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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2012, 4:54 PM
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GTA residents divided on best route for transit funding: poll


Oct. 08 2012

By ADRIAN MORROW and KELLY GRANT

Read More: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...medium=twitter

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Residents of Greater Toronto and Hamilton are torn about paying new fees or taxes for improvements to public transit and roads, leaving policy-makers in an uncertain political position as they struggle to deal with the region’s ever-worsening congestion. That is the conclusion of a new Toronto Board of Trade/Globe and Mail/Nanos Research poll that suggests 34 per cent are outright against paying extra to upgrade transportation, while 28 per cent are outright in favour. Others fell somewhere in between, leaving the door open for further debate.

- The poll results are being released on the same day the city of Toronto’s executive committee – a cabinet-like panel chaired by the mayor – is scheduled to tackle a new report that floats 10 different methods for raising an additional $2-billion per year to fund a massive region-wide transit expansion. In June of next year, meanwhile, Ontario transit agency Metrolinx must provide a plan outlining how it will pay for future expansions to the transportation network. And the discussion will certainly be fraught. “What [the poll] shows is that this is actually quite a divisive issue. I’m not sure if there’s really a political win when you wade into something like this because even when you look at the different regions, most of the regions are split,” said Nanos Research president Nik Nanos.

- The numbers suggest a few ways forward. If forced to pony up new cash to upgrade infrastructure, 27.1 per cent of respondents named road tolls as their first choice for revenue collection. An increase to the gasoline tax ranked second, with 15.8 per cent selecting it as their preference, followed by a hike in transit fares at 12.1 per cent. That indicated a preference for charging drivers and transit riders directly, rather than spreading the pocketbook pain around with a traditional tax hike, Mr. Nanos said. Paul Bedford, Toronto’s former chief planner, said the region is so far behind in transportation infrastructure that no single method could realistically raise enough money on its own to fix the problems. Instead, a combination of avenues will be necessary.

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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2012, 6:41 PM
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Anti-gridlock campaign: How would you spend an extra 32 minutes a day?


October 10, 2012

By Tess Kalinowski

Read More: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tran...-minutes-a-day

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Thirty-two minutes a day: it’s the equivalent of eight full days a year. That’s how much time the average Toronto area commute is expected to grow in the next 25 years if the region fails to act on a $50 billion public transit expansion plan. Now a coalition of community leaders called the Greater Toronto CivicAction Alliance has kicked off a public awareness campaign about gridlock, asking residents: “What would you do with 32?”

- The campaign comes as politicians and taxpayers are being asked to buy into the idea of regional taxes and tolls dedicated to building the transit recommended by Metrolinx in its The Big Move regional transportation plan. Failure to act will bring Toronto-area commuting times up to 109 minutes on average, as the region expands by 2.6 million people. Expand transit as the plan suggests and the average drops to 77 minutes, about the same as today. But residents are already fed up with long commutes — among the worst in North America as it is, CivicAction CEO Mitzie Hunter said Wednesday.

.....



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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2012, 1:46 PM
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2012, 9:31 PM
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Lightbulb

Could you refresh many memories why the construction under Toronto Union Station is for? Are they adding platforms, or just remodeling? At what price?
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2012, 2:15 AM
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adding capacity. They are adding a second platform to the subway stop, as well as building a new shopping concourse below the station to open up the main level to become all concourse. (currently it is a mix of stores and corridors/ waiting spaces for the trains) They will be cleaning the Bush shed, and adding a new glass canopy in the middle. price is $1 billion.
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2012, 3:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
That's crazy. I don't know what they're trying to pull but I don't like it.
I used to not support public private partnerships at all, but after seeing the success of Vancouver's Canada Line I've warmed up to the concept.

The problem in Toronto for years has been that a plan is cooked up by one government, so much time passes that another government is elected and tries to do away with the previous project. With a public-private partnership, at least the project will involve private contracts that a newly formed government can't just breach without going through intense legal battles.

Now, with that said, that isn't a "good" reason to support public private partnerships, but in Vancouver didn't the private sector pick up some of the tab and is now taking care of operational costs (i.e. the cost of employees to maintain the Canada Line) thus releasing pressure from government expenditure?

