Northern Ontario developments!

[TbayON]

It's difficult to really push for downtown anything in Northern Ontario with a proportionally larger baby-boomer crowd that prefers the auromobile-centric lifestyle. Younger generations get the need for true urban revitalization... the middle aged, middle class suburbanites don't yet. They want something that they can park their SUV or truck at, and walk in the door.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by TbayON

It's difficult to really push for downtown anything in Northern Ontario with a proportionally larger baby-boomer crowd that prefers the auromobile-centric lifestyle. Younger generations get the need for true urban revitalization... the middle aged, middle class suburbanites don't yet. They want something that they can park their SUV or truck at, and walk in the door.

Sudbury is lacking any real parking garages for those suburbanites. I think if the plan had included massive parking garages, the people would have seen it would be a better thing.

[vid]

Thunder Bay has parking garages and that wasn't enough. And unfortunately for those of us who remain, most young people move away and the baby boomers win.

Thunder Bay's multiplex is essentially dead in the water since no one will pay for it, so it's not much of an issue here anymore, but if it ever does get built downtown will be far better. Suburban multiplexes cause traffic jams because you have too many cars trying to leave at the same time through a very limited number of exits.

[swimmer_spe]

Really, we only need to look to Ottawa. They are planning on replacing the arena and build it downtown.

More and more, cities are densifying and moving things more downtown. Sadly, we are behind the times, still.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by TbayON

It's difficult to really push for downtown anything in Northern Ontario with a proportionally larger baby-boomer crowd that prefers the auromobile-centric lifestyle. Younger generations get the need for true urban revitalization... the middle aged, middle class suburbanites don't yet. They want something that they can park their SUV or truck at, and walk in the door.

The City of Greater Sudbury is far more disjointed than most cities. Even for a Northern Ontario city. It's a city ringed by a bunch of smaller separate little towns that were forced together. It makes building a consensus for anything painful.

However, I did not realize that the current arena was in such poor shape.

[TbayON]

THUNDER BAY

The province has announced that it will be funding the development of a full cardiac care program at the Thunder Bay Health Sciences Centre. This new program will cost tens of millions to set up and will require addition & renovation to the hospital covering about 20000 square feet. Many new jobs will also be created.

The Thunder Bay International Airport will be undergoing significant renovations (mostly interior) soon. A roughly 2700 square foot addition is also going to be put on the terminal to house a new Canada Border Services customs area.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Really, we only need to look to Ottawa. They are planning on replacing the arena and build it downtown.

More and more, cities are densifying and moving things more downtown. Sadly, we are behind the times, still.

It'll never change. In my experience, Canadians outside of the Big 3 cities are vehemently anti-urban. They all have some weird conception that their town or city isn't a "city" or is not "big".

I remember attending an Ottawa public consultation on LRT. One of the city's engineers presented for 30 minutes on why the LRT was needed, population projections, traffic projections, limits of BRT, etc. First question: "Why do we need this? Ottawa is not that big. We don't need a subway like Toronto." This after the engineer drawing parallels to several cities Ottawa's size elsewhere having light metro systems. And Ottawa is a city with a CMA of a million. I can only imagine the anti-urban nonsense that a city of say 100 000 or a town of 20 000 gets. My in-laws are from London. It's shocking to see how anti-urban Londonites are. And they are verging on half a million.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It'll never change. In my experience, Canadians outside of the Big 3 cities are vehemently anti-urban. They all have some weird conception that their town or city isn't a "city" or is not "big".

I remember attending an Ottawa public consultation on LRT. One of the city's engineers presented for 30 minutes on why the LRT was needed, population projections, traffic projections, limits of BRT, etc. First question: "Why do we need this? Ottawa is not that big. We don't need a subway like Toronto." This after the engineer drawing parallels to several cities Ottawa's size elsewhere having light metro systems. And Ottawa is a city with a CMA of a million. I can only imagine the anti-urban nonsense that a city of say 100 000 or a town of 20 000 gets. My in-laws are from London. It's shocking to see how anti-urban Londonites are. And they are verging on half a million.

I lived in Halifax and Victoria for a few years. They still have the attitude they are small towns. Various parts of Victoria even turned a 4 lane road into ....2 lanes...

