Baseball or Basketball - what would do better here?

[go_leafs_go02]

Does Nat Bailey have ANY good transit connections?

Canada line runs within a km of the stadium, but still, you're looking at a fairly lengthy walk in some ways...

[mrjauk]

Originally Posted by Vancity

Was just listening to Team1040 radio, while driving, and heard Tom Mayenecht (sp?), say that it could be a possibility for the owners of the Canadians, to possibly expand Nat Bailey Stadium to 10,000, which apparently, is standard for Triple AAA baseball. I think Vancouver can get AAA baseball again - that would put us in position for a possible MLB franchise down the road. The question is, how are they going to expand, and would the community be on board with that? If not, where else could they build a Triple AAA baseball ballpark in the city?

The problem with Nat Bailey is its location--in the middle of a residential neighbourhood, with no possibility of expanded parking facilities combined with exceptionally poor transit connections.

As for the recent surge in C's attendance, I would attribute that to summer having finally arrived here in Lotusland and the locals' latent fear of the imminent return of the rain. Might as well get out and enjoy the sun while it's here.

As for the OP's question that started this thread, I, like Jlousa, also can't see an MLB calling Vancouver home during my lifetime (I'm in my mid-40s). A lot would have to change for that to happen.

[golog]

An MLB franchise will never come to Vancouver. The audience for baseball peaked and is declining as the fanbase ages. It also doesn't help baseball stadiums don't draw as much multipurpose revenue for other events like a football/soccer/hockey stadium does. The Blue Jays might not even last for the long term in Toronto if Rogers does not choose to support them.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by golog

An MLB franchise will never come to Vancouver.

That's incredible. A person with the power to see limitlessly into Vancouver's future. 30 years; 50 years; 200 years. It doesn't matter; he just knows. That's incredible.

[golog]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

That's incredible. A person with the power to see limitlessly into Vancouver's future. 30 years; 50 years; 200 years. It doesn't matter; he just knows. That's incredible.

I'll make more predictions, the XFL and Slamball will never locate a franchise in Vancouver. Baseball is an artifact. It probably has more of a future overseas where the fanbase is still younger. If it's to grow in Canada and the USA, they'll need to take prices back a few decades where the tickets were almost free and they made money selling cheap food. The MLB is on the verge of contracting a dozen teams with its biggest TV contract ever. The stadiums are practically empty every time I see it on TV. They're on course for a lockout where they need to slash salaries to keep those franchises afloat. It's a long way until it is a gate driven league, and it's doubtful that the MLB survives that transition without which its fanbase continues to shrink due to age. If you search for some sports marketing demographics, baseball just hasn't attracted young fans for decades. Hockey, Basketball, Football, Soccer do.

Soccer, Basketball, Golf, Tennis, ...: they weren't around as viewership options when the bulk of MLB's fanbase grew up. They'll need a big restructuring to make the games more attractive.

Provided the MLB is around, Vancouver probably isn't going to leapfrog a dozen existing or potential cities to attract a franchise. Besides, we're a resort-only city and Las Vegas doesn't have any big sports franchises either.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by golog

I'll make more predictions, the XFL and Slamball will never locate a franchise in Vancouver. Baseball is an artifact. It probably has more of a future overseas where the fanbase is still younger. If it's to grow in Canada and the USA, they'll need to take prices back a few decades where the tickets were almost free and they made money selling cheap food. The MLB is on the verge of contracting a dozen teams with its biggest TV contract ever. The stadiums are practically empty every time I see it on TV. They're on course for a lockout where they need to slash salaries to keep those franchises afloat. It's a long way until it is a gate driven league, and it's doubtful that the MLB survives that transition without which its fanbase continues to shrink due to age. If you search for some sports marketing demographics, baseball just hasn't attracted young fans for decades. Hockey, Basketball, Football, Soccer do.

Soccer, Basketball, Golf, Tennis, ...: they weren't around as viewership options when the bulk of MLB's fanbase grew up. They'll need a big restructuring to make the games more attractive.

Provided the MLB is around, Vancouver probably isn't going to leapfrog a dozen existing or potential cities to attract a franchise. Besides, we're a resort-only city and Las Vegas doesn't have any big sports franchises either.

Well, you clearly have it all figured out.

Hilarious.

[incognism]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Does Nat Bailey have ANY good transit connections?

Canada line runs within a km of the stadium, but still, you're looking at a fairly lengthy walk in some ways...

The 3 Main is the primary transit option for Nat Bailey. It works great for people with access to the Expo Line -- not so much else for others.

