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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2007, 6:23 PM
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^ Yeah but in the US Latinos are counted separately even though many are white. Also black/white mixed people are always termed as "black" in the US.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2007, 8:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
^ Yeah but in the US Latinos are counted separately even though many are white. Also black/white mixed people are always termed as "black" in the US.
no. most hispanics are not white (mostly mestizo and amerindian) and are not counted separately. mixed race whites/blacks typically check "black" on the form becuase they perceive themselves as black.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2007, 10:47 PM
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^ So are you telling me that Amerindian Mexicans are counted as white on the US census?
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2007, 12:03 AM
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Some London figures:



These are the figures for London, Inner London, Outer London, and London and Home Counties* respectively. As you can see Outer London is only slightly whiter than Inner London - mainly because most of the Indian population lives in the outer suburbs which offsets the other minorities being more numerous in Inner London. Metro London is considerably whiter than London itself. However the totals are of course larger. Including mixed-race there are 1.1 million blacks in metro London and 1.3 million South Asians.



Population of London by ethnic group in mid 2004 (000s):

- Total = 7,428.6
- White: British = 4,336.5
- White: Irish = 200.6
- White: Other White = 645.1
- Mixed: White and Black Caribbean = 73.6
- Mixed: White and Black African = 38.4
- Mixed: White and Asian = 68
- Mixed: Other Mixed = 67.7
- Asian or Asian British: Indian = 473.8
- Asian or Asian British: Pakistani = 161.8
- Asian or Asian British: Bangladeshi = 165.9
- Asian or Asian British: Other Asian = 147.6
- Black or Black British: Black Caribbean = 334.4
- Black or Black British: Black African = 412.5
- Black or Black British: Other Black = 62.1
- Chinese or Other Ethnic Group: Chinese = 103
- Chinese or Other Ethnic Group: Other = 137.5

Non white and non-white British percentages in mid 2004:
- The non white British population = 41.6%
- The non white population = 30.2%



Inner London by ethnic group in mid 2004 (000s):

- Total = 2,931.1
- White: British = 1,500.3
- White: Irish = 84.4
- White: Other White = 350.1
- Mixed: White and Black Caribbean = 35.6
- Mixed: White and Black African = 19.2
- Mixed: White and Asian = 27.8
- Mixed: Other Mixed = 32.5
- Asian or Asian British: Indian = 105.4
- Asian or Asian British: Pakistani = 51.1
- Asian or Asian British: Bangladeshi = 132.5
- Asian or Asian British: Other Asian = 42.6
- Black or Black British: Black Caribbean = 178
- Black or Black British: Black African = 220.6
- Black or Black British: Other Black = 35.3
- Chinese or Other Ethnic Group: Chinese = 53.1
- Chinese or Other Ethnic Group: Other = 62.7

Non white and non-white British percentages in mid 2004:
- The non white British population = 48.8%
- The non white population = 34%



Outer London by ethnic group in mid 2004 (000s):

- Total = 4,497.5
- White: British = 2,836.2
- White: Irish = 116.2
- White: Other White = 295
- Mixed: White and Black Caribbean = 38
- Mixed: White and Black African = 19.2
- Mixed: White and Asian = 40.3
- Mixed: Other Mixed = 35.3
- Asian or Asian British: Indian = 368.4
- Asian or Asian British: Pakistani = 110.7
- Asian or Asian British: Bangladeshi = 33.3
- Asian or Asian British: Other Asian = 105.1
- Black or Black British: Black Caribbean = 156.4
- Black or Black British: Black African = 191.9
- Black or Black British: Other Black = 26.8
- Chinese or Other Ethnic Group: Chinese = 49.9
- Chinese or Other Ethnic Group: Other = 74.9

Non white and non-white British percentages in mid 2004:
- The non white British population = 36.9%
- The non white population = 27.8%



London and Home Counties* by ethnic group in mid 2004 (000s):