[vid]

I've been volunteering with the city and EcoSuperior to put on an event on Simpson Street this fall with the goal of bringing some businesses to the Charry's Corner area, and the businesses in that area (all both of them) only cry "parking, parking, parking!"

That's all people care about here is parking.

I got a laugh out of a letter to the editor posted to TBNewsWatch today of someone complaining about how difficult it was to leave the Fort after last weekend's event. That's exactly what things would be like if the event centre were built in Innova Park but they don't realize it because they're self-centred idiots.

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by vid

I got a laugh out of a letter to the editor posted to TBNewsWatch today of someone complaining about how difficult it was to leave the Fort after last weekend's event. That's exactly what things would be like if the event centre were built in Innova Park but they don't realize it because they're self-centred idiots.

Glad to know I wasn't the only one laughing at the irony in that letter.

They would argue that there are 3 exits to Innova Park so, of course, it would be easier. They might also argue that they could add another right-in/right-out at Central. Because... CARS!

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I lived in Halifax and Victoria for a few years. They still have the attitude they are small towns. Various parts of Victoria even turned a 4 lane road into ....2 lanes...

And they don't get it. More than anything, it's their anti-urban nonsense that makes me not want to live in those places. Because I know their attitude will keep public services from improving, which in due course also impacts the job market.

Amazingly, Ottawa has somehow managed to push through a massive transformation with LRT. We'll see if this Moose Rail gambit screws them over....

[TbayON]

THUNDER BAY

The city is looking at accelerating upgrades to the Waverley Resource Library, with renovations perhaps beginning next year. Among the upgrades will be a new façade and entrance, as well as more meeting style space for organizations to use. A rough budget for the project is pegged at just over $5 million.

Stairwell shafts are pretty well up at the Delta waterfront hotel. Should see more of the superstructure go up once the stairwells are complete.

In highway news, the province has completed a route study on the Thunder Bay Expressway (TBE). The outcome of the report recommends upgrading the TBE to a full divided highway complete with interchanges from Arthur St. to Balsam St. This was the widely expected outcome, and really isn't that newsworthy in terms of the shock factor. Considerable work needs to occur in terms of property acquisition, environmental approvals and detailed design before the project proceeds, not to mention funding requirements. My gut feeling is this will become a priority after four-laning Hwy 11/17 between Thunder Bay and Nipigon is complete (all other things equal), which would be in the early 2020's.

The province will also be hiring a consultant to study Highway 61 from the airport to Loch Lomand Rd. to examine options for upgrades to that congested route. The province's preferred stance at the moment is to four-lane from the airport to Chippewa Rd., while leaving the Chippewa Rd. to Loch Lomand Rd. stretch 2 lanes.

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by TbayON

THUNDER BAY

The city is looking at accelerating upgrades to the Waverley Resource Library, with renovations perhaps beginning next year. Among the upgrades will be a new façade and entrance, as well as more meeting style space for organizations to use. A rough budget for the project is pegged at just over $5 million.

Don't sell it short! The facade they are planning is a glass face on the wall abutting Red River Rd/Waverly. This is going to be fairly striking and a excellent upgrade to the library's current look. The entrance they are talking about is the Original library entrance which is currently part of the reference area. In addition to the new meeting style space they are also going to be replacing the elevator. This is going to be a massive reconfiguration of the Waverly Library. Definitely going to change the street presence of this building. Very exciting as the library itself has been very blah for as long as I can remember.

Originally Posted by TbayON

In highway news, the province has completed a route study on the Thunder Bay Expressway (TBE). The outcome of the report recommends upgrading the TBE to a full divided highway complete with interchanges from Arthur St. to Balsam St. This was the widely expected outcome, and really isn't that newsworthy in terms of the shock factor. Considerable work needs to occur in terms of property acquisition, environmental approvals and detailed design before the project proceeds, not to mention funding requirements. My gut feeling is this will become a priority after four-laning Hwy 11/17 between Thunder Bay and Nipigon is complete (all other things equal), which would be in the early 2020's.

The province will also be hiring a consultant to study Highway 61 from the airport to Loch Lomand Rd. to examine options for upgrades to that congested route. The province's preferred stance at the moment is to four-lane from the airport to Chippewa Rd., while leaving the Chippewa Rd. to Loch Lomand Rd. stretch 2 lanes.

