SHANGHAI | Shanghai Tower / 上海中心大厦 | 2,073 FT / 632 M | 128 FLOORS

[Crolo]

It's a nice Building. What I don't understand is that a majority of the people in china are very poor and China still can afford to build lots of Skyscrapers.

[shakman]

Originally Posted by Crolo

It's a nice Building. What I don't understand is that a majority of the people in china are very poor and China still can afford to build lots of Skyscrapers.

China has the world's second largest economy... ...China has a lot of spending power.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Crolo

It's a nice Building. What I don't understand is that a majority of the people in china are very poor and China still can afford to build lots of Skyscrapers.

Supply and demand .
Aside from that , it's considerably cheaper to build in China than in the developed world . Well , for something like the Shanghai Tower , costs are probably a lot higher than normal but otherwise , ...

[Onn]

No, it dosen't make sense...I wish people would wake up and smell the coffee. This whole thing has gone way out of control.

[giallo]

Thanks for the warning, Onn. I'll be sure to write Shanghai city council, the mayor and the Chinese government about your concern.

[The Chemist]

Onn's like that guy who keeps predicting the end of the world, and when it doesn't come true on the date he's picked he chooses another one. For some reason it seems like he's personally offended by China's ever-growing economy, as though it's an affront to him personally.

[Alliance]

^^^ "ever-growing" is the glaring problem in your statement. No economy ever has been "ever-growing" forever. The world bank, and even some Chinese economists have cautioned that there is a property bubble and China, and its not out of the question that it might collapse. The Chinese government said its "worried, citing 'excessively rising house prices' in some cities, said it will monitor capital flows to 'stop overseas speculative funds from jeopardizing China's property market.'" Source. Average housing prices have tripled in the past 5 years. So saying that China has a housing bubble and that it may collapse is not some conspiracy theory.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Alliance

^^^ "ever-growing" is the glaring problem in your statement. No economy ever has been "ever-growing" forever. The world bank, and even some Chinese economists have cautioned that there is a property bubble and China, and its not out of the question that it might collapse. The Chinese government said its "worried, citing 'excessively rising house prices' in some cities, said it will monitor capital flows to 'stop overseas speculative funds from jeopardizing China's property market.'" Source. Average housing prices have tripled in the past 5 years. So saying that China has a housing bubble and that it may collapse is not some conspiracy theory.

I don't disagree with you. However, there's a difference between believing there's a real estate bubble that will have an adjustment at some point in the not too distant future and believing that the entire Chinese economy is a sham and a house of cards that's going to collapse at any time.

[Onn]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

I don't disagree with you. However, there's a difference between believing there's a real estate bubble that will have an adjustment at some point in the not too distant future and believing that the entire Chinese economy is a sham and a house of cards that's going to collapse at any time.

Well there either has to be a earth shattering bubble to correct things or the entire economy will decay over a longer peroid of time. Nothing can defy market fundementals.

[C.Lan]

Fact is, something that changes a crisis is something that works along graduated lines, or at least that's what i'd go for...

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Alliance

^^^ "ever-growing" is the glaring problem in your statement. No economy ever has been "ever-growing" forever. The world bank, and even some Chinese economists have cautioned that there is a property bubble and China, and its not out of the question that it might collapse. The Chinese government said its "worried, citing 'excessively rising house prices' in some cities, said it will monitor capital flows to 'stop overseas speculative funds from jeopardizing China's property market.'" Source. Average housing prices have tripled in the past 5 years. So saying that China has a housing bubble and that it may collapse is not some conspiracy theory.

No , it's true that it's not some conspiracy theory . Property prices have indeed risen quite a bit over the past half decade .
That's also why Beijing introduced measures to combat the bubble . If you're paying attention however , then you've also noticed that the spikes were much more pronounced in cities like Beijing and Shanghai . The smaller the center , the smaller the increases . It's basically an urban problem in an overwhelmingly rural country . In other words , while prices have indeed shot up beyond what one would normally expect (due to a form of speculation) the market is stabilizing and the problem has been contained .

A collapse is pretty much not going to happen any time soon . The Chinese economy barely registered a bump while the U.S. has been mired in economic turmoil for a few years now . The law of diminishing returns guarantees that economic expansion will not continue forever but China is a market that remains largely untapped and undeveloped . That's a very important factor to remember when making predictions about the future of Chinese economic growth .

P.S. : Ever-growing is not the same as "forever-growing" . It's a statement that includes the past right up until the present but does not include the future necessarily .

[Onn]

Prices are wayyy to high, and are still rising. Yes the Chinese government tried to apply the breaks but someone's cut the break cord. This is from early 2010, nothing's changed since then.


http://jutiagroup.com/20100721-china...lobal-economy/

[DigitalNinja]

Economists are the biggest speculators in the world. There are to many variables to just come out and say. "The Chinese economy is going to collapse China is doomed, they shouldn't build anything!"

Face it Onn, the only way you'll be right is if you keep sprouting your BS for the next 30-50 years, of course there will be a recession, it's how things work. Countries come back out of them though.

Also, it is impossible to compare China to the US or even Japan for that matter. The level of rural people living in China is too great to use other countries for a comparison. What you're seeing the increase on is the major urban centers, where yes people do earn more, if you are going to compare something find stats for the GDP of the urban centers and their housing prices. You will find that it is a low lower % increase.

[bbeliko]

Bubble or not at least this is one classy and gorgeous looking building, unlike those things going up in Dubai.

[Aleks]

well... it's nice to read this conversation... again...

but let's narrow the conversation to the aesthetics, engineering, and other related subjects to this specific building. i know the chinese real estate talk is related, but lets keep it out of this thread.

if anyone wants to start a conversation about china's real estate bubble and whatnot please do so in the City Discussions section. Further posts on the subject in this thread will be deleted.

[phoenixboi08]

Anyways, I went to the city urban planning exhibition center the other day for the first time. Really enjoyed it. But I also realized I genuinely have no idea how tall anything is here. I remember looking at the WFC one day after I'd been here for several months and thinking "It's not THAT tall.
Which leads me to my actual question, and back to the thread topic, has the height of the Shanghai Tower been set in stone, or is there any reason to believe they may adjust it? Could they hypothetically at this point?

[The Chemist]

^The height of the SWFC was set before construction and didn't change once construction resumed in 2005 (only the shape of the opening at the top changed). I don't expect the height of Shanghai Tower will change during construction either.

[phoenixboi08]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

^The height of the SWFC was set before construction and didn't change once construction resumed in 2005 (only the shape of the opening at the top changed). I don't expect the height of Shanghai Tower will change during construction either.

Sorry, that question was framed strangely...I've just noticed, with some buildings, from time to time the developer can't seem to settle on a specific height. But even in that instance, it's usually just a matter of a few dozen feet (100 at the most). Maybe a random query, but anything to get back on topic I guess...

[KevinFromTexas]

Stick to the topic of the construction of this building. If you want to discuss China's economy, find a good article on it, and post it here:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/foru...php?forumid=14

[giallo]

From Tuesday