with the Re-Fridgee-Eighter, an 8 km or 8 mile road race, or a 3 km family fun run. Last year, they were dealing with blowing snow and -25C temps; this year we had sunshine, clear skies, and a balmy 5C or so. I was actually a bit overdressed for it! In any case, turn out was great, which was hardly surprising, and it's definitely built anticipation for spring.

This winter has been unsurpassed, though not without its downsides. I've never experienced such great lengths of fantastic weather for running outside in the winter, but it has also felt like spring is right around the corner since January, and every single time we get snowfall, it's a rather harsh reminder that it's still February and April is still over a month away.

There was some kind of race going on yesterday here, but I didn't see any notice in the paper of what it might have been. Seemed to be more of participation thing than competitive.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Have any other cities started their race season yet this year? Waterloo Region has a running series that got started today with the Re-Fridgee-Eighter, an 8 km or 8 mile road race, or a 3 km family fun run. Last year, they were dealing with blowing snow and -25C temps; this year we had sunshine, clear skies, and a balmy 5C or so. I was actually a bit overdressed for it! In any case, turn out was great, which was hardly surprising, and it's definitely built anticipation for spring.

This winter has been unsurpassed, though not without its downsides. I've never experienced such great lengths of fantastic weather for running outside in the winter, but it has also felt like spring is right around the corner since January, and every single time we get snowfall, it's a rather harsh reminder that it's still February and April is still over a month away.

Ottawa had the annual Winterman races last weekend, and they actually did them, despite temperatures in the -25 to -30 range. The Winterman includes marathon, half-marathon, 10k, 5k and 3k distances.

[eemy]

Is that in conjunction with Winterlude?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Soccer culture is the primary source of fashion trends in western youth culture (basketball, baseball, football play that role in north america). There are tv channels devoted just to WAGS and their lifestyles, in Europe (wives and girlfriends of soccer stars). Every other kid in latin america seems to sport a faux hawk at some point, ever met a Russian guy that didnt wear adidas gear? The list goes on. Probably why despite strong participation, soccer is still a niche, if growing, spectator sport in NA. North Americans are still a somewhat provincial bunch, though not as much as the rest of the world. The culturally globalized population here is still limited though increasing.

I'd say most North American kids haven't gotten that memo yet. Or at least, they don't generally associate the stuff they've latched onto with soccer.

Even in Europe though the relationship between soccer and popular music pales in comparison to the NBA-pop music relationship in North America.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Is that in conjunction with Winterlude?

Yes it is

[Oilkountry]

soccer presence in this country is often highly inflated. In our 3 MLS markets the soccer following is a fairly small but passionate group, especially the TFC supporters. but I often wonder if TFC's rabid fan base speaks for the MLS and Soccer a a whole in this country. The Impact are seeming to struggle in Montreal lately. Vancouver is strong as usual. I don't think The existing soccer market in Canada is old enough to judge where it currently or will eventually stand in the Canadian sports culture. Our MLS history only goes back a decade The NASL is what it is i guess? I really don't know where that league ranks among the soccer community but im willing to bed not very high

[Nicko999]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

soccer presence in this country is often highly inflated. In our 3 MLS markets the soccer following is a fairly small but passionate group, especially the TFC supporters. but I often wonder if TFC's rabid fan base speaks for the MLS and Soccer a a whole in this country. The Impact are seeming to struggle in Montreal lately. Vancouver is strong as usual. I don't think The existing soccer market in Canada is old enough to judge where it currently or will eventually stand in the Canadian sports culture. Our MLS history only goes back a decade The NASL is what it is i guess? I really don't know where that league ranks among the soccer community but im willing to bed not very high

We had our post CCL hungover where attendance was awful but once the ownership group showed their willingness to be competitive (and to invest money in players), fans responded. Drogba helped of course. The Impact are the second most popular team in the city well ahead of the Alouettes.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Nicko999

We had our post CCL hungover where attendance was awful but once the ownership group showed their willingness to be competitive (and to invest money in players), fans responded. Drogba helped of course. The Impact are the second most popular team in the city well ahead of the Alouettes.

Yeah, Montreal and Vancouver definitely get soccer culture and have a passionate fanbase. If ownership is professional and invests in the team then the supporters will come out. If teams show no ambition and ownership half-asses things or worse mistreats fans then they have every right to walk out.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nicko999

We had our post CCL hungover where attendance was awful but once the ownership group showed their willingness to be competitive (and to invest money in players), fans responded. Drogba helped of course. The Impact are the second most popular team in the city well ahead of the Alouettes.

