Red Hill Creek Expressway

[Jon Dalton]

Try living on King St. and trying to get to sleep at night. Then you will notice how many trucks there are.

[SteelTown]

The funniest moment had to be when Paul Wilson from the Spec was doing a video special and was standing at Main/John St and this double loaded truck whips by behind him, loud and banging away. This was during BC Ted debate about trucks on Main St. Friggin hilarious.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

The funniest moment had to be when Paul Wilson from the Spec was doing a video special and was standing at Main/John St and this double loaded truck whips by behind him, loud and banging away. This was during BC Ted debate about trucks on Main St. Friggin hilarious.

hahaha And then he said someone "photoshopped" it in! hahaha

And ya, it's true... the damage is done. No sense of continuing the "to build or not to build" debate. I'm just very upset that it was.

And ya, Warrior, I know TOO well how crappy HSR service is up there. I grew up in the Upper Creek, and had to walk up Mt Albion (no sidewalks) many times just to get home. Now it's going to be even more inconvenient once they shut down the access.
But that's (primarily) why I moved downtown: convenient public transit access. It's just unfortunate that most people up there take the alternative route and buy a car rather than relocate. But those people also have to pay for cabs when they're downtown partying I walk home for free!! haha

upper SC is already going thru a huge commercial boom, and I have actually heard that the new development at Paramount/Winterberry area will actually have retail mixed with med-density apt bldgs. I'm (unsuccessfully) trying to find the plans online... anyone have a copy?

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by DC83

hahaha And then he said someone "photoshopped" it in! hahaha

I knew he was kidding around but oh that was damn funny. Everybody is going around saying "see! see! prove!" and he goes "photoshopped!" haha

[the dude]

Originally Posted by flar

This road will change Upper Stoney Cr. East Hamilton and the East Mountain. There will be tons of development, ablbeit not the kind most of us on this board like. The thing to do now is push for more enlightened development at the southern terminus of RHVP.

It will make some residential areas of East Hamilton more attractive. Ask the average person and they like living close to highway access. The only reason Lowes and the Centre Mall redevelopment are happening is really because of the highway. These places also locate near highway access because that's how they can increase their potential customer base.

This highway makes it easier to commute to Burlington, Oakville and Mississauga (TO is still too far). Many Hamiltonians work in these places, because industries and offices located along the QEW and 403, instead of Hamilton, because they like to be located along highways. Many companies moved from Hamilton to these locations.

Now Hamilton has more land with highway access and I see no reason why industries will not locate within Hamilton now. Manufacturing especially relies on just in time delivery, which means trucks, and shipping costs are reduced when the trucks can easily access the industries along highways.

This is the reality, it's like this everywhere. While I don't believe this is an excuse to pave over a big valley, that damage is now done. It is essential for the long term health of Hamilton that we attract more employment. The city will never realize its potential with so much poverty and underemployment. With anything, there is a hierarchy of needs, and the basic need of many Hamiltonians is a decent job.

The net effect of the highway is likely to be positive: fewer trucks on city streets, more jobs, increasing real estate values in east Hamilton (which increases the equity and spending power of those residents), increasing population, higher tax base for the city, more construction, more disposable income, etc. All these things make Hamilton's economic picture look better, and this is all that is important to banks and investors, who may one day even loan money to people for downtown projects.

the elephant in the room that no one's talking about is the price of oil. we're fast approaching $100/barrel and that price will soon reflect itself in the price of gas. the cheap oil age is over, at least that's what experts in the fields of geology, physics and finance are saying. but what do i know? if we're facing a future where driving will be less and less feasible, then this highway will be a massive bust. we may see some short term success in the area warehousing and other shit employers like maple leaf but that's likely to be it. it's also unlikely to alleviate poverty in hamilton. how will the poor of the lower city get to these new jobs on the periphery of town? i think this highway will continue the perpetuation of hamilton as a dirty, stinking industrial city. and in our so-called post-industrial world, that's bad for the economy.

[raisethehammer]

oh, don't worry about it... just tune into CNN...everything's fine. Keep buying SUV's. keep moving into the middle of nowhere. it'll all work out....

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

I knew he was kidding around but oh that was damn funny. Everybody is going around saying "see! see! prove!" and he goes "photoshopped!" haha

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by the dude

the elephant in the room that no one's talking about is the price of oil. we're fast approaching $100/barrel and that price will soon reflect itself in the price of gas. the cheap oil age is over, at least that's what experts in the fields of geology, physics and finance are saying. but what do i know? if we're facing a future where driving will be less and less feasible, then this highway will be a massive bust. we may see some short term success in the area warehousing and other shit employers like maple leaf but that's likely to be it. it's also unlikely to alleviate poverty in hamilton. how will the poor of the lower city get to these new jobs on the periphery of town? i think this highway will continue the perpetuation of hamilton as a dirty, stinking industrial city. and in our so-called post-industrial world, that's bad for the economy.

Cars are not going away anytime soon.

[the dude]

talk to me in 5 years. actually, don't.

[raisethehammer]

cars will still be around, but will begin to become more used among wealthy folks...or those willing to really bring on the debt load for their regular fill-up.
transit can snag some of these people as casual/part time riders to offset the increase.

[matt602]

wow this expressway is getting so much hate. it really is quite ridiculous considering how small it is. hell, main street has more lanes in it than most portions of this thing.

