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  #61  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
Yep, when PM Mackenzie-King decided that it would be volunteers only who would carry the fight to Japan after May 1945. The only Canadian unit in the Western Pacific at the time was HMCS UGANDA (Cruiser). A third of the ships company decided not to volunteer due to many reasons better described here.

http://www.navalandmilitarymuseum.or...uganda-episode

It was an ugly episode and displayed poor planning and execution on part of the government of the day.

And it has not been forgotten by our allies to the south.

http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.ca/201...ot-canada.html

http://blog.usni.org/2015/10/21/alli...wartime-pyrite
Wow thanks for the lesson.

Fascinating that on the week we remember the death of Cpl Nathan Cirillo & WO Patrice Vincent is the same time our new PM elect throws in the towel & abandon our closest allies in the fight against this sick & twisted ideology.

Sad & cowardly.
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  #62  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
Fascinating that on the week we remember the death of Cpl Nathan Cirillo & WO Patrice Vincent is the same time our new PM elect throws in the towel & abandon our closest allies in the fight against this sick & twisted ideology. Sad & cowardly.
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  #63  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
Wow thanks for the lesson.

Fascinating that on the week we remember the death of Cpl Nathan Cirillo & WO Patrice Vincent is the same time our new PM elect throws in the towel & abandon our closest allies in the fight against this sick & twisted ideology.

Sad & cowardly.
Big giant "meh" from me. Bring the boys back home.

This isn't our fight, and the simple fact of us fighting there just simply fans the flames of ideology that ISIS thrives on.

Not cowardly at all either IMO.
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  #64  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:12 PM
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Prime Minister-designate Justin Trudeau’s decision to withdraw Canada from the U.S.-led bombing mission against ISIS in Syria and Iraq sends the wrong message to our allies and a terrible one to the world’s persecuted minorities.



http://www.edmontonsun.com/2015/10/2...ers-fight-isis


I'm gonna give Jr a chance. I actually like the guy. Didn't vote for him...but like him.

But when Trudeau said we have to fight ISIS responsibly, I spit my coffee out lol. Just like ISIS is slaughtering human beings responsibly!!

Having an influx of 25,000 refugees that have not gone through a proper security check to enter Canada is obviously outrageous and irresponsible.

These are the 2 issues I have with Jr.

For Canada's sake I hope Trudeau learns fast and becomes a very positive and effective Prime Minister.
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  #65  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:16 PM
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kool has a point. Compared to the US, Canada still has a very accessible political sphere. It is possible for someone with few connections and no wealth to speak of to run a federal campaign, get elected and rise through the ranks. This is difficult in the US, and the uppermost echelons seem to be becoming the domain of a relatively small cluster of wealthy and connected people.

JT is a good guy and I voted for his party,
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but I would never for a minute accept that if the T in his last name stood for Tremblay, Tompkins or Tokarczuk that he would be prime minister right now. Not a chance. That in itself is an ominous sign for our democracy.
There is some truth to this in that Justin has the Trudeau legacy that resonates with many. However, Trudeau Sr. was not beloved everywhere especially out west and in later years in Quebec. So the name recognition cuts both ways. However, Justin is not riding entirely on his father's coat tails. There is no question, that Justin shares a charisma with his father, but it is different. More than anything, he and his team crafted a message that enough of the public could buy into, a more hopeful idea of the future. I believe that the Conservatives negativism and dour outlook was running out of the steam and a more positive message from an attractive person was what the public wanted. Yes, the Trudeau name mattered, but if it had been Justin Tremblay with the same charisma and same positive outlook, we may have still voted for him.

I look at myself. I am old enough to have voted for Trudeau Sr. in his later elections but I never bought into his vision so I never voted for him. So, the Trudeau legacy doesn't matter to me, but I still voted for Justin.
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  #66  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:18 PM
VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is online now
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Originally Posted by drew View Post
Just like I haven't forgotten the casual 2 years that it took the US to enter both of the real wars of the past century.
To be fair to the US, WWI started as an European Imperial war. Why would a republic across the ocean get involved? Canada OTOH was still basically a colony of empire and we were engaged weather we wanted to or not.

In WWII the US would have just taken on Japan if Hitler had not declared war on the US after Pearl Harbor.

Lots of real politik in action here.

On another note I have grave concerns about the state of our Navy and Air Force if Leslies becomes Defence Minister and is allowed to implement his proposals for Defence reorganization.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novasco...ws-for-halifax
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  #67  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:18 PM
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A crucial part of why Migs feels so strongly opposed to our pulling out of the airstrikes (aside from the fact that the decision will be made by a non-Conservative leader) is his dislike/contempt for Muslims.
And before you challenge that assertion Migs, remember your comment about how all the people in "dirtland" should be nuked?

Your bigotry is your true motivator.
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  #68  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I believe that the Conservatives negativism and dour outlook was running out of the steam and a more positive message from an attractive person was what the public wanted. Yes, the Trudeau name mattered, but if it had been Justin Tremblay with the same charisma and same positive outlook, we may have still voted for him.
By the same token, there are probably many other politicians who could have run on a similar platform and beaten Harper. It's telling that Trudeau was the one who got the chance, though.
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  #69  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
You didn't read the column did you? Withdrawing from a military operation consists of more than just flying the jets home.
It hasn't fucking been done yet. Jesus H Christ, you're incredible.

When did you start caring about the people in "dirtland"? Going from wanting them to be nuked from space, to caring about the plight of Muslim women. When did you go start going down on the road to Damascus?
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  #70  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
It hasn't fucking been done yet. Jesus H Christ, you're incredible.
No matter what you say, you're just going to get a bunch of CPC talking points regurgitated. Why bother?
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  #71  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by drew View Post
Big giant "meh" from me. Bring the boys back home.

