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  #761  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2017, 6:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Berklon View Post
How often is the Big O used currently?
178 days in 2016.
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  #762  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2017, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal View Post
178 days in 2016.
Things like boat shows or small-time amateur events don't count though, you don't need a facility with a new $300 MM roof for that.

How many events drew a crowd of at least 25,000? i.e., something which could not be accommodated in existing venues?

The 2 Blue Jays exhibition games, maybe an Impact game or two... anything else?
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  #763  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2017, 6:22 PM
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Without any further details about plans for the Big O, it's difficult to say what the differences between BC Place and Big O renovations would be. The two buildings are completely different structures in different contexts. There was a similar debate in BC with respect to cost of demo and building a new stadium vs refurbishing it. The BC/BC Pavilion Corp determined that it would be more cost effective to do the latter. Since completed, BC Place has hosted a ton of events both local and international (Grey Cup, Womens World Cup, new rugby 7s tournament, national soccer and rugby team games, concerts and shows, etc). Sounds like the same approach is being taken by the RIO and the thought is that it could bring new life to the Big O for a lower cost than building brand new relative to the other options. Not saying it's ideal to sink millions into a stadium but it could be much worse. They can't even use the building during the winter! At least with a new roof, it could bring in more events and tourism dollars to the city and Olympic Park. I understand that there's history and all but since Montreal is such a huge events city, it would be a great asset to have.

Let's say you have a building/house with a leaking roof, your options would be:
1) tear it down and build new - this would be very expensive and you might not have the money to do it,
2) repair the leak and maybe do some extra renovations while you're at it - makes the most of what you have for relatively lower cost. Adds value, allows you to continue using the building and has the potential for additional uses,
3) you let it rot to the point of failure - doesn't help you financially or add to your value/use,
4) demo it, sell and buy in a new location - where and how much to acquire new land? add development costs on top of that. Non-starter financially.

All that said, BC Place was gutted and several dozen tower masts were erected to support the new cable supported roof. The scope of the project was massive and wasn't a simple roof replacement. They essentially built a new structure over and around the existing one, which may not be the case for the Big O. I believe the total cost also included additional items like the temporary stadium at Empire Fields to house both Whitecaps and Lions during the construction period. You can compare the underlying approach and thought behind both projects but they're different contexts so you can't really compare apples to oranges in terms of cost.

Last edited by tovan; Nov 10, 2017 at 6:33 PM.
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  #764  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2017, 6:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Things like boat shows or small-time amateur events don't count though, you don't need a facility with a new $300 MM roof for that.

How many events drew a crowd of at least 25,000? i.e., something which could not be accommodated in existing venues?

The 2 Blue Jays exhibition games, maybe an Impact game or two... anything else?
That's not uncommon though.

Paris' newish megastadium isn't that much busier when you consider it's in much larger city in a much more populated country.

https://www.stadefrance.com/fr/billetterie

How busy is Wembley? Not that much I'd say. (Well, it's temporarily the home to Tottenham Hotspur... not sure that counts going forward.)
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  #765  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2017, 2:46 AM
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Unfortunately this $200m-$250m is only for the roof, so even when complete, the Big O still wouldn't be an appropriate national stadium. That could have been an interesting consideration, however...
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  #766  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2017, 3:06 AM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
No chance that the RIO would have provided an inflated demolition estimate to justify its continued existence, is there?

Put it out to the private sector, let's see a RFP. 100% guaranteed you will get bids coming in way way way under that cost.
It's a massive concrete campus that sits on top of a subway line, to demo the place isn't as easy as you make it seem. You couldn't just blow it to bits, you would have to deconstruct it peice by peice which would take time (time = $).

Last edited by osmo; Nov 11, 2017 at 7:51 AM.
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  #767  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2017, 3:47 AM
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It would take 5 years to complete the deconstruction.

