Thread of Shibbolleths

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

My Aussie friend recently told me how he was jealous towards my Canadian identity in Japan, and how as an Australian he has nothing special to share at international events (often involving food) yet as a Canadian I always had super iconic food items as Maple syrup, smoked salmon, and poutine. Seems to me he is exactly like the last page of posters here, just from Australia instead of Canada.

.

Australia has way more iconic national stuff than Canada, including in terms of food: bush tucker, vegemite, damper, shrimp on the barbies, leamingtons, pavlova, meat pies at AFL games, Moreton Bay bugs, kangaroo meat, etc. This is just off the top of my head.

BTW, two of the three things you mentioned about Canada are from Quebec, which is of course part of Canada, but not sure if they count "points" in this discussion.

Canada (outside of Quebec) does have some *potentially* iconic foods as well, like the oft-cited (on SSP anyway) peameal bacon sandwich I suppose.

But a point people seem to be missing is that in order for something to become iconic and spread beyond your borders, it has to initially have significant buy-in and take-up from the people it originated with.

This applies to food as much as it does to movies, etc.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I think I may have shared this story before, but I was getting on an elevator at a hotel in Copenhagen and started entering before noticing someone else getting off. She apologized to me as I got out of her way. I thought it was kind of strange, since I had been the one to break social convention, and thought it would be funny if she was Canadian. We ended up striking up a conversation later on in another situation entirely and I discovered that, although she now lives in the US, she was born and raised in Alberta. It's a small thing, but there are subtle identifiable traits.

I couldn't tell the difference between someone from Portugal and Spain, or Holland and Denmark, or Germany and Austria without first talking to them and getting to know them better. I don't see how that reflects on the legitimacy of their distinct cultures. I suspect that since Canadians are obsessed with comparing ourselves to the US (and inevitably finding ourselves superior) that some contrarians go to the other extreme and claim that there is no difference at all, which is equally silly, or worse, that we're just poor imitators, which makes no sense at all. The fact that francophones have an immediately identifiable trait that sets them apart makes these ridiculous claims about English Canada all the more easy to make, so obviously the differences between English Canada and the US are not going to be remotely as stark as across the language divide.

Good post. I just wanted to point out regarding the last sentence that this latest SSP Canada foray on the topic was not triggered by a francophone, nor a poster from Quebec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Some of the posts here have brought up another matter which I have never understood. And yep... it relates to provincial economies and, in particular, literally hundreds of young Québécois coming to the Okanagan Valley every summer to pick fruit in the orchards - apparently since the late 1960's.

Have the Québécois posters on here ever heard of same? I have always been curious as to why young Québécois would travel soooo far west to the southern Okanagan Valley to pick fruit every summer... as it is quite a long haul. The orchards in the Niagara region are a helluva lot closer.

I personally have seen many over the years in Osoyoos, Oliver, and Penticton in the southern Okanagan Valley. Apparently some locals also have come into conflict with same over the years... for whatever reason.

In any event, again, have Québécois posters on here ever heard of same and can provide some insight? Frankly, over the years, have never understood same myself. Perhaps just looking for adventure afar? It is just kinda unique IMHO:

http://www.decouvertemonde.com/fruit...ouest-canadien

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...kers-1.1306603

I think it's an adventure and learning thing without having the hassle of passports and visas. Places like Whistler and Banff are also destinations for this temporary annual migration of Québécois youth.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Australia has way more iconic national stuff than Canada, including in terms of food: bush tucker, vegemite, damper, shrimp on the barbies, leamingtons, pavlova, meat pies at AFL games, Moreton Bay bugs, kangaroo meat, etc. This is just off the top of my head.

BTW, two of the three things you mentioned about Canada are from Quebec, which is of course part of Canada, but not sure if they count "points" in this discussion.

Canada (outside of Quebec) does have some *potentially* iconic foods as well, like the oft-cited (on SSP anyway) peameal bacon sandwich I suppose.

But a point people seem to be missing is that in order for something to become iconic and spread beyond your borders, it has to initially have significant buy-in and take-up from the people it originated with.

This applies to food as much as it does to movies, etc.

Tell that to him, not me I just find it funny that from his viewpoint, its the reverse.

Grass is greener.

Also, I see Maple Syrup more as a north-eastern NA thing (though Canada does have the world's largest production) than a strictly French Canadian thing (such a poutine).

