Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[wrenegade]

I am conflicted about freeway system beneath Downtown. If it were to happen, I would want it to be exclusively for thru-traffic.

With regards to the Lions Gate, as much as I hate to say it, I think it should remain as is. Ideally, it would be a 4 lane bridge/4 lane causeway. The infrastructure on both ends can't handle 6 lanes of traffic with the light at Denman/Georgia and the lights on Marine at Taylor Way and Cap Road. You'll notice that rarely is the congestion bad enough when both lanes are flowing in your direction. If it is backed up, the wait is hardly a big deal. When the bridge is against you, ya, it sucks, but it is nothing compared to what people have to deal with south of the Fraser. I've been dealing with the bridge for 10+ years and don't like it, but when I do occasionally go south of the Fraser, that shit is brain damage!

A personal dream of mine is to see the port lands west of the automall converted into a new Yaletown-type area with the Canada line extended via a tunnel under Burrard Inlet. If the area had another 20k-30k people (or more) I think it would justify the cost. Under this idea the port facilities would be moved to Deltaport.

But, until something like that happens, and the North Shore experiences considerable growth, the road/transit system (with the 3rd Seabus) is decent. Metro Vancouver has far bigger issues that have to be dealt with first.

In my opinion the best place for a new bridge would be a Boundary/No. 8 road crossing, with an extension of No. 8 road into an interchange with the 91. A 4 lane bridge would probably suffice, maximum 6 (with 2 dedicated HOV/transit lanes). The infrastructure on either end (if an interchange at the 91 was constructed) could relatively easily handle the increased traffic. With the East Fraserlands project, there will eventually be a WHOLE lot more action around that area and a bridge would help move traffic and promote the sustainability of the project itself.

My second choice for a bridge would be across Sapperton Bar. The way the connecting roads would tie into it, plus the grade of the hill on the Surrey side would make this quite difficult and expensive. Plus the new Port Mann and Pattullo bridges will help a lot in this area.

[DKaz]

Since we're on the discussion about the Patullo, here's something I started in AutoCAD a few months ago but haven't touched ever since -- a quick sketch of the new Patullo Bridge on the New West side. Note the onramps/offramps from/to Front Street west is likely to be taken out as it's probably wiser for trucks to cross the Queensborough/Alex Fraser and get to the SFPR there. What I have yet to finish is the Columbia St. realignment and the traffic circle at McBride and Columbia underneath the new flyovers.

The merge lane from Royal Ave to the Patullo is about 150m long but seeing how the speed limit of the Patullo is likely to remain at 60km/h that shouldn't be an issue.

[officedweller]

Here's a report on Tunnel Boring for roadways (Link from Seattle Times wrt the proposed Alaskan Way Viaduct tunnel bore)

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/vie...wnload&id=3591

[DKaz]

I saw the news report on the new Alaska Way tunnel, that's gonna be awesome. Now they can build a nice waterfront like Vancouver's.

[ravman]

Big Dig in Boston?

taking Downtown traffic underground --> Huge huge cost though... but i dunno

[jlousa]

PAtullo to reopen in two weeks, looks like they read my post and copied my idea Not quite but same concept. Anyways as a bonus most of the bridge will be repaved in the meantime as well.
Good to see the the government can move quickly when needed.

http://www.vancouversun.com/Pattullo...042/story.html

[SpongeG]

ah there is a silver lining

that bridge has been in bad need for a paving job for a long time

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by jlousa

PAtullo to reopen in two weeks, looks like they read my post and copied my idea Not quite but same concept.

Hey, throw in your initial idea and my Bailey Bridge idea... and well...

But I have to admit that Translink's plan sounds brilliant:

The Pattullo Bridge will be reopened in two weeks instead of four after TransLink secured a piece of bridging deck used in the Canada Line construction to replace the bridge’s burnt-out wooden trestle.

The new span, which was used as a temporary bridge to allow workers to cross digging gaps during Canada Line construction, specifically at 41st and Cambie, will be plunked into the 18-metre space.

TransLink plans to start Thursday installing the new span, which came from bridge-builders Surespan Construction Ltd. New footing will also be needed to secure the bridge, which is set on elevated sinking soil.

[SpongeG]

A large excavator yesterday rips apart the damaged wooden section of the Pattullo.
Photograph by : Les Bazso, The Province

Truckers hurting as Pattullo stays shut

Extra fuel, wages said between $3.3m and $10m per day

Andy Ivens
The Province


Wednesday, January 21, 2009




While drivers fume in endless lineups caused by the forced closure of the Pattullo Bridge, the tab for the extra time mired in traffic is rising.

The B.C. trucking industry is taking a financial hit estimated at up to $10 million a day.

"Our members are reporting to us delays of half-an-hour to 11/2 hours per leg," Louise Yako, vice-president of the B.C. Trucking Association, said yesterday.

The association has computed the additional cost of wages and fuel of the 252,000 truck trips per day in Metro Vancouver at between $3.3 million and $10.3 million -- and that's based on trips by the industry's smallest trucks.

In addition, said Yako, "we have not included the cost in missed freight . . . or overtime [for unionized drivers]."

Meanwhile, repairs to the bridge -- closed since Sunday morning when a fire scorched an 18-metre wooden section of the span over the Fraser River -- could begin as soon as tomorrow.

TransLink spokeswoman Judy Rudin said a demolition crew that began work Monday -- while some of the massive oak timbers in the trestle on the Surrey side of the bridge were still smouldering -- was scheduled to wrap up yesterday.

The time-line for reopening the 72-year-old bridge is still four weeks, "but we're working hard to reduce that," Rudin said.

TransLink staff counted an additional 400 riders at the King George SkyTrain station heading across the river in yesterday's morning rush hour, she added.