- Total = 14,107
- White: British = 10,192.7
- White: Irish = 284
- White: Other White = 861
- Mixed: White and Black Caribbean = 102
- Mixed: White and Black African = 49
- Mixed: White and Asian = 99
- Mixed: Other Mixed = 91.2
- Asian or Asian British: Indian = 589
- Asian or Asian British: Pakistani = 244
- Asian or Asian British: Bangladeshi = 191
- Asian or Asian British: Other Asian = 180.2
- Black or Black British: Black Caribbean = 380
- Black or Black British: Black African = 465
- Black or Black British: Other Black = 70
- Chinese or Other Ethnic Group: Chinese = 139
- Chinese or Other Ethnic Group: Other = 171

Non white and non-white British percentages in mid 2004:
- The non white British population = 27.7%
- The non white population = 19.6%




* London and Home Counties = London + Kent + Surrey + Buckinghamshire + Hertfordshire + Essex + Luton UA + Thurrock UA + Southend on Sea UA + Medway UA + Bracknell Forest UA + Reading UA + Slough UA + Windsor and Maidenhead UA + Wokingham UA




--------------------------------------------------------------------------




London Boroughs

Brent pips Newham with slightly more non white British (69.4% to 67.3%) but Newham has more non whites at 61%. Highlighted in red:




Inner London

Borough, % non white British, % non white
Camden, 47.5, 28.4
City of London, 32.6, 17.4
Hackney, 53.7, 39.9
Hammersmith & Fulham, 41.2, 22.2
Haringey, 53.1, 35.2
Islington, 41.8, 25.2
Kensington and Chelsea, 51.5, 23.1
Lambeth, 46.8, 35.2
Lewisham , 43.7, 34.7
Newham, 67.3, 61.0
Southwark, 46.9, 36.0
Tower Hamlets, 56.3, 46.7
Wandsworth, 34.1, 21.0
Westminster, 52.1, 28.9



Outer London

Borough, % non white British, % non white
Barking and Dagenham, 25.3, 20.3
Barnet, 42.0, 28.3
Bexley, 15.3, 11.4
Brent, 69.4, 54.4
Bromley, 16.3, 10.7
Croydon, 39.9, 33.2
Ealing, 54.6, 41.4
Enfield, 41.9, 26.9
Greenwich, 33.2, 25.6
Harrow, 52.1, 43.6
Havering, 11.0, 7.4
Hillingdon, 31.5, 24.3
Hounslow, 45.8, 36.9
Kingston upon Thames, 27.3, 18.5
Merton, 38.0, 26.3
Redbridge, 46.1, 39.7
Richmond upon Thames, 24.5, 10.8
Sutton, 19.1, 13.3
Waltham Forest, 46.3, 36.8




--------------------------------------------------------------------------




The above figures are all from mid 2004. Of course UK immigration has been at record levels since then. Much media attention has been focussed on arrivals from the new EU member states (since May 1st 2004) and there are no reliable figures on the numbers of A8 immigrants in Britain. The government says 600,000 have applied for the worker registration scheme but that doesn't include the self-employed or those who simply couldn't be bothered to register but who work here anyway (like some Lithuanian forum friends of mine.... ). On the other hand some of the 600,000 will not stay here permanently.

Outside the EU the figures for legal immigrants, at least, are a bit more reliable. Below are the official numbers of immigrants by country in 2005. Note that some groups are more likely to stay permanently in Britain than others. Americans, Australian, New Zealanders, Japanese and western Europeans will often work here for a few years and then return. Many Chinese are students so will study for a few years and then return. However Africans and Indians are mainly coming in via marriage and are most likely to stay in Britain permanently:


2005 Immigrants to Britain by Country:

01) India = 92,000
02) Australia = 78,000
03) Poland = 69,000
04) South Africa = 63,000
05) US = 50,000
06) China = 49,000
07) Pakistan = 46,000
08) Germany = 43,000
09) France = 28,000
10) New Zealand = 27,000
11) Spain = 27,000
12) Philippines = 20,000
13) Nigeria = 19,000
14) Japan = 17,000
15) Bangladesh = 17,000