Originally Posted by golog

I'll make more predictions, the XFL and Slamball will never locate a franchise in Vancouver. Baseball is an artifact. It probably has more of a future overseas where the fanbase is still younger. If it's to grow in Canada and the USA, they'll need to take prices back a few decades where the tickets were almost free and they made money selling cheap food. The MLB is on the verge of contracting a dozen teams with its biggest TV contract ever. The stadiums are practically empty every time I see it on TV. They're on course for a lockout where they need to slash salaries to keep those franchises afloat. It's a long way until it is a gate driven league, and it's doubtful that the MLB survives that transition without which its fanbase continues to shrink due to age. If you search for some sports marketing demographics, baseball just hasn't attracted young fans for decades. Hockey, Basketball, Football, Soccer do.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/...s-11_rank.html

Only three teams lost money last year. The MLB's revenue sharing program - as unfavoured as it is by the big boys like the Yankees and Red Sox - has proven to be a working model. Contraction rumours have only been floated about two teams (Oakland and Tampa Bay), not "a dozen" as you erroneously quoted. Even then, it's highly unlikely to happen. The last time MLB went into contraction talks, 10 years ago, the Expos moved to DC and Minnesota ended up keeping their franchise.

[go_leafs_go02]

The Province with an article from this past weekend speculating Triple A baseball coming to Vancouver (aka the highest level of baseball after the Major Leagues)

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Va...megadrop_story

[blacktrojan3921]

I think both MLB and NBA would do very well here, but it's more likely an NBA would come here. Hopefully through expansion as I think the financially unstable teams in the league would fight nail and teeth to keep they're respective teams where they're are.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

The Province with an article from this past weekend speculating Triple A baseball coming to Vancouver (aka the highest level of baseball after the Major Leagues)

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Va...megadrop_story

An interesting article to read, for sure. I think Triple A ball is realistic, only IF, the current owners, Kerr and Mooney, would be willing to structurally upgrade the Nat. With that being said, I think if Vancouver did get a Triple A franchise, it would be the highest form of professional baseball this city would ever see, because to be frank, in the near future, it's most likely not going to happen. If Vancouver (and it's a big IF) could sustain large crowds, and even sell-outs at Triple A level, then maybe, just MAYBE, it could be time for MLB to look at this great city, and see if it's got potential to be a MLB city.

But Triple A baseball in this city? I think it's very possible, and realistic, too.

[c@taract_soulj@h]

We may have invented basketball but baseballs a much better catch, just sayin with no pun. I guess from a personal standpoint, I grew up playing the sport and followed the Jays before the Indians but nonetheless to me...it just seems more of a past-time up here than b-ball. Go Pistons! But I dunno...I love a good 9 innings before 4-quarters anyday. I'd love a AAA Team in the Hammer. It'd put the Bulldogs in 3rd place and it wouldn't even matter! Shit...I didn't even see it was a BC thread til just now, but I'd absolutely love a homerun falling in this distance of the coast mountaiins. An NBA franchise in Vancouver seems almost bush-league, whereas an MLB team would create so much more of a diverse sporting atmosphere. If they can revamp BC place, I'm sure as hell they could revamp or build a cool looking field "somewhere" in the Lower Mainland to give the Mariners a run for their money =D

[logan5]

Vancouver could definitely support triple A, but it's much more of a professionally run business now than it was back in the day. Even with upgrades to the Nat, I still don't think it would cut it when you look at other parks in triple A baseball. And considering Vancouver would be the biggest market in triple A, its ballpark should reflect that.

A triple A team would generate more revenue than the BC Lions and probably the Whitecaps, so building a 50 to 80 million dollar park (maybe on the waterfront), doesn't seem so far fetched. To put in perspective, the triple A Sacramento River Cats (formally Vancouver's team) are worth around 20 million dollars, while the Lions are worth 7.5 million.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by c@taract_soulj@h

We may have invented basketball but baseballs a much better catch, just sayin with no pun. I guess from a personal standpoint, I grew up playing the sport and followed the Jays before the Indians but nonetheless to me...it just seems more of a past-time up here than b-ball. Go Pistons! But I dunno...I love a good 9 innings before 4-quarters anyday. I'd love a AAA Team in the Hammer. It'd put the Bulldogs in 3rd place and it wouldn't even matter! Shit...I didn't even see it was a BC thread til just now, but I'd absolutely love a homerun falling in this distance of the coast mountaiins. An NBA franchise in Vancouver seems almost bush-league, whereas an MLB team would create so much more of a diverse sporting atmosphere. If they can revamp BC place, I'm sure as hell they could revamp or build a cool looking field "somewhere" in the Lower Mainland to give the Mariners a run for their money =D

They have already revamped BC Place. The renovations to the stadium is almost done. If your thinking more along the lines of having a stadium like the Mariner's down south - no way that's happening here, unless it's all from a billionaire whose willing to invest in such infrastructure. not going to happen. BC Place is going to be around (in it's current form), for a while.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by logan5

Vancouver could definitely support triple A, but it's much more of a professionally run business now than it was back in the day. Even with upgrades to the Nat, I still don't think it would cut it when you look at other parks in triple A baseball. And considering Vancouver would be the biggest market in triple A, its ballpark should reflect that.

