noirish Los Angeles

[MichaelRyerson]

Originally Posted by Ed Workman

I believe you are correct as to direction of view, but that puts the LAP terminus and the Hill ST stations and the site of the Subway Terminal out of the view, to the right, due south and southwest

Hi Ed and thanks for the input. But I think I've got it about right. This is Olive Street right in front of the camera, the photographer is on Almira Hershey's property at 4th and Grand Avenue. The Los Angeles Pacific Railway building was at 435 S. Hill Street and as Hill Street runs parallel to and east of Olive, that puts it someplace in front of the camera not out of view to the right and certainly not due south. The Subway building, as I noted, has not been built yet, it will go in in 1925. What we have down there in that opening is an open air terminal and boarding area for the surface cars of the LAPRy. These three images may help with the perspective...


First our initial image of the intersection in about 1910...


Looking southeast from the Mira Hershey property at 4th Street and Grand Avenue, ca.1910


Please notice the angle by which we're looking at the Fremont.


And now in 1925 from down below...

Looking west from Hill Street as the subway tunnel and building goes in, 1925

Great image of the construction site as the PE Hill Street Station is converted to a massive building and entrance to a subway tunnel which will cross Bunker Hill to Toluca Yard (1st/2nd/Beverly Boulevard/Glendale Boulevard). Here they have breached the Olive Street roadbed and spanned the vacated Olive Street School/Health Department property. The Trenton (on the left) and the Fremont (on the right) look on nervously. The Leonard Rose Mansion at 4th Street and Grand Avenue can be seen behind the Fremont. Nice image of actual steam shovels at work.

LAPL




And finally, here's a shot of the Hill Street terminal prior to the subway going in and prior to the first subway building going in on the south side of the open air railhead. (you'll notice the Fremont back there, we're looking northwest in this shot)


Pacific Electric Hill Street Station, 1922


Looking northwest across Hill Street with the Pacific Electric Station on the left and the boarding platforms to the right. Wright & Callender Building at SW 4th and Hill Streets on the right and the Fremont with the peaked turrets center back.

LAPL

[tovangar2]

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge

Charles Forman, known as the founder of Toluca Lake, moved from Virginia City, Nevada, to Los Angeles in 1882.

Thank you for the wonderful story of the Forman's deconstructed/reconstructed, and finally demolished, house.

And yes, there really is a Toluca Lake in Toluca Lake, but because the shoreline is entirely private, and well hidden, few have ever seen it. I've only ever viewed it via google maps:

google maps


The owners pay for the water to keep it topped up.

[HossC]

This Julius Shulman photoset appears to contain pictures of at least three different locations. I've just picked out three of the building named in the title. It's "Job 5438: Darrell Howe, United Community Church (Glendale, Calif.), 1977".



A look under the arches.



Going by the octagonal shape, this must be the interior. I wish there was a color version of this one.



All from Getty Research Institute

The United Community Church still stands at 333 E Colorado Street, Glendale. From the outside I can't see many changes.


GSV

[tovangar2]

Originally Posted by BifRayRock

... however, it was easy to be sidetracked by the 419 Fairfax address, which as you know is now Canter's central. Although NLA'ers know the location's history as once the Esquire theater (occupancy cert issued March, 1937) most are probably unaware that the structure evidently began as a market in '31.

Amazingly enough, the architect for the 1931 market was Robert V Derrah (Crossroads of the World, Coca-Cola Building). The much remodeled building has been Canter's since 1953

[Ed Workman]

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson

Hi Ed and thanks for the input. But I think I've got it about right. This is Olive Street right in front of the camera, the photographer is on Almira Hershey's property at 4th and Grand Avenue. The Los Angeles Pacific Railway building was at 435 S. Hill Street and as Hill Street runs parallel to and east of Olive, that puts it someplace in front of the camera not out of view to the right and certainly not due south. The Subway building, as I noted, has not been built yet, it will go in in 1925. What we have down there in that opening is an open air terminal and boarding area for the surface cars of the LAPRy. These three images may help with the perspective...


First our initial image of the intersection in about 1910...


Looking southeast from the Mira Hershey property at 4th Street and Grand Avenue, ca.1910


Please notice the angle by which we're looking at the Fremont.


And now in 1925 from down below...