I think the Olympic stadium will exists even a hundred years from now, the new roof is supposed to last at least 50 years.
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  #768  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2017, 5:23 PM
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New roof at over $250M. plus millions being spent to gut and renovate the tower for Desjardins. I don't see the Big O being demolished anytime soon.
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  #769  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2017, 5:43 PM
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To make it even worse, it'll still have a cavernous atmosphere even after dumping all that money into it.
Don't worry though it has a lot of seats so it has to be our premiere stadium.
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  #770  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2017, 1:00 AM
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The Big O's roof will be replaced (at a cost of up to $300M)
CTV Montreal November 10, 2017

The Quebec government has given the green light to replace the roof of the Olympic stadium.

There have been thousands of rips in the fabric roof over the years and it must be replaced if the stadium is to be used.

The Olympic Installation Board will now begin a two-year process of deciding what materials the roof will be made from -- but officials said it will be soft and will be a fixed structure. The stadium design cannot support a metal retractable roof, they said.

The budget for the third roof on the stadium will between $200 and $300 million and the OIB would like it to be installed by 2023.

Avi Friedman, PhD in Architecture and a professor at McGill University, said designing a roof for a stadium has been demonstrated to be difficult.

"I don't think that Montrealers will be able to, willing to stomach another large sum of money and increase. And again mistakes in this type of construction and in this type of project may end up in spending many more millions," said Friedman.

The current roof is a fibreglass and Teflon shell supported by a steel frame that sits on the stadium, and cables strung from the tower.

It is nearly 20 years old and has been riddled with problems since the beginning, including in 1999 when the roof tore and snow and ice crashed through onto the Montreal Auto Show.

Since, then the number of rips has gone from 30 to 40 a year to more than 1,200 annually, making the stadium only useable in warmer months.

The roof has ripped 7,453 times over the past ten years, according to a Radio-Canada report.

The original fabric roof was retractable, but also ripped multiple times. It was retracted and installed fewer than 100 times before being removed.

“It was meant to be a very advanced stadium but unfortunately because of the many things that happened over time, it became something that we are not very proud of,” said Friedman.

Montreal's Olympic Stadium with its retractable roof was designed by architect Roger Taillibert and it was built for the 1976 summer games, although the first roof was only installed in 1987.

Though some critics have suggested demolishing the building, Olympic Stadium CEO Michel Labrecque said that's not an option.

“I think it will be a shame to demolish something that our parents, father and grandfather built, that is unique, that is an architectural symbol of Montreal and Quebec,” he said, adding that he doesn’t believe it’s cost effective. “To say, okay, we'll start from scratch, it will cost $500 to $700 million. It will take five years, will be truly complicated, 7,500 trucks will be needed it's a no way.”

On Thursday, Premier Philippe Couillard defended the decision to spend more public dollars on the stadium, saying it can't continue to be used if the roof isn't repaired and abandoning the Big O isn't an option.

Its use is limited, said Labrecque.

“The best time of the year for exhibitions, for shows, is between October and March and the stadium is under a protocol. If it snows more than three centimetres we have to close everything here,” he said, adding that the new roof will double the amount of time the stadium can be used.

“What we want here is a roof that is foolproof 365 days of the year,” he said.
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  #771  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2017, 2:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Don't worry though it has a lot of seats so it has to be our premiere stadium.
Well it *is* a fairly important criterion.
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  #772  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2017, 7:25 AM
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Since the Big O's new roof is to be fixed, perfect opportunity to introduce a ETFE roofing system that can have the best of both worlds of feeling "outside" while fixed in place.
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  #773  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2017, 1:09 PM
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Dismantling Montreal's Olympic Stadium would be 'foolish,' says man in charge
Michel Labrecque, president of Olympic installations board, defends plans to install new $250M roof
Benjamin Shingler CBC News Nov 10, 2017

The man who oversees Montreal's Olympic Stadium says it's "impossible to think about dismantling" the concrete behemoth, even if a new roof could cost as much as half the price of doing so.