Is there a place online where this preliminary report might have been posted? I can't seem to find it on the Gov't of Ontario site at all. The recommendations are not a surprise - they've been recommendations since the late 80's I think.

The property acquisitions they speak of should have already been done at the Harbour Expressway and Balsam, a minimum should be needed at Oliver, John, and the future Northwest Arterial. The only place where there might be an issue that I can see is Red River and Arthur.

I am fairly certain that the twinning of the highway to Nipigon is going to drag well into the next decade so I hope that they don't delay construction inside the city until that is complete!

Question - the work that the city has planned for Wardrope this year: is it just re-surfacing or are they upgrading it to four lanes?

[vid]

Wardrope work is just resurfacing. There isn't a need for that road to be four lanes. I don't think the Northwest Arterial, should that be built, will be four lanes north of Dawson, either. I kind of think that the city committing so much to four-laning Junot is an admission that the Northwest Arterial isn't going to be as ambitious a project as originally intended, and I don't think there is a guarantee of it happening.

The Expressway report should be published here in the next week or two:

http://www.thunderbayexpressway.ca/reports.html

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by vid

Wardrope work is just resurfacing. There isn't a need for that road to be four lanes. I don't think the Northwest Arterial, should that be built, will be four lanes north of Dawson, either. I kind of think that the city committing so much to four-laning Junot is an admission that the Northwest Arterial isn't going to be as ambitious a project as originally intended, and I don't think there is a guarantee of it happening.

The Expressway report should be published here in the next week or two:

http://www.thunderbayexpressway.ca/reports.html

Thanks for the link!

I would have to agree in principle that the Northwest Arterial road has definitely changed in its scope since it was first announced. It's long term necessity is becoming more apparent as development progresses further up Dawson Road and down John Street Road. It will also be a major re-alignment of cross-town traffic from the Golf Links-Junot-River corridor, westward, away from the lake. The amount of traffic on Junot will certainly be lessened after the NWAR roundabout as people in County Park can bypass so much... perhaps that has played some small part in the delay of finishing the last small stretch of the Junot four-laning?

[TbayON]

I don't think the prospect of building the northwest arterial has necessarily delayed finishing work on Junot between John & Red River. More so a lack of funds for road upgrades right now (at all levels of gov't). I hope the city doesn't get forced into building it should the province decide to reconfigure the expressway. The city just doesn't have the money, or need more roadway to maintain than it has already.

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by TbayON

I don't think the prospect of building the northwest arterial has necessarily delayed finishing work on Junot between John & Red River. More so a lack of funds for road upgrades right now (at all levels of gov't). I hope the city doesn't get forced into building it should the province decide to reconfigure the expressway. The city just doesn't have the money, or need more roadway to maintain than it has already.

All of the documents at the link provided reference that the northwest arterial interchange with the expressway will only be built in conjunction with the city so if the city has no money then it won't get built.

I suspect that, if no other construction of the northwest arterial has begun, when/if the upgrades to the expressway are underway then the province and city will only build the eastern roundabout and, possibly, the western highway entrance/exit only to provide access to the hospital for southbound traffic. I also fully expect that this will either be the very first or the very last interchange built. And, of course, this is only if the city has the money to proceed.

[vid]

I would imagine they save the stretch between Oliver and Red River for the end as well, either that or the province pitches in significant funds to construct the Northwest Arterial in conjunction with the expressway project.

[swimmer_spe]

On Aug 12-14, the Northern Ontario Party had it's first AGM. They elected an executive. They also planned for the upcoming election. The party also celebrated 40 years of existence. They have been around since 1977.

For more information you can PM me or go to www.northernontarioparty.org

(I will not spam this forum with political things, as it would be a regular occurrence.)

[vid]

Thunder Bay's Google Earth imagery has been updated, it covers this entire CMA plus Grand Portage, Sibley and Gorham/Ware/Jacque/Fowler in very high resolution (the highest so far for the city). The imagery is dated June 7, 2017.



Interesting new things include the collapsed golf dome, subdivision expansion, the weird effect in Downtown Port Arthur due to different parts being scanned when the satellite was in different locations, and highway expansion near Pass Lake.