Looking west from Hill Street as the subway tunnel and building goes in, 1925

Great image of the construction site as the PE Hill Street Station is converted to a massive building and entrance to a subway tunnel which will cross Bunker Hill to Toluca Yard (1st/2nd/Beverly Boulevard/Glendale Boulevard). Here they have breached the Olive Street roadbed and spanned the vacated Olive Street School/Health Department property. The Trenton (on the left) and the Fremont (on the right) look on nervously. The Leonard Rose Mansion at 4th Street and Grand Avenue can be seen behind the Fremont. Nice image of actual steam shovels at work.

LAPL




And finally, here's a shot of the Hill Street terminal prior to the subway going in and prior to the first subway building going in on the south side of the open air railhead. (you'll notice the Fremont back there, we're looking northwest in this shot)


Pacific Electric Hill Street Station, 1922


Looking northwest across Hill Street with the Pacific Electric Station on the left and the boarding platforms to the right. Wright & Callender Building at SW 4th and Hill Streets on the right and the Fremont with the peaked turrets center back.

LAPL

Well you have me confused
If that's Olive , okay, but what's the cross street?
I interpreted your message as that being 4th
And where is the Masonic Bldg- not yet built?.
It was on the west side of Hill St Station, several stories right on the property line
regards
Ed Hmmmm I wonder if I have my compass rotated 90

[MichaelRyerson]

Originally Posted by Ed Workman

Well you have me confused
If that's Olive , okay, but what's the cross street?
I interpreted your message as that being 4th
And where is the Masonic Bldg- not yet built?.
It was on the west side of Hill St Station, several stories right on the property line
regards
Ed Hmmmm I wonder if I have my compass rotated 90

Yes, we're looking southeast across Olive and 4th Streets and I believe the Masonic building you're looking for is the building with all the advertising on it that I've identified as being the PE building which technically it is. On Baist maps of the period, this building is shown as being the offices for the PE and the PE Club Building but it is in fact also the Masonic building at the same time. Here's a shot of it in about 1920...


P.E. Hill Street Station, ca.1920

Next door to the Masonic Temple built in 1896. The P.E. Hill Street Station served an outdoor railhead which sat just out of frame to the right. Large building directly behind the Masonic Lodge is the Trenton on Olive.

USC digital archive/Title Insurance and Trust, and C.C. Pierce Photography Collection, 1860-1960

As you can see it is south of the PE terminal, rather than west.

[HossC]

I've stitched together two plates of the 1921 Baist map to try and show the layout of the various buildings mentioned.


www.historicmapworks.com/www.historicmapworks.com

[ethereal_reality]

Originally Posted by HossC

The "massive neo-classical building in the background" is the old Fifth Church of Christ, Scientist building at 7107 Hollywood Boulevard. The view below is from 1952.


Historic Aerials

Here's a better view of the church. According to the caption, it was re-designed by Howard Elwell in 1959 to create the current building.


LAPL

More recently, 7107 was known as the Mosaic Church. Joe Vogel mentioned that the church was on an endangered list in post #20174. You can read a 2015 LAT article about the site's possible redevelopment here.

Hoss, thanks for figuring this out the which church was in the mystery pic.

Here's the church today.


https://horizonskyline.files.wordpre...saic-front.jpg


Are we Howard Elwell didn't tear it down and start over?


google_earth

__

[BifRayRock]

1963 Universal Studios - Universal City



Establishing shot
1
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/802b28d9328cbc95_large





2
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/fe6fa3ecdc54ad97_large





3
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/a13676ba9b638dc0_large




4
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/87869896d2ca8db7_large




5
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/3a3ba0e82b17c5f1_large




"PT 73?"

6
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/33361bae516f12a0_large




7
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/d613a8dd0b1bea6f_large




8
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/1ad3f93327216219_large







9
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7ee308d6ae432881_large




10
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/2271c73072e1afab_large




11
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/ec66001ead6fbd4d_large





12
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/d1eefb1070844138_large




Mockingbird Lane and then some.
13
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/3df85d7808914248_large



"Shoot all the bluejays you want, if you can hit 'em, but remember it's a sin to kill a mockingbird."
14
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/32f44b25296f2fe1_large



"I am sorry Miss Day, Mr. WigWag has left strict instructions that he and Mr. Wasserman are not to be disturbed. No exceptions."
15
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/6894c0b0897560a9_large[/IMG]


It's like you're always stuck in second gear?

Angie D. and friends.
16
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/c0554ac8612629ce_large



Star Power. Police Woman in the making.

17
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/d7a7df1f6c1e7004_large





18
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/01e234762001142c_large






Universal/MCA's answer to Gay's Lion Farm
19
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/9e5150cd39ac533b_large




Every body is going on report.

