PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[MyDadBuiltThat]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

They still own the land though, right? Or is that just the Cynwyd trail?

If the railroad right of way has been converted to trails using the federal Rails to Trails legislation, which is almost always the case though I can't speak to any specific trail, then any railroad can apply to return the right of way to rail use. That was the purpose of the legislation - to allow alternate use of the right of way (and also removing the maintenance cost from the railroads) while preserving the right of way. There was real fear back in 70's when the railroads were going bankrupt that the rights of way would be redeveloped and they would be prohibitively expense to reassemble if they were needed again.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by MyDadBuiltThat

If the railroad right of way has been converted to trails using the federal Rails to Trails legislation, which is almost always the case though I can't speak to any specific trail, then any railroad can apply to return the right of way to rail use. That was the purpose of the legislation - to allow alternate use of the right of way (and also removing the maintenance cost from the railroads) while preserving the right of way. There was real fear back in 70's when the railroads were going bankrupt that the rights of way would be redeveloped and they would be prohibitively expense to reassemble if they were needed again.

While this provision is built into the law, not only has no rail-trail been returned to railroad use, but you can bet your ass that the moment one is proposed to, it will trigger a NIMBY bloodbath which will also probably set legal precedent for other rail-trails across the country (most likely requiring them to provide a parallel or alternate multi-use trail to offset the one being displaced).

I would add that I don't think rail-trails were necessarily even the best solution to the problem (namely that of disused or abandoned easements returning to their original owners or successors of the original owners). A better solution might've been a legal option to resurrect abandoned easements, if you can prove their previous existence, with a minimum of muss and fuss.

[summersm343]

Rowan - A Fast-Growing New Jersey College Builds A Town To Go With It





Read/view more here:
http://www.phillymag.com/property/20...o/#gallery-2-9

[Nova08]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Ultimately, being bureaucratic in nature, infrastructure planning probably lags public perception by some time. But I wouldn't be too surprised if the percolating increase in rail investment that's been happening nationwide reaches our neck of the woods sooner or later.

The State College CSA actually has a little over 230k people living in it. It's also got Penn State which would have an inherent ridership draw. You're underestimating it.

Also interesting that the first city you thought of wasn't Reading or Scranton or the Lehigh Valley, no?

That's always in their budget report. They're rail-trailed the ROW they owned from Shelly to the Lehigh Country border, though, and from there on to Bethlehem's been rail-trailed as well.

I'm not exactly sure I understand your question but I assume you mean why I do not question the viability of rail to Reading, Scranton, or the Lehigh Valley.

A few things I considered
1.) Whatever is built will be a ton of money. Subsequently the routes will likely need to sustain a half decent amount of service. 2-4 trains a day isn't going to cut it on a multi-billion dollar investment.
2.) Not that I don't think State College can support service, but where does it go? Does it go to Harrisburg then Philly, does it go to Pittsburgh, does it go south to connect to the HBG-PIT line? And in the western part of the state you have to deal with a terrain that is not very conducive to faster passenger rail. Passenger rail needs to either more convenient or faster than driving.
3a.) Lehigh County already faces a bit of pull towards NYC, despite not being all that far from Philly. Whenever the NE Extension construction is complete it should help things, but drivers/busses face the inevitable congestion on I76 or the Blue Route. Making a semi-regular commute to center city just about unbearable.
3b.) Reading is much of the same with the addition of possible 422 traffic.
3c.) Rail infrastructure already exists from Philly to Reading and at least part of the way to Lehigh Valley. It's a matter of adding a dedicated track along the NS main to Reading so there is minimal if any sharing of track. Allentown will be a bit tougher, but not impossible.
4.) I question the viability of Scranton. Again, rugged terrain and NJT may get there someday. I don't think Scranton needs rail connections to both NYC and Philly.

[MyDadBuiltThat]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

While this provision is built into the law, not only has no rail-trail been returned to railroad use, but you can bet your ass that the moment one is proposed to, it will trigger a NIMBY bloodbath which will also probably set legal precedent for other rail-trails across the country (most likely requiring them to provide a parallel or alternate multi-use trail to offset the one being displaced).

I would add that I don't think rail-trails were necessarily even the best solution to the problem (namely that of disused or abandoned easements returning to their original owners or successors of the original owners). A better solution might've been a legal option to resurrect abandoned easements, if you can prove their previous existence, with a minimum of muss and fuss.

