Rumor Thread

[MarkDaMan]

^I agree. The information so far has given the average rent prices and which buildings are interested in having the PDC. The PDC does not own the building they're in, and their lease is expiring. I think it would be more appalling if they resigned a new lease in their current building without considering all options.

[MarkDaMan]

^that was my first thought too!

[Eco_jt]

I finally got the minutes from the meeting where we discussed about the USS Ranger possibly locating near the Pearl District. They are shooting for 2011 on Terminal 1 North, so just North of the Fremont Bridge. My curiosity lies with how the new River Plan North fits in with this massive Air Craft Carrier.

From Pearl District Neighborhood Association Minutes (December 2009):

Guest: Peter Ogle – USS Ranger
Peter Ogle discussed the retired aircraft carrier, the USS Ranger and the possibility of Portland (T-1 North) being selected as its home base in 2011. The USS Ranger has been mothballed and stored for years. The ship is currently being stored in Bremerton, WA. The US Ranger will be the largest museum ship in the world. The cost to retrofit the ship from warship to a museum (based on the cost of the Midway) would be $9.3 million dollars and require $200,000 per year in upkeep. Eight of these ships were built; one ship was deliberately sunk for scientific reasons. The pre-World War II constructed ship is 60 thousand tons, 1,000 feet long and has 5.5 acres of flight deck. The cost of caring for the ship is from private donations. Tax dollars are not allocated for this project. The ship is expected to generate tourism in the Pearl District and create jobs 60-full time jobs aboard the ship. An emergency triage hospital is expected to be installed in the ship. If a home is not found for the USS Ranger, it too bill be sunk.

AGREED: A motion was made and seconded by Judy to write a letter of
recommendation to the City, to allow the USS Ranger to be stationed at T-1 North. Pat Lydon abstained from the vote. Motion carried.

[dkealoha]

Originally Posted by Eco_jt

So T1 North would be right next to Riverscape right? I guess if this turns into a "tourist destination" then it would pull people to that area of what will be part of the Pearl someday. Would be a nice walk over there once the Fields/Centennial Mills/pedestrian bridge is all finished.

[PacificNW]

USS Ranger:

[Eco_jt]

I just hope the Riverscape people won't get all NIMBY about this. The ship is HUGE and it could easily tick some nearby residents off.

[tworivers]

Am I the only one who is not remotely excited about having a giant warship (decommissioned or not) parked permanently in Portland's upper harbor? Has there been any talk of the nature of the museum's programming? I am all about increasing tourism, but what is the target demographic for this sort of attraction? If it were some sort of "Peace Museum" that reflected the values of the majority of PDX residents and offered a nuanced approach to the history of war for visitors who want to tour an aircraft carrier, then I might be intrigued by the idea.

[twofiftyfive]

Originally Posted by Eco_jt

The pre-World War II constructed ship

According to Wikipedia, the ship was constructed in 1954 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ranger_(CV-61)

[Eco_jt]

Oh...well I just copy and pasted the minutes...I guess they meant "post-world war II"

Originally Posted by tworivers

Am I the only one who is not remotely excited about having a giant warship (decommissioned or not) parked permanently in Portland's upper harbor? Has there been any talk of the nature of the museum's programming? I am all about increasing tourism, but what is the target demographic for this sort of attraction? If it were some sort of "Peace Museum" that reflected the values of the majority of PDX residents and offered a nuanced approach to the history of war for visitors who want to tour an aircraft carrier, then I might be intrigued by the idea.

I have no idea, but if I were to guess, I would think the museum would be meant to be operated the same as the Midway in San Diego. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Midway_(CV-41)

I can understand some people not being thrilled with a warship in the Willamette, but even though this type of war/museum is not my cup of tea, I think it's great for others who do appreciate that kind of history.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by Eco_jt

I just hope the Riverscape people won't get all NIMBY about this. The ship is HUGE and it could easily tick some nearby residents off.

I wouldnt worry too much about that, I remember when my hometown, Norfolk had a battleship decommissioned and turned into a museum. The condo building was up in arms over this sitting next to their building, but once it got there people seemed to love looking out onto the ship....though this is a little bit different, carriers are not as graceful looking as battleships are.

I personally wouldnt mind having one of these ships docked in the Willamette, but then again, I do enjoy watching Modern Marvels as well, so this would fall in line with that curiosity.

Besides, one shouldnt blame the boat for being a war machine, one should blame the ones in charge that are sending it to war...these ships can also be able to provide aid to nations in need as well. One must not forget that these ships were used for a number of things.

[tworivers]

OK, first of all, even the Midway is enormous in scale -- the Wiki picture of it docking in San Diego is striking. I wonder if there are any renderings that show how the ship might look docked at terminal 1? Where will it be visible from in the city? What will its presence feel like?

I also recognize that vessels like this can be and have been used for non-war-making activities. However, their primary purpose is and has been war. I don't necessarily want to get into a big political discussion about the history/underpinnings/results of modern warfare, but I am curious about how the history will be presented to those who are interested (including me).

I guess, to be honest, my nightmare scenario involves an out-of-scale military rah-rah attraction that specifically appeals to right-wing yahoos who will end up tooling around our bike- and people-clogged central city streets in their RV's. The kind of tourists who will not be especially interested in exploring the aspects of the city that currently attract visitors -- the local flavor, farmers markets, Pittock Mansion, Powells, restaurants, etc etc etc... activities that inject money directly into the local economy. I don't mean to imply that I think that it is going to be like this, or paint an overly black-and-white demographic picture, just that when I think about the potential negatives, that's pretty much what it looks like. According to Wiki, almost 900,000 people visited the Midway in its first year. Granted, SD is a military town, but even if this ship attracts half that number every year, I wonder where they are going to park (assuming, hopefully wrongly, that the majority of them will be arriving by car) and how traffic patterns will be affected.