Captain Binghamton dines with his out-of-uniform subordinates and Fuji.
20.
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/e00ef71adddda45d_large



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...e%27s_Navy.jpg


21
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/0cb33054fff1f620_large




Goodnight Gruber.

Goodnight Tinker.

Goodnight WigWag.



22
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/883245b0382c10f0_large

[HossC]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

Are we Howard Elwell didn't tear it down and start over?


google_earth

The LAPL descriptions for pictures of the old church all say something like "This church was not demolished but re-designed by Howard Elwell in 1959 to create the church seen in images 00072772 and 00072773." On the other hand, a PDF document at planning.lacity.org says "The original church at the subject property was built in 1916 in the Neoclassical style and was demolished in 1959. In 1959 the extant church was built to accommodate a growing congregation."

Looking at the footprint of the original church, there can't have been much of it left if it was re-designed.

[ethereal_reality]

Here's an image from 1977 with 'Fifth Church of Christ Scientist' still on the facade.


https://horizonskyline.files.wordpre...cientist-1.jpg

[GaylordWilshire]

Looks like all that was left of the old building was part of the basement...





And the 1916 BP:

[tovangar2]

As well as the 1916 Fifth Church of Christ Scientist, 7107 Hollywood Blvd, Frank Meline did 5540 Hollywood Blvd in 1921:

Originally Posted by tovangar2

gsv

And also the glamorous and notorious Garden Court Apartments (1917-1984), 7021 Hollywood Blvd:

wiki

Colorized:

ladailymirror

Many Frank Meline residences are still standing. This 1917 example, relentlessly maintained at 5137 Franklin, is two doors west of Lloyd Wright's Sowden House:

gsv

Meline's 1922 Ruskin Art Club building, 800 S Plymouth, now a private home, is much more subdued and, like many of Meline's buildings, makes charming use of Batchelder tile:

lacurbed


Some fascinating info on Frank Meline. He was a big deal in his day, now all but forgotten: https://homesteadmuseum.wordpress.co...est-july-1926/

[ethereal_reality]

When I first saw this photograph a week or so ago on ebay, the noirishly titled 'Big DIME Cafe' immediately caught my eye. (there's a 'Servicemen Welcome' sign above the door)

1950


It was only later that I noticed the 'Follies Village' on the other end of the building.


A few years back I found a matchbook from the 'Follies Village', and tovanger2 did an excellent post on it's location in the old Morgan Building. (on Main St.)

Here's tovangar2's original post chock-full of information.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=31003



t2 included this insurance map showing it was next door to the famous (infamous?) Follies Theater.




But I don't believe we ever found a photograph of the 'Follies Village' in situ. (UNTIL NOW!)


__

[ScottyB]

Originally Posted by tovangar2

Thank you for the wonderful story of the Forman's deconstructed/reconstructed, and finally demolished, house.

And yes, there really is a Toluca Lake in Toluca Lake, but because the shoreline is entirely private, and well hidden, few have ever seen it. I've only ever viewed it via google maps:

google maps


The owners pay for the water to keep it topped up.

From the way-back machine....Toluca Lake in its natural state.




Dog's been in swimmin'.

[tovangar2]

Thank you ScottyB and e_r for the follow-ups.

Wow, the Follies Village with neon. What a treat. And Toluca Lake was lovely back in the day (just look at all the tule), especially compared to what it's become. Shoulda been a park.

You can make anything out of tule. A house, a boat, floor mats, sandals, hats, baskets. It's good for anything except eating.


...........................................................................


While looking for an image of that little 1880s house on the SE corner of W 4th and S Olive when nestled in its original neighborhood, I remembered the image below. It doesn't show the house in question, which is out of shot to the left, but does give a sense of the neighborhood before serious urbanization hit.

The pretty house in the lower-left corner is going to fall for the P.E. rail yard.

RB Young's Broxtburn/Park Hotel (just right-of-center, with the turret) at the NE corner of W 5th and S Hill, looks startlingly new. Hazard's great barn of a pavilion is at right facing out-of-view Central Park:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

usc digital archive

Remembering too that this block, W 4th to W 5th and S Olive to S Hill, was bought by the Hazard Taft family for $9.80 in 1866. Finding it lonely and remote without any neighbors, they offered free house lots along the S Olive St side, but no one took them up on it.

By 1871 though, a few hardy pioneer families had joined them in the hinterlands:

ucla



.