The law is clear so railroads would have no legal impediment to returning trails to rail use nor would there be any requirement for new trails. But they knew that trying to do so would result in such a huge publicity shit storm that they were selective in the rails they chose to sign over to trails groups - ones with almost zero probability of being economically viable and reclaimed. There have only been a few small spur rails reclaimed, up in PA fracking county.

You may be correct regarding best solutions but the big concern at the time was the permanent loss of rights of way in and around cities/growing suburbs once housing subdivisions, etc were constructed on them.

Not trying to be overly technical and the lawyers among us will have a better understanding of the legal definitions, but as best I remember we are talking about rights of way generally here east of the Mississippi and not easements, which is why rails to trails works here.

[summersm343]

2 suburban Whole Foods locations back on track

Two Whole Foods grocery stores, once expected to open earlier this year, are now on track to welcome customers at different times in 2018.

In August 2015, Pennsylvania Real Estate Investment Trust (NYSEEI) said Whole Foods had signed a lease to occupy 55,000 square feet at the Exton Square Mall in Exton, Pa., and the store was anticipated to open some time this year but that never happened. Rachel Dean Wilson, a spokeswoman for the organic grocer, said now the store is scheduled to open early next year.

After indefinitely delaying the opening of the Whole Foods at Ellis Preserve, the grocery store chain is moving ahead with the store with a target opening next fall.

Equus Capital Partners, the developer of Ellis Preserve at the intersection of Route 252 and Route 3 in Newtown Square, Pa., had long ago constructed a 51,7000-square-foot shell building for Whole Foods in anticipation of the grocer fitting it out for the planned opening last July but that date came and went with no real sense of whether it would eventually happen. That has changed.

“Whole Foods has recently committed that they are opening,” said Steve Spaeder of Equus Capital Partners.

The store will continue to be 51,700 square feet, the size it had always intended, but will be redesigned to incorporate “Amazon functions,” Spaeder said.

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...ing-exton.html

[summersm343]

Food company expands in South Jersey, plans to relocate corporate HQ

Chelten House Products Inc., a distributor of a range of organic products and private label salad dressings, marinades and pasta sauces, is relocating its corporate offices and expanding its distribution space into a new 209,437-square-foot building in Logan, Gloucester County.

The building at 200 Progress Court is being developed by NFI, a South Jersey developer and third-party logistics company that broke ground on the project yesterday. The structure has been designed so that it can be expanded to around 400,000 square feet. In addition, a rail-loading dock has been incorporated into the design.

Chelten House has its South Jersey operations a couple of miles away at 607 Heron Drive in Swedesboro and, though it will relocate its corporate offices, the company will continue to maintain that space.

Logan sits in the growing South Jersey industrial corridor and the food industry is one of the dominant users of the distribution space there.

One of the primary reasons this part of the Garden State is so attractive to food-related, health and other industries looking to distribute their goods is its access to the Pennsylvania and New Jersey Turnpike, I-295 and the Blue Route. It is also near the Port of Camden, not far from Philadelphia as well as the food distribution center in South Philadelphia. Another reason driving South Jersey’s distribution market is a lack of land that can be developed in the Central and North Jersey distribution hubs at Exit 8A and above along the New Jersey Turnpike.

The Chelten House project and it is expected to be completed by September 2018.

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...-plans-to.html

[SJPhillyBoy]

NJ gives initial OK for $5.6M to help Icahn raze casino

http://www.courierpostonline.com/sto...ino/887771001/

[domodeez]

Wilmington's 618 Market restoration is (almost) a wrap

After:


Before:


Way before:

Wilmington-based developer, The Buccini/Pollin Group, Inc. (BPG), and BPGS Construction (BPGS) are pleased to reveal the exquisite transformation of 2 East 7th Street back to its former building façade dating back to 1895. With only photographs as historical building data, The BPGS Construction team worked diligently to restore the building to its glory days when it housed a Snellenburg’s department store at the turn of the 20th century, complete with a standing seam metal roof and 13-foot copper finial.

Once again, a historic staple of Market Street, the building now consists of 15 units part of the MKT brand as 618 MKT and 4,500 sq ft of retail scheduled to open with a Grand Opening and Ribbon Cutting Celebration. The brand-new apartments consist of 13 one-bedrooms and 2 studios making the new unit total for the MKT community which spans up and down Market Street from the 400 to 800 blocks to 162 apartments.