Last edited by Mercutio; May 3, 2007 at 11:26 AM.
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2007, 3:00 AM
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^ So are you telling me that Amerindian Mexicans are counted as white on the US census?
i don't know.
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2007, 3:57 AM
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On the census, Hispanics mark their race (white, black, Native American, Asian/Pacific Islander, or "Other") and then a separate box to indicate Hispanic ancestry. Amerindian Hispanics usually mark "Other" because "Native American" on the census only refers to indigenous groups in North America and not south of the border. The Hispanic box is for anyone of Hispanic ancestry regardless of their race or racial mix.
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2007, 6:30 AM
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How do you manage to remember all those categories and subcategories, crisp?

The last US census was years ago ...
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2007, 10:01 PM
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Well, actually there is a census every five years in the US. However, the big, official one is published every ten. One can view the 2000 or 2005 census anytime on the internet.
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  #29  
Old Posted May 2, 2007, 8:14 PM
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Note that "white" on the UK census includes Turks who may be considered non-white in, say, Germany (at least according to Checker ).
There are no statistics about race or skin color in Germany. That is a taboo.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 2, 2007, 11:39 PM
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There are no statistics about race or skin color in Germany. That is a taboo.
true, but like in Sweden I hardly think Turks are considerd "white" by most people. "White" in the northEuroeapn sense is hardly the same as "caucasian" in the US sense.
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  #31  
Old Posted May 3, 2007, 1:37 AM
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true, but like in Sweden I hardly think Turks are considerd "white" by most people. "White" in the northEuroeapn sense is hardly the same as "caucasian" in the US sense.
I Agree. Even in the united states, even though turks are legally caucasian. I very highly doubt the "average" white man looks at a Turks the same as a white person of european ancestry, except for a few select locales.
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  #32  
Old Posted May 3, 2007, 7:32 AM
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I Agree. Even in the united states, even though turks are legally caucasian. I very highly doubt the "average" white man looks at a Turks the same as a white person of european ancestry, except for a few select locales.
Do Turks look at least Italianesque in look? The reason being is that I have witnessed that some Turks and Iranians totally look white, while others definitely have that Arab look.

Anyway, some give a shot in the dark hear; what is Europe demographically, focusing on the white percentage in this case anyway.
95%, 90%, 85% white or what. If Great Britain is 90% white then from just from limited common knowledge about France I would guess it is about 85% white and Germany about 90% like GB. Italy is probably 90% white and Spain I would guess at 80% white. Europe as a whole........ 90% white. Europe is the motherland for the European race, immigration is fine but to keep the continent intact it should never fall below 80% white for any reason.
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  #33  
Old Posted May 3, 2007, 8:37 AM
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Actually, Spain is probably well over 90% white. Remember that it had very little immigration until very recently (and lots of the current immigrants are white too, actually). Italy is undoubtedly 95% + white.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 3, 2007, 9:38 AM
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Do Turks look at least Italianesque in look? The reason being is that I have witnessed that some Turks and Iranians totally look white, while others definitely have that Arab look.
Not many Italians 'round here, so couldn't say. But, yeah, there's plenty of variety in looks among those from the Middle East (and certainly not just based on ethnicity) smae goes for people from pretty much everywhere in my experience.

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Europe is the motherland for the European race, immigration is fine but to keep the continent intact it should never fall below 80% white for any reason.
WTF? That's really blatant racism. With most of Europe being modern liberal democracies, you'll find that we don't care about that kind of thing - our system is based on the individual, not "race" (which is just a social construct anyway).
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  #35  
Old Posted May 3, 2007, 6:08 PM
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Actually, Spain is probably well over 90% white. Remember that it had very little immigration until very recently (and lots of the current immigrants are white too, actually). Italy is undoubtedly 95% + white.
Watch the movie Volver and you might change your mind.
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  #36  
Old Posted May 4, 2007, 3:22 AM
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Do Turks look at least Italianesque in look? The reason being is that I have witnessed that some Turks and Iranians totally look white, while others definitely have that Arab look.
.
Of course some turks look white. But the vast majority do not. Many Turks and Persians are very dark in complexion. Of course there are outlyers in any group. Even many Scilians and Greeks are fairly dark. But that is besides the point, as someone else pointed out earlier it does not matter what percetange of europe is "white"
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  #37  
Old Posted May 4, 2007, 3:35 AM
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And I guess you are talking with some kind of authority here? Like actually being around Turks everyday?