[Beaudry]

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson

Yes, we're looking southeast across Olive and 4th Streets and I believe the Masonic building you're looking for is the building with all the advertising on it that I've identified as being the PE building which technically it is. On Baist maps of the period, this building is shown as being the offices for the PE and the PE Club Building but it is in fact also the Masonic building at the same time. Here's a shot of it in about 1920...


P.E. Hill Street Station, ca.1920

Next door to the Masonic Temple built in 1896. The P.E. Hill Street Station served an outdoor railhead which sat just out of frame to the right. Large building directly behind the Masonic Lodge is the Trenton on Olive.

USC digital archive/Title Insurance and Trust, and C.C. Pierce Photography Collection, 1860-1960

As you can see it is south of the PE terminal, rather than west.

While always known as a Masonic Temple during its 1896-1925 existence (it did after all have such carved onto the second floor quite prominently), one small point of clarification—many a Blue Lodge did meet there (e. g. LA 42, Pentalpha 202) as well as the Scottish Rite, which had the whole third floor, after its 1896 opening, however, the Rite moved out and into their own magnificent temple/theater in 1906 (Hudson and Munsell, 929 S Hope, made obsolete by the opening of the Rite on Wilshire, and felled in 1970); and the Blue Lodges (along, I believe, with the York Rite, another appendant body in Masonry) moved away to a larger building in 1907 (also Hudson and Munsell [also known for the Shrine Auditorium of 1906, and the Bunker Hill Elks Lodge of 1910] at Pico and Figueroa).

A host of Hudson & Munsells:


Pico/Figueroa, 1907-1985 usc


Scottish Rite, 929 S Hope, 1906-1970


Shrine Auditorium, 649 W Jefferson, burns 1920, replaced 1926


Elks Lodge, 300 S Olive, 1910-1962

(latter three images, postcards)

No great surprise, Hudson & Munsell were also responsible for the recently-discussed 1910 Elks Lodge in Pedro.

[Beaudry]

Originally Posted by tovangar2

Thank you ScottyB and e_r for the follow-ups.

Wow, the Follies Village with neon. What a treat. And Toluca Lake was lovely back in the day (just look at all the tule), especially compared to what it's become. Shoulda been a park.


...........................................................................


While looking for an image of that little 1880s house on the SE corner of W 4th and S Olive when nestled in its original neighborhood, I remembered the image below. It doesn't show the house in question, which is out of shot to the left, but does give a sense of the neighborhood before serious urbanization hit.

The pretty house in the lower-left corner is going to fall for the P.E. rail yard.

RB Young's Broxtburn/Park Hotel (just right-of-center, with the turret) at the NE corner of W 5th and S Hill, looks startlingly new. Hazard's great barn of a pavilion is at right facing out-of-view Central Park:


Remembering too that this block, W 4th to W 5th and S Olive to S Hill, was bought by the Hazard Taft family for $9.80 in 1866. Finding it lonely and remote without any neighbors, they offered free house lots along the S Olive St side, but no one took them up on it.



.

SE cnr of 4th and Olive? This/these?

lapl under "William Widney"

[MichaelRyerson]

Originally Posted by Beaudry

SE cnr of 4th and Olive? This/these?

lapl under "William Widney"

Yes, as I've been trying to say...(although I'm not a fan of the extreme trimming that has apparently visited your LAPL image)


Looking southeast from the Mira Hershey property at 4th Street and Grand Avenue, ca.1910


I believe we're looking southeast from the now-vacant property from which Almira Hershey's house was moved back in '06. The house catty corner across the intersection is the house for which T2 has been looking.

[BifRayRock]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

When I first saw this photograph a week or so ago on ebay, the noirishly titled 'Big DIME Cafe' immediately caught my eye. (there's a 'Servicemen Welcome' sign above the door)

1950


It was only later that I noticed the 'Follies Village' on the other end of the building.


A few years back I found a matchbook from the 'Follies Village', and tovanger2 did an excellent post on it's location in the old Morgan Building. (on Main St.)

Here's tovangar2's original post chock-full of information.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=31003



t2 included this insurance map showing it was next door to the famous (infamous?) Follies Theater.




But I don't believe we ever found a photograph of the 'Follies Village' in situ. (UNTIL NOW!)


__

Follies, June '56 - NEW SHOW EVERY SATURDAY NIGHT!

http://hdl.huntington.org/cdm/single...0coll2/id/8679