I'd say they are virtually tied for second.

[esquire]

^ Montreal seems pretty fickle as sports markets go... teams go up and down unpredictably. The Expos and Als were once toasts of the town only to play in front of meagre crowds a few years later...

[Nicko999]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd say they are virtually tied for second.

Not with the Als having no QB and the Impact having Drogba.

The Impact is building a strong brand. Not only have they brought world class players like Drogba but Impact Media is doing an amazing job with the videos they post on Youtube. They are appealing to a much younger audience than the Als and the CFL in general.

And as a comparison:

Facebook:
Montreal Alouettes: 215,091 likes
Montreal Impact: 289,602 likes
...
Vancouver WhiteCaps: 185,425 likes
BC Lions: 156,762 likes
...
Toronto FC: 270,388 likes
Toronto Argonauts: 47,142 likes (ouch)

Youtube:
Montreal Alouettes: 772 subscribers
Montreal Impact: 9,130 subscribers
...
Vancouver WhiteCaps: 8,775 subscribers
BC Lions: 1,099 subscribers
...
Toronto FC: 12,116 subscribers
Toronto Argonauts: 1,760 subscribers

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Nicko999

The Impact are the second most popular team in the city well ahead of the Alouettes.

here we go... According to what? Your bunk social media stats? It's no secret that the CFL attracts an older crowd on average, to compare the twitter followers of the 2 is just manipulative. How many 30s-50s age group are using twitter compared to 20s-40s that are MLS supporters? The riders only have under 160K followers and that is in no way an accurate representation of the support that team has in this country (please argue that). Also compare the 2 leagues. The CFL is a 9 team League domestic to Canada. MLS is a 20 team league operating in both canada and the US. And please don't act like that doesn't affect social media. The leafs and raps are just about tied in Twitter followers, That has way less to do with the status they have in Toronto, over the NBA's profile in North America compared to the NHL.

It's hilarious to me that the same guys claiming the Argos drawing under 20,000 fans for literally 1 regular season is "the end all be all" for the CFL in Toronto yet when it happens in the MLS it's "just a phase"(and yes i realise that the argos have drawn under 20K for 2 consecutive seasons but lets not forget they on played only like 4-5 games in Toronto last season in which they averaged 18K in a lame duck season)

Anyway back to the Als vs Impact I could bring up tv ratings and attendance figures but to Soccer fans these things are irrelevant so whats the point? You will just hit me back with franchise values,players salaries and all the other things that somehow directly reflect fan support

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Nicko999

The Impact is building a strong brand....

Pedantic off-topic rant: The North American convention for following abstract grammatical rules that fly in the face of reality and reason really gets to me. The Impact are a team, not "is" a team, just like the Jays are a team and the Gunners are a team, etc. Every time I watch the Miami Heat play I wince when the play-by-play guys say things like "the Heat is really getting more rebounds this quarter," or "the Heat is taking more of its shots from behind the arc," etc.

It's just so...wrong. Toronto are a good team, not "is" a good team. Well, actually, they're not, if we're talking about the Leafs. But seriously, when someone asks you how Montreal are/is doing, you don't say "it's doing well." Right? Can you imagine asking someone if they like Manchester United, and that person saying "it's my favourite team?" Of course not.

I admit I've been influenced by too much UK media, as I can't watch North American TV shows or movies, but like in so many things, they just make so much more sense over there when it comes to this. And sorry Nicko, didn't mean to jump all over you here, I'm not singling you out (and you don't have to worry, the way you said it is the way people here generally say it).

Rant over.

Originally Posted by Nicko999

They are appealing to a much younger audience than the Als and the CFL in general.

And as a comparison:

Facebook:
Montreal Alouettes: 215,091 likes
Montreal Impact: 289,602 likes
...
Vancouver WhiteCaps: 185,425 likes
BC Lions: 156,762 likes
...
Toronto FC: 270,388 likes
Toronto Argonauts: 47,142 likes (ouch)

Youtube:
Montreal Alouettes: 772 subscribers
Montreal Impact: 9,130 subscribers
...
Vancouver WhiteCaps: 8,775 subscribers
BC Lions: 1,099 subscribers
...
Toronto FC: 12,116 subscribers
Toronto Argonauts: 1,760 subscribers

Those Facebook "like" counts actually look pretty good for the CFL teams (save for the Argos), all things considering. Even so, Facebook is mainstream now, it isn't a byword for youth culture anymore, and probably hasn't been for several years. Youtube is probably a better barometer for what younger people are up to.