"It's part of the culture of Montreal. It's part of the history of Montreal. It's not a classic stadium with four walls and a roof," Michel Labrecque, head of the Olympic installations board (RIO), said in an interview Friday.

"It's part of what we call the patrimoine. My father, your father, paid for it, built it. So it's impossible, foolish to think about dismantling it."

Labrecque's impassioned defence comes a day after the Quebec government announced the stadium will have a new $250-million roof by 2023, prompting questions about whether it wouldn't be more cost-effective to tear down the concrete behemoth.

The Big O's roof has been plagued with problems ever since it was constructed for the 1976 Olympic Games, and it has been steadily deteriorating over the past decade.

Fixing rips cost close to $500K last year

In the last year, the roof tore 677 times, compared to the previous year when it ripped 496 times, according to its 2016 annual report.

In the last 10 years, 7,453 tears have had to be repaired. It cost $498,000 to maintain the roof last year.

It cannot be used if there is more than three centimetres of snow on the roof, rendering it effectively unusable from November to March.

"From a business point of view, we need a roof that is safe, so we can have events in the winters. It's a must," Labrecque said.

The most likely option, he said, is a fixed roof made out of some form of textile, but the RIO will also look at removable options.

The Olympic Stadium hosts between 12 and 18 events — many of them held over several days — per year.

In total, the stadium was in operation for a total of 178 days in 2016, including the time required for preparing and cleaning up after events, according to its most recent annual report.

With the new roof, he said the number of annual events will increase to between 25 and 28, Labrecque said.

Blowing it up not an option

The estimated cost of dismantling the stadium ranges between $500 million and $700 million. Blowing up the stadium and trucking away the concrete and steel isn't an option, he said.

"We cannot implode it. We would have to take a lot of precautions," he said, explaining that it would need to be taken down "block by block" given the nature of the structure, the nearby buildings and two Metro stations.

Labrecque said the stadium continues to serve as an attraction in its own right. The stadium's inclined tower drew 237,000 people last year, and next year Desjardins is set to open a 1,000-person office in the tower.

It's also part of a larger set of attractions in the area, he said, including the Biodome, Rio Tinto Alcan Planetarium and Saputo stadium.

"It's part of Montreal, with the good and the bad side of it," he said. "To dismantle is to deny ourselves and our history."

He maintained, as well, that the Big O is necessary to bring back the Expos.

"They need the stadium to illustrate that baseball has fans now," he said, pointing to the thousands of people who flock to the annual series involving the Toronto Blue Jays.

If Montreal succeeds in getting a team, he added, they will need a place to play while the new stadium is built. And once that happens, they will need a place with to play in the colder weather, if the team were ever to make the playoffs.

Iconic, sure, but make it more usable, architect says

If the stadium is going to endure, it should at least be made more usable, said Avi Friedman, an architect and McGill University professor.

He acknowledged the stadium has earned an iconic place in the city's skyline, but the functionality of the actual building needs to be improved.

"Places become successful when they are well used. Places that only become a symbol because of their shape and form are of no use," he said.

He suggested, too, that the "wasteland that surrounds the stadium itself" would benefit from a redesign that would make it more welcoming to the public.

"I believe that something can be done to that."
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  #774  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2017, 1:12 PM
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Parts of Montreal’s Olympic Stadium roof could be retractable
Canadian Press November 10, 2017

MONTREAL — An agency that oversees Montreal’s Olympic Stadium says parts of the new roof planned for the cavernous facility could be removable.

The Parc Olympique said in a statement today it favours the option of a fixed roof made out of some form of textile.

But it says the Olympic Installations Board will also look at the possibility of making various sections removable for different events.

The comments come a day after the Quebec government said the stadium will have a new, $250-million roof by 2023.

Quebec will begin asking for proposals in 2018.

Montrealers have been dealing with the stadium’s problematic roof for years. with Radio-Canada reporting in May it had torn 677 times over the last year and 7,453 times over the past 10 years.