[tworivers]

http://www.ussranger.org

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ranger_%28CVA-61%29

[spark317]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

I wouldnt worry too much about that, I remember when my hometown, Norfolk had a battleship decommissioned and turned into a museum. The condo building was up in arms over this sitting next to their building, but once it got there people seemed to love looking out onto the ship....though this is a little bit different, carriers are not as graceful looking as battleships are..

USS Wisconsin, with condos on the left and Nauticus - The National Maritime Center and Half Moone Cruise Terminal (under construction in this photo) to the right.



photo source: www.newmediasystems.net

[tworivers]

I wonder what the chances are of PDX luring cruise ships up the Willamette? They already stop regularly at Astoria.

[bvpcvm]

Originally Posted by tworivers

I guess, to be honest, my nightmare scenario involves an out-of-scale military rah-rah attraction that specifically appeals to right-wing yahoos who will end up tooling around our bike- and people-clogged central city streets in their RV's. The kind of tourists who will not be especially interested in exploring the aspects of the city that currently attract visitors -- the local flavor, farmers markets, Pittock Mansion, Powells, restaurants, etc etc etc...

Nicely put, and a big concern of mine as well. I think we can confidently say that the people interested in this thing probably don't overlap much with the people who would be interested in the organic market at Centennial Mills. Potential result: two totally different demographics looking for parking. (Or, one demographic looking desperately for parking, the other happily riding the streetcar.)

[scleeb]

Originally Posted by tworivers

OK, first of all, even the Midway is enormous in scale -- the Wiki picture of it docking in San Diego is striking. I wonder if there are any renderings that show how the ship might look docked at terminal 1? Where will it be visible from in the city? What will its presence feel like?

I also recognize that vessels like this can be and have been used for non-war-making activities. However, their primary purpose is and has been war. I don't necessarily want to get into a big political discussion about the history/underpinnings/results of modern warfare, but I am curious about how the history will be presented to those who are interested (including me).

I guess, to be honest, my nightmare scenario involves an out-of-scale military rah-rah attraction that specifically appeals to right-wing yahoos who will end up tooling around our bike- and people-clogged central city streets in their RV's. The kind of tourists who will not be especially interested in exploring the aspects of the city that currently attract visitors -- the local flavor, farmers markets, Pittock Mansion, Powells, restaurants, etc etc etc... activities that inject money directly into the local economy. I don't mean to imply that I think that it is going to be like this, or paint an overly black-and-white demographic picture, just that when I think about the potential negatives, that's pretty much what it looks like. According to Wiki, almost 900,000 people visited the Midway in its first year. Granted, SD is a military town, but even if this ship attracts half that number every year, I wonder where they are going to park (assuming, hopefully wrongly, that the majority of them will be arriving by car) and how traffic patterns will be affected.

"military rah-rah attraction that specifically appeals to right-wing yahoos"

Are you kidding me???? Why would you say that??? I am incredibly offended by that comment. Do you see a lot of these types of people at the USS Iowa in Pearl Harbor? How about the Midway in San Diego or the Intrepid in New York City? Let's bring it closer to home. Do you see a lot of these types of people at the Air Museums in McMinnville or Tillamook? Of course not. What you do see at these venues are families, air enthusiasts, veterans, history buffs, and the like.

Would you be bothered if our bike filled streets were visited upon by the wives, mothers, sons and daughters of the men whom died serving aboard the USS Ranger?

Whom are the "Militaristic right wing yahoos" exactly that you are referring to? Current or former US servicemen and women? Republicans? Tea-baggers? Last time I checked this was a free country, and while these folks may be objectionable to you, they are entitled to visit and live in our fair city, just the same as you and me. I can see objections to locating this ship to Portland on aesthetic or political grounds, but attacking or US Service Personnel and their supporters is WAY, WAY, WAY out of bounds!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Unfortunately for you, yours sucks.

[urbanlife]

thanks for posting the Norfolk picture Spark317, I wasnt even thinking of looking for one to post in here.

And I have to agree with scleeb on this one, the people that you can expect to visit this will be the same people that you expect to show up to OMSI, new gallery openings at the Portland Art Museum, that show up to Blazers games, that are fans of museums in general.

Ships like this have a huge attraction to anyone seeking knowledge of history or needing an activity for the kids.

Saying a ship will bring in the crazy Republicans and their giant SUVs would be like saying the Chinese Garden brings in all the communists and America haters.

[PacificNW]

↑↑ scleeb: Even though this is straying off the subject of the thread: How do you feel about gays and lesbians serving openly in the U.S. Armed Forces? I am seriously interested in your opinion.

[scleeb]

Originally Posted by PacificNW

↑↑ scleeb: Even though this is off the subject of the thread, but since you have such strong feelings, how do you feel about gays and lesbians serving openly in the U.S. Armed Forces? I am seriously interested in your opinion.

I've been a vocal opponent of "don't ask, don't tell' since day one. I support anyone whom chooses a life service to our country, regardless of race, gender, religion or sexual preference.

And let’s not kid ourselves, we all know gay men served and died aboard the USS Ranger as well. They too deserve our utmost respect for their sacrifice.

While we are at it, let's acknowledge the liberal Democrats, socialists, pacifists, and other non "Militaristic Right Wing Yahoos" who undoubtedly served aboard the USS Ranger and would love to see the historic ship they sailed upon preserved.

My post wasn’t about politics. It was about basic respect for our fellow Americans.

[PacificNW]

↑↑ Thanks!