"We want to get people out of cars and onto transit. But if you must drive, please carpool and you can use the HOV lanes."

RCMP Cpl. Peter Thiessen reported an increase in "legal usage" of the high-occupancy-vehicle lanes on Highway 1 yesterday. "We're taking a balanced approach toward any enforcement required on the HOV lanes," he said.

Solo drivers can be ticketed for driving in the lanes.

Thiessen said the worst gridlock has been on feeder routes to get on to the freeway, on to Alex Fraser Bridge and into the Massey Tunnel.

"It's taking sometimes an hour to go one block," he said.

"It took one of our officers three hours to get from roughly King George [Highway] and 72nd [Avenue] to Pitt Meadows.

"We're all in this together. Everyone just needs to take a deep breath and accept the reality."

aivens@theprovince.com

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/ne...e-4b870d19a3a0

[officedweller]

Nice!

Originally Posted by DKaz

I saw the news report on the new Alaska Way tunnel, that's gonna be awesome. Now they can build a nice waterfront like Vancouver's.

Wierd thing is that there won't be any downtown exits from the tunnel. Closest exits will be in SoDo near the stadiums.

[SpongeG]

there aren't many exits now are there? its like a bypass route

[DKaz]

There are a few exits but I hardly see anyone use them except for the exit where the highway exits the existing Battery St. Tunnel. The route is mostly used by people commuting from West Seattle to downtown. When the tunnel is complete, the Viaduct will be replaced with a 4 lane local access arterial from Safeco field through to downtown.

http://www.seattle.gov/mayor/pdf/090...nnel_folio.pdf

Looks like they're abandoning the Battery St. tunnel.

[deasine]

I don't know if you guys seen the video demonstration on YouTube, but the proposed tunnel goes really deep.

• Video Link

[Metro-One]

Very Cool

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Looks like they're abandoning the Battery St. tunnel.

I think I read it may end up as an arterial road.

[amor de cosmos]

the Granville St bridge is getting a redesign:
http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/...uments/tt1.pdf

[officedweller]

Pattullo Replacement Study here:

http://www.translink.bc.ca/Plans/Pub...idor_Study.asp

Pic of the Pattullo Bridge span replacement section in use on the Canada Line site from the Buzzer Blog (provided by Surespan Construction and labelled 25th & Cambie, not 41st):



From the Surrey Leader:

Surrey North Delta Leader
Falcon shifts into reverse on Pattullo tolls
By Jeff Nagel - Surrey North Delta Leader

Published: January 21, 2009 5:03 PM Transportation minister Kevin Falcon says he's going to look for ways to avoid slapping tolls on the Pattullo Bridge after it's rebuilt in the coming years.

The minister said in an interview with Black Press he has reconsidered the issue and decided it would be unfair to commuters to toll the Pattullo replacement in addition to the two other Fraser River bridges that will be tolled – the twinned Port Mann and the soon-to-open Golden Ears Bridge.

TransLink's board voted last July to replace the 71-year-old Pattullo over the next decade, but said at that time tolls would have to be imposed to pay the bill, likely at least $1 billion.

"I do think there's a fundamental issue of fairness for folks south of the Fraser," Falcon said. "Tolls should be a last resort."

Falcon's ministry won public support to toll the twinned Port Mann Bridge in part on the basis the Pattullo would be the free alternative.

After TransLink's decision, Falcon had said the Alex Fraser Bridge would have to become the free alternative for all three tolled bridges up river.

The minister now says he was just so relieved TransLink had ended years of "dithering" and made a decision that he "frankly didn't spend a whole lot of time thinking about the tolling option."

He said he will seek alternate funding sources, including the federal government, to build the new Pattullo replacement bridge without putting tolls on it.

"I would like to bring some senior partnership dollars into the project," Falcon said. "The urgency of getting that replaced is important. I do think I could make a case to the feds to have them join with us and put in some serious money."

Falcon said there may also be a chance to partner with the railways because the Pattullo replacement could conceivably be built to carry trains on a lower level, replacing the century-old New Westminster rail bridge that is a serious bottleneck for cargo traffic.

Falcon did not rule out tolls for the Pattullo if absolutely necessary.

He urged TransLink, which has responsibility for the Pattullo, to proceed quickly to design the new bridge and begin consultations.

"We're open to options to not have it be a tolled bridge," TransLink CEO Tom Prendergast said. "If we can find other sources of funding, we'll be glad to do it."

Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts, who had spoken out against Pattullo tolls, welcomed Falcon's statement and noted there's time to find an untolled solution.

"The bridge is not going to be replaced for 10 years, so we've got 10 years to find funding," she said. "It's significantly unfair to toll every bridge leading out of Surrey."

NDP transportation critic Maurine Karagianis said Falcon is trying to neutralize the contentious issue ahead of the provincial election in May.

"The public outcry has forced the government to go back to their original promise to the people in those communities that the Pattullo bridge would be a free alternative to the tolled bridges," she said.

"The number of broken promises is catching up with them," Karagianis said. "They are trying to find ways to rebuild some voter support."

She said Falcon's failure to explicitly reject tolls on the Pattullo will leave voters confused about what will actually happen.

[deasine]

This is good news.

[Metro-One]

I think it would be better if the new Pattullo was tolled, but the new Port Mann was not. Therefore giving us a 1 to 1 along the river. From East to West - Golden Ears - tolled, Port Mann - free, Pattullo - tolled, Queensburough/Alex Fraser - free.

To me it just makes more sense to go tolled/free/tolled/free than tolled/tolled/free/free.

[Canadian Mind]

agreed.

How many lanes will the Patullo be? How many will be dedicated Commercial/transit lanes?