I'm very open for debate, but Vancouver's model may be a model for Toronto to follow given Toronto's utter failure at building anything new since the Scarborough RT and Sheppard Stubway. That isn't much progress for 25-30 years of planning in a booming metropolis that is quickly emerging as a new world class city.

The question is how to integrate fare collection. It needs to be an integrated, shared system where its seamless between traditional TTC routes and the Eglinton line if its going to be semi-private.
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2012, 4:17 PM
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As a Vancouverite I can tell you it is totally seemless. Frankly only transit wonks like ourselves even know the Canada Line is a PPP. It means nothing to the 100,000 already using it everday.

The partner pays for maintenance of the line but frequency is determined by Translink and not the private partner. One of the better aspects of a PPP like Canada Line is that timetables and costs are predtermined before bidding goes out and the private company agrees to pay ALL cost over runs without exception and there were VERY heavy fines if the line didn't meet it's timeline. Needless to say the Canada Line came in on budget and started service 3 months earlier than expected.

There are those who think the line was built under capacity and I am one of them. That, however, had NOTHING to do with the private partner and everything to do with Campbell who dictated the required capacity when bidding went out.

The private partner kicked in $400 million and YVR $ 300 million...........things that Toronto would never even dream about considering. There are those who state that it is poor policy to have a private partner as the kick in their amount and get a nice profit at the end which the transit users end up paying. To me that is rubbish.

Due to the Canada Line ridership has soared beyond it's immediate area to Ladner/Twassen/and especially White Rock/South Surrey. Ridership to YVR has also soared as the station lets you off 10 meters from the front door with none of this transfer to the airport people mover crap.

Translink stated it needed about 95,000 passengers per day to break even on the line and yet is already just over 100,000. Another thing that people like the anti-PPP crowd fail to talk about when considering potdential cost savings is the mere fact the line got built. PPP provides vital infrastructure dollars that loval/provincial governments simply may not have and even a 5 year delay can cost hundreds of millions in construction cost increases.
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2012, 6:32 PM
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I'm sure not all aspects of a PPP are good, the primary motivator of the private partner is eventually profit. If they can't get profit, and if ridership didn't meet demand, they would most definitely drop the operating losses on the government eventually.

But, with the success of Canada Line in Vancouver I'm opening up to PPP, precisely because Toronto is a city where people can and do use transit. I believe ridership will well surpass the projections for these lines being constructed.

Fare collection isn't an issue for Canada Line; however, the TTC and GO and an added private partner need to get their act together and offer a single unified fare collection system. Presto is pretty much the solution, but they need to complete the transformation and get rid of the old fare collection systems ASAP.

It would be nice if PRESTO was used at every bus or subway or streetcar entrance and you could use your PRESTO account to read that your card has a monthly pass pre-paid as well as individual fares.

Could you imagine using PRESTO to ride GO, deducting a specified amount, and your PRESTO card also being prepaid for unlimited TTC rides? You'd just need to add money to the card after purchasing the digital TTC pass for the rides you'd take on GO. Same card, unified interface. The future looks good if PRESTO has these capabilities.
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2012, 4:30 AM
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It would be very difficult to get a PPP for any Toronto transit infrastructure. This is not because the ridership isn't there but rather due to Toronto's MUCH higher operating costs than, for example, Vancouver. The thing that makes the Canada Line so attractive to private partners is the fact that the line is automated which saves a fortune on operating costs.

Cities that get the most interest from private incvestors are ussually either in the 3rd World where labour costs are very low or in Western cities where the line will be automated. Even if Toronto decided to make , for example, Eglinton completely grade separated the powerful TTC unions would never allow any automated train operation and would still demand someone making $40/hr be there to make sure the doors close all by themselves.

Vancouver seems to have got PPP to work well on it's mass/rapid transit sue to Translink's desire to have all it's rapid transit corridors grade separated and automated while Toronto will have neither. That doesn't mean it will be impossible to get a PPP partner but reality is that it will be more difficult due to lower returns for the private company and there are too many other cities that want that same infrastructure money that offer better returns on investment.
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2012, 4:38 AM
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All because of the union I suppose. Even if it meant additional jobs being created and not taking away from the existing transit operators.
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2012, 6:14 AM
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I don't know where the unions fit into this, but I'm just glad Eglinton LRT is finally underway and finally through all the red tape. I was surprised when they reverted the plan back to the original TC plan, but the central portion will still be underground which is a vital component. I just wished it wouldn't take 10 years to construct, it should be opened earlier than 2022.