The stadium was designed by architect Roger Taillibert and built for the 1976 Summer Games.

It currently doesn’t get much use. The Montreal Impact play there early in the Major League Soccer season, while the Impact and the Montreal Alouettes also use it for playoff games.

The 2015 annual report by the agency that runs the stadium reported the roof cost $454,000 to maintain that year — down from $1.4 million in 2014.

It cannot be used if there is more than three centimetres of snow on the roof, making the venue effectively unusable in winter.

— — —

The stadium and its roof have had a checkered history since the facility was opened in July 1976, although the roof and tower were built only years later. Some examples of the problems that have occurred over the years:

August 1986: Explosions and fire in unfinished tower interrupt Expos game. Nobody injured but game is rescheduled.

April 1987: Kevlar roof completed and installed.

June 1989: Roof lining rips during tractor pull, forcing evacuation of about 8,000 people.

June 1991: Roof tears during wind storm, leaving hole of 30 metres by 15 metres.

September 1991: Fifty-five-tonne beam crashes to the ground, closing stadium for 94 days. No one hurt.

August 1992: Riot erupts at Guns N’ Roses concert when lead singer Axl Rose ends concert after just 55 minutes. Eight of 300-odd police officers called to the scene receive minor injuries amid clashes with rock-and bottle-throwing rioters who use everything from uprooted street lamp to metal barriers to smash windows.

January 1994: Interior wall collapses. No one hurt.

January 1998: Ice damages stadium roof, sending snow and water onto floor and forcing cancellation of two Rolling Stones concerts.

May 1998: Kevlar roof sold for $1 to company specializing in research and development of industrial machinery. Fixed roof installed.

January 1999: Section of roof tears and rains down pieces along with ice and snow on 200 people preparing for an auto show. Five people slightly injured.

November 2006: Stadium’s costs are paid in full. Total cost: $1.47 billion.

April 2012: Concrete slab falls from ceiling of underground parking facility. Nobody injured.
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  #775  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2017, 1:20 PM
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Quebec to spend at least $200 million on new roof for Olympic Stadium
Olympic Installations Board will produce a viability study for work to replace the problem-plagued roof and hopes to have it installed by 2023.
Philip Authier, Montreal Gazette November 10, 2017

QUEBEC — The Couillard government has given the go-ahead to replacing the failing roof on the Olympic Stadium.

Officials said Thursday the decision was made by the Quebec cabinet Oct. 25, but the government was waiting until after the municipal election, last Sunday, to make it public.

The estimated cost of the new roof is between $200 million and $250 million.

An agency that oversees Montreal’s Olympic Stadium said on Friday that parts of the new roof planned for the cavernous facility could be removable. The Parc Olympique said in a statement it favours the option of a fixed roof made out of some form of textile.

But it says the Olympic Installations Board will also look at the possibility of making various sections removable for different events.

The OIB has been authorized to produce a viability study and seek tenders, internationally, for the highly specialized work of replacing the problem-plagued roof. The target to have the new roof installed is 2023.

Quebec wants to look at all the available options, but a fully retractable roof — which was part of French architect Roger Taillibert’s original design — is not going to happen.

Quebec’s harsh winters played havoc with that roof, which was made out of the miracle product of the day — Kevlar — and the government doesn’t want to get burned twice.

This time Quebec is looking for someone able to manufacture “a fixed but flexible,” style roof which can be partially dismantled in some areas on short notice to meet the needs of groups that want to hold events under the sun or stars.

Such stadium roofs exist in Marseille and Japan. Quebec believes such a roof will help transform the stadium into a money maker instead of a money pit.

“We want to see if this is technically feasible and financially viable,” said an official.

Quebec Tourism Minister Julie Boulet, who is responsible for the OIB, was not commenting on the new project Thursday, but has said in the past the government’s main concern is finding an entirely safe option.

On Thursday, however, Premier Philippe Couillard defended the idea of spending more public money on the stadium.