[HAMRetrofit]

Cars will become more fuel efficient and alternative fuels will be used. They they will still be around long into the future and will adapt to market conditions. This is the reality. Highways will continue to be built and widened in the future.

The argument for more public transit and better urban design based on energy depletion is wishful thinking propigated by the gloom and doom theories of 'new urbanists'.

For a meaningful argument for these things start talking about quality of life, civic amenities, city economics, environmental damage, global warming, and all those other fun things. Societal changes of value will be the only thing that changes anything.

[the dude]

alternative fuels...care to elaborate?

[raisethehammer]

yes, I'm interested in this too....most alternative fuels are energy intensive and the ones that are useful are being developed about 50 years too late.
FYI - the average US car is LESS efficient today than it was in the 1980's or 70's. we're going the wrong way.

And for the record, I HATE MAIN STREET way more than Red Hill. Now that we've built our last highway, let's get onto a multi-million dollar LRT baby!

[HAMRetrofit]

My point was that if people still value driving and living in large homes in suburbia economies of scale will make it possible in new ways. There are billions of dollars in research and innovation occuring ready to make this possible.

I am an urbanist, but I realize nothing is going to change unless real action is taken to provide more desirable living arrangments in cities otherwise people will continue to demand what is already available. This is the reason that I feel that this depletion of energy agenda is counter productive. There are far better arguments to be made than fossil fuel depletion for sustainable development. Its not that I don't think that it is an issue but there are more pressing things in the world with more obvious threats. IMO

[DC83]

Originally Posted by the dude

alternative fuels...care to elaborate?

I think every oil company is at least looking into ethanol fuel. There's also Hydrogen... that's all I know for now.

Saskatchewan wants to be the next boom province, so they're really hoping ethanol fuel research speeds up. Imagine their endless fields of corn... they could supply half the world with it's fuel!

Hamilton and Ontario could also cash in on this... of course this is only if the Province wants to actually stand behind it's Greenbelt "legislation".

[flar]

The problem with ethanol is it takes a lot of energy to make it (farmers need fuel for tractors and combines,etc..) so hopefully it won't be the fuel of the future.
A completely different type of engine needs to be developed, and hopefully will. The combustion engine has run its course. Look at the fancy technology around us, yet our cars are dirty, oily smelly machines belching out smoke, and they break all the time.

[raisethehammer]

much like suburban sprawl, ethanol is almost impossible to produce without massive subsidies.
Furthermore, poor folks around the world may be forced to starve so we can fill up our cars:

http://www.mexidata.info/id1243.html

[raisethehammer]

I notice the Spec is doing this timeline of Red Hill history lately.
I'm guessing they won't dwell on this time period:

Start at the bottom and read up.
I'd like to get more info as to why the province was so intent on this highway being built? Sounds like the city was going to go ahead with the east/west route, but not Red Hill.
Also, it could have been MUCH worse...check out the plans for 5 new expressways across Hamilton.


June 1979 - Region releases six possible alternative routes for north-south expressway. All six go through the Red Hill Valley. Nine other alternatives, including three other north-south locations were eliminated internally without public input.

1978 - Region begins study of potential locations for East-West and North-South expressways. General Manager of the Hamilton Region Conservation Authority resigns from the committee in protest.

1977 - Council votes to allow Red Hill Valley location to be considered after provincial government withdraws funding subsidy for land acquisition for the East-West expressway.

1975-1977 - Continuous pressure from provincial Conservative government to reinstate valley route for north-south expressway. Three additional votes by Council confirm 1974 decision, but by decreasing majorities.

1974 - Hamilton City Council and the newly-formed Regional Council vote unanimously to "to retain the natural character of the Red Hill Creek Valley and to maintain permanently its present natural state". Motion adopted to remove valley expressway from the Official Plan. East-West expressway retained.

1973 - Clear Hamilton of Pollution (CHOP) and City of Hamilton jointly sponsor public walk in the Red Hill Valley. Politicians who participate (including Bob Morrow) state opposition to expressway plans.

1972 - CHOP organizes environmental inventory of natural areas in Hamilton.

1971 - Spadina Expressway cancelled.

1964 - Council adopts recommendations of Hamilton Area Transportation Study (1963) for five new expressways in Hamilton including Red Hill Expressway (east of the valley) and Highway 53 Freeway (cross-mountain). Others are a Stoney Creek Expressway, an "East-West Expressway" through lower Hamilton, and a "North-South Expressway" across the escarpment in central Hamilton.

1956 - Consultant company proposes "Red Hill Expressway" to run from King Street to QEW along valley. Plan is supported by City Council but dropped in 1958.

1947 - Hamilton's first Official Plan recommends purchase of remaining portion of Red Hill Valley as an eastern greenspace buffer. These purchases are completed in the 1950-51 by the Hamilton Board of Park Management.

1929 - City of Hamilton purchases southern half of Red Hill Valley (King's Forest Park) at the urging of Thomas B. McQuesten, a member of the Parks Board. McQuesten is eventually credited as the father of the Royal Botanical Gardens, the father of the Niagara Parks system and the father of the QEW (built while he was Minister of Tranport in the provincial cabinet).

[raisethehammer]

Thomas B. McQueston wouldn't be enjoying this today...