A triple A team would generate more revenue than the BC Lions and probably the Whitecaps, so building a 50 to 80 million dollar park (maybe on the waterfront), doesn't seem so far fetched. To put in perspective, the triple A Sacramento River Cats (formally Vancouver's team) are worth around 20 million dollars, while the Lions are worth 7.5 million.

didn't realize that a triple A team here in vancouver would be worth more than the BC Lions. Wow. that's saying something about the CFL.

Vancouver is in a weird position. They would be the largest Triple A market, and yet, just under the Major Leagues. The city isn't MLB standard, but it's just shy of that. Strange that a major international city like Van., can't attract more major league franchises to this city.

[phesto]

The whole thing about the AAA speculation is that it doesn't really mean we would be on course for eventually stepping up to MLB level. In the near future, any AAA team in Vancouver would come about as part of the current Rogers agreement/Blue Jays affiliation, and would be an attempt to strengthen the Jays' position as "Canada's team" for marketing purposes ; for the same reason the idea of AA in Ottawa is being talked about.

Even if a AAA team in Van did extremely well, it would not likely be a stepping stone to getting an MLB team because it would potentially dilute already waning interest in the Jays. Part of the appeal of minor league baseball (as indicated in the article) is taking an interest in the major league club, so it would be a difficult proposition to go to the effort of establishing a AAA club only as a means to demonstrate demand for an MLB team that would ultimately compete with and draw interest away from the parent club; (notwithstanding obvious agreements the owners would have not to pursue MLB.)

This is why Jays exhibition games or regular season series make a ton of sense, but an actual team here does not.

I've been a avid baseball fan my entire life and I can honestly say I don't ever see MLB coming to Vancouver in the next 50 years; but even for argument's sake, I think two things need to happen before there is serious talk about it: 1) the Jays' need to regenerate excitement nationally (and themselves boost attendance) by making the playoffs again, which shouldn't be too difficult under the forthcoming playoff expansion and 2) Vancouver needs to get a AAA affiliate and have excellent attendance for a period of 5 years or more to show we have consistent interest and that we are ready to make the leap.

Once all that takes place, and someone is passionate enough about baseball and with deep enough pockets to pursue a team, then we will be in a position to discuss a minor issue (ie. the most difficult issue)...building a new stadium.

[mrjauk]

Originally Posted by Vancity

didn't realize that a triple A team here in vancouver would be worth more than the BC Lions. Wow. that's saying something about the CFL.

Vancouver is in a weird position. They would be the largest Triple A market, and yet, just under the Major Leagues. The city isn't MLB standard, but it's just shy of that. Strange that a major international city like Van., can't attract more major league franchises to this city.

It is no longer strange once you understand that Vancouver is not a "major international city."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Vancity

The city isn't MLB standard, but it's just shy of that..

Vancouver fits the criteria for a MLB team. Vancouver would be larger than some current teams' markets.

[EastVanMark]

It would be much easier for Vancouver to support an NBA team than a MLB team. The demographics for basketball is quite strong in Vancouver (especially in Vancouver proper). Rogers Arena could host an NBA team tomorrow and the franchise could/would be propped up by the enormously popular/profitable Canucks.

A MLB team would require an enormous investment for both the team acquisition & new stadium (forget BC Place; that would never happen). Secondly, corporate support might become an issue.

Lastly, the article posted about Vancouver getting a Triple A franchise is 100% pure fantasy unless **someone** (the city or the owners of the C's) constructs a totally new or radically altered Nat Bailey the latter of which is almost completely impossible and so expensive that a total reconstruction might prove to be cheaper.

[6042905]

Originally Posted by logan5

Vancouver could definitely support triple A, but it's much more of a professionally run business now than it was back in the day. Even with upgrades to the Nat, I still don't think it would cut it when you look at other parks in triple A baseball. And considering Vancouver would be the biggest market in triple A, its ballpark should reflect that.

A triple A team would generate more revenue than the BC Lions and probably the Whitecaps, so building a 50 to 80 million dollar park (maybe on the waterfront), doesn't seem so far fetched. To put in perspective, the triple A Sacramento River Cats (formally Vancouver's team) are worth around 20 million dollars, while the Lions are worth 7.5 million.

Only 7.5 Mill for the BC Lions?? I've seen houses on Knight Street sell for more than that

[logan5]

Originally Posted by 6042905

Only 7.5 Mill for the BC Lions?? I've seen houses on Knight Street sell for more than that

That's the last number I saw from 2009. The value has most likely increased with the new stadium.

I should correct my last post. The average value of the top 20 Triple A baseball teams is around 20 million. The top AAA team is worth around 29 million. What makes Triple A baseball more lucrative than the CFL is the fact that the player payroll (for AAA baseball) is paid for by the major league affiliate. Without having to pay player salaries, MiLB is a pretty good investment and would turn a pretty good profit in a big market like Vancouver.