^^It isn't any more difficult than any other city I'd imagine. PPP has already become part of the Eglinton LRT project. TTC won't be operating the line after its completion.
Source: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tran...e-eglinton-lrt
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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2012, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Brandon716 View Post
I don't know where the unions fit into this, but I'm just glad Eglinton LRT is finally underway and finally through all the red tape. I was surprised when they reverted the plan back to the original TC plan, but the central portion will still be underground which is a vital component. I just wished it wouldn't take 10 years to construct, it should be opened earlier than 2022.

^^It isn't any more difficult than any other city I'd imagine. PPP has already become part of the Eglinton LRT project. TTC won't be operating the line after its completion.
Source: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tran...e-eglinton-lrt
But Toronto is not getting a true PPP but rather just someone else to run the line. PPP ussually means that the private company also puts their own money to actually building the infrastructure in the first place. Toronto is getting non of the benefits of private money yet is handing it over to the private sector who will make money on it........lunacy.

Toronto alreeady has a line that can be automated but refuses to do it due to their unions..........the SRT. Toronto's SRT has been a complete disaster compared to how well Vancouver's SkyTrain has worked and has cost a hell of a lot more money to run and even build and maintain.

By not allowing the a system that is meant for automated operation to be automated prices have soared. This is not only due to having to pay someone $40/hr to watch the doors close but also wear and tear and train alterations. The cars breaks wore out much faster than Vancouver SkyTrain MK1 vehicles as tyhe operators tend to apply them more strongly than required. The TTC, to satify the union, also had to reconfigure all the trains so that the operaion could be done manually from the right hand side door to look out the window but the trains have the manual operation in the middle of the front area........a big expense for each car.

Even transit guru and TC supporter Steve Munro makes mention of how well Vancouver's SkyTrain system works and how Translink has made it a success while the TTC allowed the SRT to rot.

I've never been to the TTC head quarters and I'm curious..........is it 2 floors or higher? The reason I ask is that if it is it would need and elevator and surely to god the TTC and the union don't allow the elevator doors to close all by themselves? They obviously must have someone at $40/hr on each elevator to make certain the doors close............doesn't every building?
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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2012, 10:46 PM
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^I don't really know the details of the PPP involvement in Eglinton LRT. Maybe they are injecting some capital into the original construction, we just haven't heard about it yet.
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2012, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
The private partner kicked in $400 million and YVR $ 300 million...........things that Toronto would never even dream about considering. There are those who state that it is poor policy to have a private partner as the kick in their amount and get a nice profit at the end which the transit users end up paying. To me that is rubbish.
Actually, private sector contributed $750 millions, airport $300 millions, federal $450 millions, provincial $435 millions, and municipal/regional $375 millions.

In Toronto, they expect the senior governments to pay for everything and the city doesn't want to contribute a dime toward the project...
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2012, 11:06 PM
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... the city traditionally pays for 1/3 of the project. see the Spadina extension for examples.

and brandon, it has returned to a 100% public build - operate scheme. it was originally to be operated as private, and build privately with public money. (no private investment whatsoever)
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2012, 8:46 PM
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DOWNTOWN RAPID TRANSIT EXPANSION STUDY (DRTES) PHASE 1 STRATEGIC PLAN

PDF: http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Comm...apid_Trans.pdf

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.....

The study, which has been completed by a joint study team of TTC and City of Toronto staff, provides a comprehensive review of issues and options related to rapid transit services into the downtown to 2031 and beyond. The study concludes that:

• The Yonge Subway and a number of GO Rail corridors are overcrowded today;

• Both GO and TTC have plans to increase the capacity of their systems over the next 10-to-20 years, including projects such as:

- Introduction of higher-capacity Toronto Rocket trains and the implementation of Automatic Train Control on the Yonge Subway line;

- Significant increases in peak hour train service on most GO rail lines, contingent on funding availability;

• By 2031 transit ridership into the downtown is expected to grow by 51%. The planned capacity improvements will keep pace with this ridership growth in many corridors, however, the forecast growth in longer-distance trips from the north and east in particular is expected to be greater than the growth in capacity planned for these corridors;

• An extension of the Yonge Subway line to Richmond Hill would result in significant overcrowding on the Yonge subway line by 2031, even with the currently-planned capacity improvements in place;