And at this point it sure has oozed its way throughout Canadian diets / culture.

But I start to find this stuff as annoying as those regions fighting over being the originators of the hamburger in the US.

BTW,a friend of mine just returned to Japan from Toronto bearing gifts, wonderful gifts, bags of Coffee Crisp. Let me just say, they were a smash hit at the welcome back party. My newly wed Japanese wife loves them and always asks my family to send them. I always wondered why an export has not occurred regarding them, i have never met a foreigner that didn't like them.

[Laceoflight]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Some of the posts here have brought up another matter which I have never understood. And yep... it relates to provincial economies and, in particular, literally hundreds of young Québécois coming to the Okanagan Valley every summer to pick fruit in the orchards - apparently since the late 1960's.

Have the Québécois posters on here ever heard of same? I have always been curious as to why young Québécois would travel soooo far west to the southern Okanagan Valley to pick fruit every summer... as it is quite a long haul. The orchards in the Niagara region are a helluva lot closer.

I personally have seen many over the years in Osoyoos, Oliver, and Penticton in the southern Okanagan Valley. Apparently some locals also have come into conflict with same over the years... for whatever reason.

In any event, again, have Québécois posters on here ever heard of same and can provide some insight? Frankly, over the years, have never understood same myself. Perhaps just looking for adventure afar? It is just kinda unique IMHO:

http://www.decouvertemonde.com/fruit...ouest-canadien

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...kers-1.1306603

Picking fruits and planting trees are the most common activities that young Québécois seek for in the Rockies and the Okanagan. The myth of the Great West is strong and alive amongst Québec's youth, and is kind of transmitted from generation to generation. And the hippie movement is still well alive amongst the youth too. Lots of young people reaching 16-18 years old see the West as an opportunity for adventure and emancipation. It's the great adventure. They often hitch-hike, with only a backpack, to the West. The hitch-hiking or road trip to Gaspésie is still pretty popular too. I assume that everyone in Québec knows someone that did fruit picking in the West at some point. At least 5 of my friends did it when they were teens. My brother in law and sister in law, in their mid-20s, are heading there right now for the 6th season in a row. One of my friends in her early 30s will be there planting trees as soon as May 1. And one of my cousins in his 30s simply never came back and settled in the Okanagan. And so on...

[north 42]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

I love it when people try to project their depressed existence onto an entire nation.

Exactly! He does this quite often, unfortunately.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Tell that to him, not me I just find it funny that from his viewpoint, its the reverse.

Grass is greener.

Also, I see Maple Syrup more as a north-eastern NA thing (though Canada does have the world's largest production) than a strictly French Canadian thing (such a poutine).

And at this point it sure has oozed its way throughout Canadian diets / culture.

But I start to find this stuff as annoying as those regions fighting over being the originators of the hamburger in the US.

BTW,a friend of mine just returned to Japan from Toronto bearing gifts, wonderful gifts, bags of Coffee Crisp. Let me just say, they were a smash hit at the welcome back party. My newly wed Japanese wife loves them and always asks my family to send them. I always wondered why an export has not occurred regarding them, i have never met a foreigner that didn't like them.

A First Nations' thing, surely.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

This definitely true. Even I, as a Canadian, assume "American" when I hear someone speaking like I do. It's a numbers thing and I'm almost always right.

Sometimes you will encounter someone who, upon learning that you're Canadian, will draw on some "they don't like it when you think that"-type knowledge and apologize in an exaggerated way. Then I have to reassure them, also in an exaggerated way, that it's not a problem, that we know we sound the same and use the same expressions, that I have no problem with it – all in the effort to not be "one of those Canadians".

Al lot of my being Canadian involves efforts not to be one of those Canadians. Compared to meeting Anglo Canadians, Americans honestly provide 90% of the reminds-me-of-home goodness with none of the risks involving Quebec talk, Canada-is-better-than-America talk or anything like that. I honestly find a lot of our "national conversation" to be night-ruining.

I've had a few foreigners ''guess'' and ask me if I was Canadian. After I got to know them better, they admitted that they ask anyone who sounds neutral American (eg not having a thick southern US accent) if they're Canadian. Because Canadians get pissed off if you mistake them for Americans, whereas Americans don't care if they get mistaken for Canadians, and usually laugh it off.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Also, I see Maple Syrup more as a north-eastern NA thing (though Canada does have the world's largest production) than a strictly French Canadian thing (such a poutine).