This isn't our fight, and the simple fact of us fighting there just simply fans the flames of ideology that ISIS thrives on.

Not cowardly at all either IMO.
This isn't our fight? Tell that to the families of Cirillo & Vincent. Tell that to the thousands of Muslims & Christians being slaughtered over there. Could you imagine if Canadians said it "wasn't our fight" during WW2? Wow
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  #72  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Elmira Guy View Post
A crucial part of why Migs feels so strongly opposed to our pulling out of the airstrikes (aside from the fact that the decision will be made by a non-Conservative leader) is his dislike/contempt for Muslims.
And before you challenge that assertion Migs, remember your comment about how all the people in "dirtland" should be nuked?

Your bigotry is your true motivator.
Ignorance personified. I have zero issues with the Muslim faith, just like I have zero issue with the Japanese. It worked in WW2 & now Japan is a free & prosperous country.
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  #73  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:29 PM
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Ignorance personified. I have zero issues with the Muslim faith, just like I have zero issue with the Japanese. It worked in WW2 & now Japan is a free & prosperous country.
Perhaps the most ridiculous argument ever uttered in the annals of SSP. (And this one has been uttered on at least 3 prior occasions). give your fucking head a shake.

Quote:
It worked in WW2 & now Japan is a free & prosperous country
To use your earlier argument, tell that to the survivors of the nuclear bombings and the families of those that perished.

In any event, it is clear that you are not ever going to retract your earlier belief that parts of the Middle East should be subjected to nuclear annihilation.
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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.Elie Wiesel
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  #74  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:29 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
By the same token, there are probably many other politicians who could have run on a similar platform and beaten Harper. It's telling that Trudeau was the one who got the chance, though.
Who are the alternatives that didn't get the chance? That is the problem. I don't see those alternatives. Too many of those in the political game are of the same cloth, so Justin stood out as being different. Jack Layton stood out too, but he is no longer with us. Trudeau got his chance partially because of his name but also because he was already in the political game and because he has the personality and the team that got him noticed. Let's face it, if Justin was cerebral and academic like Stephane Dion, he would have never been elected.
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  #75  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
Ignorance personified. I have zero issues with the Muslim faith, just like I have zero issue with the Japanese. It worked in WW2 & now Japan is a free & prosperous country.
You're comparing a nation state to a religion, and concluding that Japan's post-war success was because of the use of nuclear weapons?

LOL!
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  #76  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:33 PM
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Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
To be fair to the US, WWI started as an European Imperial war. Why would a republic across the ocean get involved? Canada OTOH was still basically a colony of empire and we were engaged weather we wanted to or not.

In WWII the US would have just taken on Japan if Hitler had not declared war on the US after Pearl Harbor.

Lots of real politik in action here.

On another note I have grave concerns about the state of our Navy and Air Force if Leslies becomes Defence Minister and is allowed to implement his proposals for Defence reorganization.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novasco...ws-for-halifax
I am just pointing out, we can hash out the details of a single ship, and how it points to cowardice - but at the same time ignore the fact that the US enters war entirely on it's own benefit. Which it is free to do, just as Canada is free to withdrawl troops if that's what the public decides.


I find this argument regarding withdrawing troops very curious.

In this case we are ending a (kinda) combat mission that was enacted under the previous government, without any direct input from the opinion of the public. Rather they used their majority in the Parliament to decide this. Nothing wrong with that, we voted in Harper with a majority, so we get what we get.

Now, we have just finished a federal election, one in which the party who won, ran on the fact they would do what they are saying they would do.

So here, we have a pretty good idea where the Canadian public stands on this (kinda) combat mission. A solid 40% of Canada decided they wanted out of this fight with ISIL, or at least they couldn't give two shits one way or the other, or enough to vote for the other guy.

How is this part of the "BS" thread? I might agree if JT had done an about face and gone back on his word. But here, he is doing what people voted him in to do.
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  #77  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:34 PM
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Migs, let's explain it in a way you can understand... It's like engaging argument with you. We could fight with you forever and ever and we know nothing will change and it will only get you going even more and come after us with argument after argument and add fuel to your fire. it only gets us more frustrated so we keep fighting back. We should just stop talking to you and back away from the conversation, not because we are cowardly and irresponsible, but because we know that there is no clear end and we are doing more harm than good, and you should always have an exit strategy, just like a smart PM and not engage in war forever and ever.

Does this make sense to you?
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  #78  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:35 PM
VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is online now
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
It hasn't fucking been done yet. Jesus H Christ, you're incredible.

When did you start caring about the people in "dirtland"? Going from wanting them to be nuked from space, to caring about the plight of Muslim women. When did you go start going down on the road to Damascus?
Hey, remember this UN Policy?

http://www.responsibilitytoprotect.org/

And Canada's signatory to it under the Liberal banner?

https://www.worldfederalistscanada.o.../AxworthyE.pdf

Do not be surprised if Trudeau the younger gets us involved in some nasty buisness in Africa under the UN banner.
Peacekeeping isn't the sunny vacation that was Cyprus in the 60's and 70's anymore.
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  #79  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
This isn't our fight? Tell that to the families of Cirillo & Vincent. Tell that to the thousands of Muslims & Christians being slaughtered over there. Could you imagine if Canadians said it "wasn't our fight" during WW2? Wow
Chicken before the egg and all that.

I think Canada's record on fighting in actual wars is well substantiated.

As is Canada's decisions to stay out of some of the more dubious ones.
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  #80  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2015, 4:43 PM
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Wow, if a nuclear explosion is such a wonderful propagator of freedom and prosperity, maybe economically struggling areas like here in the Maritimes should request some to use on ourselves! I wonder how long it takes for the economic stimulation to take effect?
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