Just for interest's sake:

Facebook:
Detroit Pistons: 1,619,824 likes
Toronto Raptors: 1,893,517 likes
New York Knicks: 5,810,250 likes
Golden State Warriors: 6,161,794 likes
Boston Celtics: 8,628,525 likes
Chicago Bulls: 18,219,960 likes
Los Angeles Lakers: 21,411,876 likes

Youtube:
Montreal Canadiens: 66,159 subscribers
Vancouver Canucks: 60,414 subscribers
Toronto Raptors: 38,505 subscribers
Toronto Maple Leafs: 30,396 subscribers (something seems off here, surely there's some explanation for this lower figure? Maybe there are other video sources out there for Leafs fans?)
(The Blue Jays don't seem to have an official Youtube channel, they do video on their own website.)

[Oilkountry]

Lets just stop acting like Facebook likes are the gold standard of Fan support measurement.

I can't stand the insecurity of MLS fans in this country. I mean yes I argue on behalf of the cfl and the Argos, but I don't mind a good debate by nature so I really don't reflect well as a general cfl fan...here's why!

-As a whole the MLS loses money. Almost every franchise does. CFL fans couldn't care less

-More than a handful of MLS teams have attendance issues 6 of 20 under 18K last year. MLS fans are all over the Argos for this....CFL fans couldn't care less

-MLS teams have HORRIBLE TV ratings.....CFL fans couldn't care less

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

here we go... According to what? Your bunk social media stats? It's no secret that the CFL attracts an older crowd on average, to compare the twitter followers of the 2 is just manipulative. How many 30s-50s age group are using twitter compared to 20s-40s that are MLS supporters? The riders only have under 160K followers and that is in no way an accurate representation of the support that team has in this country (please argue that). Also compare the 2 leagues. The CFL is a 9 team League domestic to Canada. MLS is a 20 team league operating in both canada and the US. And please don't act like that doesn't affect social media. The leafs and raps are just about tied in Twitter followers, That has way less to do with the status they have in Toronto, over the NBA's profile in North America compared to the NHL.

It's hilarious to me that the same guys claiming the Argos drawing under 20,000 fans for literally 1 regular season is "the end all be all" for the CFL in Toronto yet when it happens in the MLS it's "just a phase"(and yes i realise that the argos have drawn under 20K for 2 consecutive seasons but lets not forget they on played only like 4-5 games in Toronto last season in which they averaged 18K in a lame duck season)

Anyway back to the Als vs Impact I could bring up tv ratings and attendance figures but to Soccer fans these things are irrelevant so whats the point? You will just hit me back with franchise values,players salaries and all the other things that somehow directly reflect fan support

Well, regarding TV ratings the Alouettes generally get double what L'Impact get.

So for regular games its 250k for the Als and 125k for L'Impact as averages.

When the Alouettes play in the Grey Cup they get over 1 million in Quebec on RDS alone. The equivalent for L'Impact would be those big CONCACAF games last spring. They got about 500k.

But yes, L'Impact are ascendant and the Alouettes are stagnant or declining.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But yes, L'Impact are ascendant and the Alouettes are stagnant or declining.

where?

Attendance? Nope...same or higher than the last 5 year average...1200 up from the season before

Tv ratings? Nope... still same great CFL ratings

please explain to me where this is happening...Because even in the post AC era the Als seem pretty solid to me

meanwhile in saputo land...

The Montreal Impact want to get the buzz back in their dwindling fan base.

Team owner and president Joey Saputo didn’t hide his disappointment in falling ticket sales and fan interest in the team, which played before swathes of empty seats as it finished last in Major League Soccer last season

The club that drew more then 50,000 to a CONCACAF Champions League quarter-final at Olympic Stadium in 2009 now fears it may only get half that for a similar match with Mexican club Pachuca on March 3.
"The buzz is not there anymore,” Saputo said at a gathering of media at the team’s home stadium on Wednesday. “Not only for the CONCACAF game, I can say the buzz for the Impact is not there.
“That worries me a lot.”

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

where?

Attendance? Nope...same or higher than the last 5 year average...1200 up from the season before

Tv ratings? Nope... still same great CFL ratings

please explain to me where this is happening...Because even in the post AC era the Als seem pretty solid to me

meanwhile in saputo land...

Acajack had some fairly good comments and he's pretty much always quite balanced in his assessments. The Alouettes do feel like they could use a bit of a boost since Calvillo left the field. They could also probably do with lowering some of their prices... it worked when their attendance was maxed out at 20,202, but since expanding they haven't really consistently hit the new capacity. Their supply/demand curve is a little out of whack now.