And at this point it sure has oozed its way throughout Canadian diets / culture.

.

I'd agree if it was as widespread as poutine is, but I find maple syrup culture has only been superficially adopted. Most people outside Quebec and a few places in, say, Eastern Ontario, don't partake in the entire sugar shack cuisine and stuff like sugar pie, oreilles de crisse, ketchup aux fruits, etc. is not well-known to the average person whereas it's classic and iconic in areas which have large numbers of French Canadians.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

A First Nations' thing, surely.

Initially yes. But it's really French Canadians who took the lead from aboriginals and ran with it.

It's impossible to dissociate maple syrup cuisine and culture from French Canadians these days.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd agree if it was as widespread as poutine is, but I find maple syrup culture has only been superficially adopted. Most people outside Quebec and a few places in, say, Eastern Ontario, don't partake in the entire sugar shack cuisine and stuff like sugar pie, oreilles de crisse, ketchup aux fruits, etc. is not well-known to the average person whereas it's classic and iconic in areas which have large numbers of French Canadians.

I think the 60,000+ people who attended the Elmira Maple Syrup Festival on Saturday might disagree. Although it's true that they would not have experienced the joys of sugar pie.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Initially yes. But it's really French Canadians who took the lead from aboriginals and ran with it.

It's impossible to dissociate maple syrup cuisine and culture from French Canadians these days.

Tsk, tsk. Cultural appropriation!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Tsk, tsk. Cultural appropriation!

Indeed it is.

Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't.

Now, is poutine a ''Toronto classic", as I've heard some Americans say?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I think the 60,000+ people who attended the Elmira Maple Syrup Festival on Saturday might disagree. Although it's true that they would not have experienced the joys of sugar pie.

If they had it might lend more credence to Metro-One's claim that maple syrup culture has become a widely-shared cross-Canada thing.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Indeed it is.

Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't.

Now, is poutine a ''Toronto classic", as I've heard some Americans say?

If you gauge it by how it has become an (inexplicable) obsession, perhaps it's legit. Personally, I remain convinced that "poutine" is Canadian French for "slop". In any event, Peruvians have always done it better!

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If they had it might lend more credence to Metro-One's claim that maple syrup has become a widely-shared cross-Canada thing.

Here it's about the syrup, toffee, and maple sugar, along with maple butter and of course maple baked beans. The closest we get to sugar pie would be it's little cousin, maple butter tarts.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Here it's about the syrup, toffee, and maple sugar, along with maple butter and of course maple baked beans. The closest we get to sugar pie would be it's little cousin, maple butter tarts.

And pancakes so it seems.

It's kind of astonishing than in 50 plus years no one in Elmira has thought of introducing sugar pie, etc. into the mix.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And pancakes so it seems.

It's kind of astonishing than in 50 plus years no one in Elmira has thought of introducing sugar pie, etc. into the mix.

Absolutely, the pancakes. Re pie, don't forget that, locally at least, we have shoo-fly pie courtesy of our Mennonite friends. How many sugar-induced comas is one community expected to absorb!

[Metro-One]

Do you need the pie? In Vancouver we have maple smoked salmon. amazingly delicious, if you have never had it before, then you are missing out.

Maple fudge is big in BC as well, and yes, maple tarts are awesome.

I grew up having maple on nearly every breakfast, and who can forget maple Shreddies!

So maybe it is not the only what Quebec does with maple ingredients is the be all and end all, but that there are varying uses for the ingredient across Canada.

Again, eat maple smoked salmon.

Also, the festival aspect I suspect is highly tied to production centres.

The same way that fruit growing and wine growing regions are the hub for their product festivals (such as the Okanagan in BC), but that doesn't mean that other areas within a larger cultural group (through borders / languages / etc...) cannot still be highly influenced by those products / and become ingrained into their culture as well.

[Acajack]

I have relatives who live in a village at the eastern edge of Ottawa's city limits called Cumberland. (Actually part of Ottawa since the merger.)

They have an annual maple "festival" at this community building in the middle of the village called Maple Hall which I've been to a few times.

Cumberland has a third or more of its population that are francophones but the maple festival there is decidedly different in food and even atmosphere from sugar shacks just across the river in Quebec. Cumberland actually has a ferry to Masson, Quebec. It's only five minutes across.

Quite interesting. For people like me anyway.