More details to follow on the Grand Opening and Ribbon Cutting Celebration occurring on December 5th at 10:00 am.

http://www.bpgsconstruction.com/2-ea...tch-the-video/

[Philly-Drew]

Just what South Jersey needs. More shopping malls!

http://www.philly.com/philly/health/...-20171124.html

[Slyfox]

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

Just what South Jersey needs. More shopping malls!

http://www.philly.com/philly/health/...-20171124.html

Makes sense.... I'm sure this online shopping thing is just a fad and brick and mortar is due for a comeback........ and sears will come back from the dead..... and Gimbels

[Slyfox]

Originally Posted by Nova08

I'm not exactly sure I understand your question but I assume you mean why I do not question the viability of rail to Reading, Scranton, or the Lehigh Valley.

A few things I considered
1.) Whatever is built will be a ton of money. Subsequently the routes will likely need to sustain a half decent amount of service. 2-4 trains a day isn't going to cut it on a multi-billion dollar investment.
2.) Not that I don't think State College can support service, but where does it go? Does it go to Harrisburg then Philly, does it go to Pittsburgh, does it go south to connect to the HBG-PIT line? And in the western part of the state you have to deal with a terrain that is not very conducive to faster passenger rail. Passenger rail needs to either more convenient or faster than driving.
3a.) Lehigh County already faces a bit of pull towards NYC, despite not being all that far from Philly. Whenever the NE Extension construction is complete it should help things, but drivers/busses face the inevitable congestion on I76 or the Blue Route. Making a semi-regular commute to center city just about unbearable.
3b.) Reading is much of the same with the addition of possible 422 traffic.
3c.) Rail infrastructure already exists from Philly to Reading and at least part of the way to Lehigh Valley. It's a matter of adding a dedicated track along the NS main to Reading so there is minimal if any sharing of track. Allentown will be a bit tougher, but not impossible.
4.) I question the viability of Scranton. Again, rugged terrain and NJT may get there someday. I don't think Scranton needs rail connections to both NYC and Philly.

As a former New Yorker (albeit briefly) I love rail and mass transit, I dream of a day when we can all take fast rail (or hyperloop or whatever) to our jobs and out to eat and virtually everywhere..... however at the time, most rail ends up slower and taking longer than driving and is equally as expensive (I out drive SEPTA rail every morning on 495, and I've looked into taking the train multiple times, but according to schedules and coworkers who have opted for rail, it turns a 60 minutes car ride into a 1:45-2 hour train/bus ride), if they did do anything it would have to be subsidized heavily like most government rail lines in the US, and I don't think the PA state or regional governments/municipalities have the stomach for spending millions-billions annually on rail systems that only a handful of people use.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Slyfox

As a former New Yorker (albeit briefly) I love rail and mass transit, I dream of a day when we can all take fast rail (or hyperloop or whatever) to our jobs and out to eat and virtually everywhere..... however at the time, most rail ends up slower and taking longer than driving and is equally as expensive (I out drive SEPTA rail every morning on 495, and I've looked into taking the train multiple times, but according to schedules and coworkers who have opted for rail, it turns a 60 minutes car ride into a 1:45-2 hour train/bus ride), if they did do anything it would have to be subsidized heavily like most government rail lines in the US, and I don't think the PA state or regional governments/municipalities have the stomach for spending millions-billions annually on rail systems that only a handful of people use.

wilmington to CC Philly is not 2 hours. IT's not as fast as we would like, but it's not that bad. The fact that it's on Amtrak territory certainly doesn't help as their trains take priority.

[jonesrmj]

I got bored so I made a little map of where the Christina River Bridge and New Sweden Street will be compared to the existing riverfront.

[IMG]Christina River Bridge and New Sweden Street Map by jonesrmj, on Flickr[/IMG]

Edit: I misspelled Sweden in the picture. Opps.

[Nova08]

Originally Posted by Slyfox

As a former New Yorker (albeit briefly) I love rail and mass transit, I dream of a day when we can all take fast rail (or hyperloop or whatever) to our jobs and out to eat and virtually everywhere..... however at the time, most rail ends up slower and taking longer than driving and is equally as expensive (I out drive SEPTA rail every morning on 495, and I've looked into taking the train multiple times, but according to schedules and coworkers who have opted for rail, it turns a 60 minutes car ride into a 1:45-2 hour train/bus ride), if they did do anything it would have to be subsidized heavily like most government rail lines in the US, and I don't think the PA state or regional governments/municipalities have the stomach for spending millions-billions annually on rail systems that only a handful of people use.