I honestly question your motives of being in this thread also taking into account your deleted post.

And FYI, the vast mayority of Turks do look "white"...
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  #38  
Old Posted May 4, 2007, 8:22 AM
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And I guess you are talking with some kind of authority here? Like actually being around Turks everyday?

I honestly question your motives of being in this thread also taking into account your deleted post.

And FYI, the vast mayority of Turks do look "white"...
To answer your question. Yes I have been around Turks alot.

Even though I am not Turkish. I have relatives of Armenian ancestry which is right next to Turkey. And I know that even among the Armenian community, many Armenians have faced discrimination. Culturally speaking Armenians are more accepted by Europeans then turks.

I am not even going into the whole racial classification issue.

That being said, I think the fact that the EU has given Turkey such a hard time says alot. I am not saying the EU is racist, but I know for a fact in Germany that Turks are defintly not considered white. "White looking" yes but thats about it. I bet if you talked to many of the Turks living in Eastern Europe you would know what I am talking about. There has been some rather noteworthy incidents of racial violence against Turks in Germany. Again I am not blaming the EU. I think the EU is tolerant as a whole. But it does not change the fact that the average European does not consider Turks to be white as you suggest SHIRO.

For every light skinned Turk you point to me, I can give you a dark skinned example. Turkey is a very diverse country, some turks are very asiatic looking, others look more European. But the vast majority are somewhere in between.

This thread is about the demographics of Europe. If you want to jump on someone, jump on Liat. He is the one who suggested that Europe should be mostly European. ;oP

Last edited by MtnClimber; May 4, 2007 at 8:40 AM.
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  #39  
Old Posted May 4, 2007, 2:04 PM
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There arent many Turks living in Eastern Europe. Most Turks in Europe live in Germany, the Netherlands, the UK, Austria and France (excluding the European part of Turkey of course).

"The EU" can't be racist or tolerant because the EU is not an entity who can possess such attributes. Besides the EU is made up of 27 member states and in all of those states the general attitute on immigrants differs.

I don't know of any notable racial incidents against Turks in Germany, if they are so notable you should name them, but I suspect you are talking out of your ass again. Sure there are bound to be incidents seeing how large the Turkish community is in Germany, but nothing out of the "ordinary".

Turks are not seen as white, neither are they seen as mongeloid or black, because generally in Europe people are not classified that way. So Americans coming in here telling us that Turks are not considered white in Europe is laughable. Turks are Turks and Germans are Germans.

Also your distinction between light skinned and dark skinned is pointless. Most Turks could easily be mistaken for Greeks. There are other countries where there are a lot of people with "dark skin" like Spain, France, Portugal, Italy. Due to centuries of mixing, Northern Europeans could just as easily have darker skin. Sure, most Turks can be recognized as such, but not on their skin color. I assure you that most Turks are light skinned.
With your "somewhere in between" line you are finally hitting some truth, but how do you think people look like in other European countries? Not all Swedes are blond and blue eyes, not all Italians are dark haired.
But you wouldn't know because you probably never been here, right?
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  #40  
Old Posted May 4, 2007, 3:33 PM
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but I know for a fact in Germany that Turks are defintly not considered white.
yeah right. Just out of curiosity...have you ever been to either Germany or Turkey?

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There has been some rather noteworthy incidents of racial violence against Turks in Germany.
Of course you are certainly able to provide several links of such "incidents" to prove your claim, aren't you???
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