• The construction of an initial phase of a “Downtown Relief Line” on the east side of the downtown would address these capacity concerns for the foreseeable future. Such a project would cost in the order of $3.2 billion to complete;

• There may be other means to relieve the forecast overcrowding on the Yonge line, and overcrowding on the GO Rail corridors in the east by increasing the attractiveness and capacity of local rapid transit services in existing rail corridors. A full assessment of these options was beyond the scope of the current study;

• TTC and City staff are proceeding with Phase 2 of the Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study to determine a preferred alignment, technology, station locations and property protection requirements for the first phase of a relief line from the east connecting the Danforth Subway with the downtown;

• TTC, City, and Metrolinx staff are continuing to work collaboratively on options to address the rapid transit capacity issues identified in the report;

.....

Four phases of the DRL infrastructure alternative, involving a subway-like transit service operating in a tunnel, were considered to serve the downtown area:

• DRL 1 – East only via King (St. Andrew to Pape Station)

• DRL 2A – East and West via King (Dundas West to Pape Station)

• DRL 2B – East only with a northerly extension (St. Andrew to Eglinton and Don Mills)

• DRL 3 – East and West with a northerly extension in the east (Dundas West to Eglinton and Don Mills)

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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2012, 8:53 PM
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Hudak’s agenda revives Toronto subway debate


Oct. 17 2012

By ELIZABETH CHURCH

Read More: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4617529/

Quote:
As Ontario’s governing Liberals started searching for a new leader, Progressive Conservative chief Tim Hudak arrived at City Hall with a campaign-style transit-funding agenda that could reopen the debate over building a Scarborough subway.

- “Where funds are available, a PC government will build underground,” Mr. Hudak said, making it clear that would include redirecting some of the $8.4-billion now earmarked for a network of light-rail lines, the former Transit City plan. It’s a pledge with the potential to ignite an issue most considered settled earlier this year when Mayor Rob Ford lost his case for subways during a dramatic council vote. But just as the city is about to sign a final agreement with the province on its light-rail plan, signs are growing that the debate is far from over.

- “A Scarborough subway has to be back on the table,” said Scarborough councillor Glenn De Baeremaeker, the TTC vice-chair and a long-time supporter of the light rail plan. Mr. De Baeremaeker dismissed Mr. Hudak’s promise to redirect the $8.4-billion in transit funding to subways, but said any new funds should go to replacing the aging Scarborough rapid transit line with a subway rather than light rail as planned. That option was part of the One City plan Mr. De Baeremaeker and TTC chair Karen Stintz put forward this summer. While council rejected that plan, Mr. De Baeremaeker wants to put his Scarborough subway option back on the table next summer when council considers the staff report on transit funding. The cost of moving from light rail to subways, he estimates, is about $500-million.

- Asked whether he would halt work on Sheppard and Finch Avenues, Mr. Hudak said that would depend on the timing of the next election. “I’m clear-eyed and practical about this,” he said. “I’m going to leave the door open if there are dollars on the table and it is feasible to put money underground.” But Councillor Doug Ford said Mr. Hudak’s promise means Scarborough residents can once again start thinking about subways. He also held out hope that the debate could be reopened at City Hall, saying some councillors who supported light rail are now “born-again subway believers.” “It’s time to build subways, not antiquated streetcars,” Mr. Ford said. “It’s time for the people of Scarborough to be heard.”

.....



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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2012, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
... the city traditionally pays for 1/3 of the project. see the Spadina extension for examples.

and brandon, it has returned to a 100% public build - operate scheme. it was originally to be operated as private, and build privately with public money. (no private investment whatsoever)
Hmm, will there ever be a solid plan to stick, it'll just be changed in a few months so it doesn't matter anymore. LOL
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  #39  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2012, 11:55 PM
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  #40  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2012, 5:35 AM
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A brief quote on Mayor Ford’s anti-streetcar radio promo is up on Systemic Failure. Money quote:

Quote:
The promo Ford recorded for the radio station, which also carries his weekly Sunday radio show, has been played around half a dozen times in the last few months during the Jim Richards Show, according to Newstalk 1010 officials.

“Hi, I’m Rob Ford, that traffic report would have been a lot better without streetcars,” Ford says in the promo.
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