This really depends on where people work. If someone works in center city/university city the train should be competitive to driving/parking. But that competitiveness goes down if multiple modes of transportation are needed to get to the Navy Yard, City Line Ave., etc. But the shuttle from Jefferson to the Navy Yard adds ~30 minutes to a one-way trip yet the shuttles are bursting at the seams.

It also depends on traffic patterns. It regularly takes over an hour to go from KOP/Conshohocken to center city in the morning rush, a distance that is only 20-25 miles. Forget about the time, the sheer stress of 20 miles of bumper to bumper traffic pushes people to the train.

Originally Posted by 1487

wilmington to CC Philly is not 2 hours. IT's not as fast as we would like, but it's not that bad. The fact that it's on Amtrak territory certainly doesn't help as their trains take priority.

Regular trains are ~55 minutes and expresses are 40-45. But there aren't many expresses. Amtrak doesn't help, but a good portion of the line is 4 tracks and Amtrak should be able to dispatch it better.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Nova08

This really depends on where people work. If someone works in center city/university city the train should be competitive to driving/parking. But that competitiveness goes down if multiple modes of transportation are needed to get to the Navy Yard, City Line Ave., etc. But the shuttle from Jefferson to the Navy Yard adds ~30 minutes to a one-way trip yet the shuttles are bursting at the seams.

It also depends on traffic patterns. It regularly takes over an hour to go from KOP/Conshohocken to center city in the morning rush, a distance that is only 20-25 miles. Forget about the time, the sheer stress of 20 miles of bumper to bumper traffic pushes people to the train.


Regular trains are ~55 minutes and expresses are 40-45. But there aren't many expresses. Amtrak doesn't help, but a good portion of the line is 4 tracks and Amtrak should be able to dispatch it better.

Conshohocken is no more than 8 miles from Center City. KOP maybe 15. 18 Max.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Conshohocken is no more than 8 miles from Center City. KOP maybe 15. 18 Max.

Conshy tends to be about a 20-25 minute train ride, whereas it's a 40 minute car ride because I-76 was, for whatever reason, only built with two lanes.

There's honestly nothing SEPTA can do to improve times; it takes almost the most direct route, and the trains tend to do about 50-60 MPH on the straightaways. Maybe make all platforms at door level to allow faster access to trains? That might shave a minute or two off.

I've always thought that there should be an express service on that line that only stops at Norristown, Conshy, and Manayunk, and uses the Cynwyd line as a quicker route to center city. If the trains did about 40 on the Cynwyd line (provided that the necessary safety infrastructure was put in place), it would shave about 5 mins off of the trip into center city (though now it would hit 30th first, rather than Temple). The bridge at Manayunk has been evaluated to be structurally stable to handle train service, so that would be ok (though it is now a rail trail. My girlfriend's dad is VP and we often argue if the trail and a train line could coexist).

[summersm343]

Why Amazon Will Set Up a Big Clothing Plant in Philly’s Backyard

Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/business/20...eFoP1tZgl2D.99

[1487]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Conshy tends to be about a 20-25 minute train ride, whereas it's a 40 minute car ride because I-76 was, for whatever reason, only built with two lanes.

There's honestly nothing SEPTA can do to improve times; it takes almost the most direct route, and the trains tend to do about 50-60 MPH on the straightaways. Maybe make all platforms at door level to allow faster access to trains? That might shave a minute or two off.

I've always thought that there should be an express service on that line that only stops at Norristown, Conshy, and Manayunk, and uses the Cynwyd line as a quicker route to center city. If the trains did about 40 on the Cynwyd line (provided that the necessary safety infrastructure was put in place), it would shave about 5 mins off of the trip into center city (though now it would hit 30th first, rather than Temple). The bridge at Manayunk has been evaluated to be structurally stable to handle train service, so that would be ok (though it is now a rail trail. My girlfriend's dad is VP and we often argue if the trail and a train line could coexist).

76 has only 4 lanes because they underestimated how much traffic would use it upon opening in the 50s and because of the topography- adding capacity would be incredibly expensive because of the highway's placement.

[iheartphilly]

^
Philly's population in the 1950's was more than it is now. I wonder if car ownership back then was lower or higher. But in any case, with that type of population, 3 or 4 lanes in each direction would of made more sense. Blasting the rocky parts to make the additional lanes and adding highway bridges should of been in the cards, but wonder if there is a documented history on whether it was even considered and if there were listed constraints.