“Do we want to abandon the Olympic Stadium, let it fall into ruin?” Couillard asked, stopping during a tour of a plant in the city of Asbestos in the Townships.

“I don’t think many people would be happy about that. We are going to continue making it (the stadium) one of Montreal’s attractions.

“Desjardins just set up offices in the tower of the stadium and others will follow. but the place cannot be used if we don’t repair the roof,” Couillard added.

The stadium’s roof has been the source of grief for years, with a long litany of rips and tears even with events underway.

The first roof, installed in April 1987, lasted 11 years. The current fixed roof — installed in 1998 — is on its last legs. It was recently revealed that workers at the stadium have had to repair nearly 7,500 tears in the roof since 2007.

It cannot be used if there is more than three centimetres of snow on top of it.

Built for the 1976 Olympic Games, Montrealers have a love-hate relationship with the stadium, which is now more than 40 years old and has been home to such historic events as papal visits as well as major rock concerts.

The costs of construction, $1.47 billion, were not paid off in full until November 2006.

Some argued the stadium should be demolished, but those costs are also astronomically high, leaving the government little choice but to invest some of its new-found surplus money in the operation.
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  #776  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2017, 1:42 PM
elly63 elly63 is online now
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
Quebec to spend at least $200 million on new roof for Olympic Stadium

Such stadium roofs exist in Marseille and Japan.
Is this a possibility? The Bank Dome seems to be the one that closest matches what they are saying, the others don't really seem to fit as far as I can decipher.

Ōita Bank Dome
Oita Bank Dome (Big Eye Stadium)

Video Link


Toyota Stadium

or

Stade Vélodrome
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  #777  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2017, 1:48 PM
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Yowza! A direct comparision, was some Quebec official sitting at home watching this and Bing! light bulb comes on.

Video Link


Naaah, can't see it, I got a little too excited. I would call that retractable, I have no idea what partially "removable" is.
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  #778  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2017, 5:35 PM
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The Oita and Marseille comparisons for flexible rooves are interesting given that neither location experiences winter conditions.

The entire Oita stadium was built for roughly $279MCAD in 2001. I'd be interested in seeing how that roof would handle cold temperatures.

In Sapporo (averaging 597cm of snow/year), the main stadium is a simpler fixed-dome structure:


wikipedia

Montreal has a lower average temperature than Sapporo but about half the average snowfall a year. Toronto gets roughly half of Montreal's average snowfall for its retractable roof stadium.

The construction of Minnesota's new US Bank Stadium came to about $1.1B and they deemed a retractable roof too expensive. Instead they got a pretty sharp looking transparent roof and siding:


wikipedia

TL;dr i'm weary of retractable roof alignments in winter conditions. Montreal will need better comparisons than stadiums in warmer climates IMO. Something like Minnesota's solution could be feasible so long as snow buildup doesn't cause too much stress. Both the Sapporo Dome and the SkyDome are built in a way so that snow buildup does not cause undue stress to the dome structure itself (sloping, etc.). The fix for Olympic Stadium will have to be similar, i'd imagine.
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  #779  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2017, 5:45 PM
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If the curve of the roof is steep enough then snow won't build up. I also believe that Minneapolis US Bank Stadium has heating membranes within the roofing system. This technology should be more realistic now and not as expensive as 10-15 years ago.

My guess is the Minneapolis example will be pursued, comparable climate and it is the largest translucent example we have in North America. The Minneapolis example shows that a fixed roof can still have the benefits of "open air" with sunlight. Returning the Big O to its open roof aesthetic in the interior would help out the facility big time and also open up potential for various future uses.
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  #780  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2017, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
Quebec to spend at least $200 million on new roof for Olympic Stadium

This time Quebec is looking for someone able to manufacture “a fixed but flexible,” style roof which can be partially dismantled in some areas on short notice to meet the needs of groups that want to hold events under the sun or stars.

Such stadium roofs exist in Marseille and Japan.
What is this?
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