We can learn from history Rail-based transit will work in the Fraser Valley

[Metro-One]

So is this inter-urban the same commuter train mentioned in another thread, where they used the 2010 machine to help boost its publicity?

[officedweller]

Yeah, that's right.
To start, the trains could be like Ottawa's O-Train - a Diesel Multiple Unit (DMU) type of train - i.e. a two-car diesel powered light rail vehicle.
The problem with those vehicles is that they are not crash-rated to run on the same tracks at the same times of day as diesel freight trains (some system like the San Diego Sprinter and the River Line in New Jersey restrict freight train traffic to late night, which means the passenger service shuts early.)

Ottawa O-Train:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_O-Train

New Jersey River Line:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_L...ersey_Transit)

See also the San Diego Sprinter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPRINTER

The official map here shows the extent of double track and single track.
http://www.gonctd.com/sprinter_intro.htm

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

So is this inter-urban the same commuter train mentioned in another thread, where they used the 2010 machine to help boost its publicity?

The interurban is more about connecting smaller town centres to each other... a Chilliwack resident going to school at Kwantlen, a Surrey resident working in Langley, University of Fraser Valley students going to downtown Vancouver Friday after class for pub crawl.

The interurban would have running speeds of 60-80km/h and an average speed of around 40km/h so it is not as fast as a commuter train like the West Coast Express with running speeds of up to 150km/h (if the track is designed for those speeds... I think the WCE goes 115km/h tops between Mission and Port Haney) and average speed of 60km/h, but it's better to have a community oriented transit system first like the Interurban as a backbone before getting a commuter oriented transit system like commuter rail. The interurban tracks are already there linking Chilliwack, Abby, Langley, Cloverdale, Newton, Strawberry Hill, and Scott Road Station, a commuter train down TransCanada would require significant capital funds although likely way cheaper and way faster than skytrain.

[Metro-One]

Well then lets get the inter-urban going. That would be a massive improvement to our system.

having this along with the C-line and Evergreen sky-train lines all completed within 4 to 5 years (and possibly phase 0 completed of the Vancouver street car) along with the existing WCE and sky-train network would possibly give Metro-Vancouver the most extensive train system in Canada (per capita). Not to mention the possible M-line extension to UBC. Not bad for being the last major city to build a train network.

[fever]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The interurban would have running speeds of 60-80km/h and an average speed of around 40km/h so it is not as fast as a commuter train like the West Coast Express with running speeds of up to 150km/h (if the track is designed for those speeds... I think the WCE goes 115km/h tops between Mission and Port Haney) and average speed of 60km/h, but it's better to have a community oriented transit system first like the Interurban as a backbone before getting a commuter oriented transit system like commuter rail. The interurban tracks are already there linking Chilliwack, Abby, Langley, Cloverdale, Newton, Strawberry Hill, and Scott Road Station, a commuter train down TransCanada would require significant capital funds although likely way cheaper and way faster than skytrain.

It depends on the class of track used and noise considerations, but the operating speed of the dmu that od mentioned is much higher than 80 km/h. This is especially important for the longer distance links through farmland. Acceleration is more important in urban settings where stations are closer together. Bombardier Talent dmu's, like the one's used in Ottawa, have a maximum speed of 120 km/h (Norwegian version) or 140 km/h (German version) http://www.bombardier.com/en/transpo...1260d80010343# . I think Ottawa uses a different version, but it doesn't operate near the maximum speed anyway due to noise considerations and because it's a trial that uses existing track with virtually no improvements made.

The evaluation report of the O-train is here btw http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa...P-TRN-0012.htm

A couple more thoughts... I did a regression analysis on the timetable of the WCE a few weeks ago and its operating speed is indeed 110 km/h. I also calculated its stop/dwell/start time, in other words the total time it takes to add a station to the line. You could find the results somewhere in another thread. One thing I was wondering is what the dwell time is typically. That way I can extract a combined accel/decel time.

[ssiguy]

I can definatly see using the line for LRT for the Langley/Newton/Delta corridors but only as a regular LRT not as a heavy rail commuter service.
It would take forever for someone going to downtown.

Just add HOV/bus-only lanes on HWY#10 from Chilliwack all the way to the PortMann. There could be EXPRESS buses from Chill/Abb/Alder/Lang/Guilf and just take the freeway. It would be FAR cheaper, more convient, faster, more direct, and more comfortable.
Vancouver already has this type of service..........351 Cresent Beach/Waterfront. It is a very fast, now frequent service using HOV and is supplimented by other rush-hour express routes. If people had to go up to the King George SkyTrain station then everyone would drive. There is no reason why this can't be done to those areas. It may not be ribbon cutting material which Translink and the province love but it is a far superior alternative.
For people coming from Newton/72nd Ave going downtown and/or Richmond/YVR they shoul also have bus-only lanes on both ends of the AlexFraser with cue jumpers. Again, too easy for Translink.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by fever

A couple more thoughts... I did a regression analysis on the timetable of the WCE a few weeks ago and its operating speed is indeed 110 km/h. I also calculated its stop/dwell/start time, in other words the total time it takes to add a station to the line. You could find the results somewhere in another thread. One thing I was wondering is what the dwell time is typically. That way I can extract a combined accel/decel time.

I'm going to be using the West Coast Express again in December when I take a job downtown, and I live in Mission. I have a GPS dongle and my computer I can use to chart the speed of the train the entire way as the train definitely does not go more than 90km/h between Port Haney and Port Moody andI'm guessing 60km/h from Port Moody to Waterfront. I would say average dwell time is about 45 seconds?

As for the Interurban... we're pushing the people in power to get this in fast but so far only the local governments are on board. Falcon and the BC Government aren't budging.

[Hong Kongese]

Share Research lags on valley rail vision

By Jeff Nagel

Published: November 12, 2008 5:00 PM
Updated: November 12, 2008 5:09 PM

Demands for light rail to the Fraser Valley should wait for the results of a provincial government-led study into long-range transit improvements there, says one key player.

Southern Railway of B.C. runs freight trains on the old Interurban rail corridor through Surrey that advocates see as a fast and cheap route that could once again provide rapid transit to Langley and points east.

Southern president Frank Butzelaar said he has an open mind toward a rail transit revival, but says it depends on Victoria's wishes.

"We are open to the concept," he said. "It really requires that the province comes to us and says 'Look, this is something we're interested in.'

"To date, that hasn't happened."

The province is expected to soon pick a consultant to carry out a five-part strategic review of transit in the valley.

Butzelaar hoped that will help the province decide what type of transit upgrades to pursue.

Light rail advocates fear Victoria's interest is only lukewarm.

Work was to have started by September on the new studies.

But critics say there's now little chance any findings will be ready before the provincial election next May, and the final document may not be ready until well after the original target date of December, 2009.

"That is dreamland now," said Surrey rail advocate Peter Holt. "They have no chance of meeting their timeline. I think they are in disarray."

He said the government needs to catch up to the rising tide of public support for light rail that has played out in civic election campaigns across the region.

Numerous candidates throughout the South of Fraser area have embraced light rail and pledged to fight for it.

"I think the ball is rolling," Holt said.

Abbotsford city council has backed a strategy to press for light rail that includes forming a committee of mayors and councillors from Abbotsford to Surrey.

Both Abbotsford and Surrey are also considering launching light rail demonstration projects, ideally to be on track by the 2010 Olympics.

Rail for the Valley spokesman John Buker said local politicians from Delta to Chilliwack have jumped aboard the light rail push.

"It's very positive," he said, adding advocates need to keep pushing as the provincial election gets closer to make inroads in Victoria.

"So far the provincial government has been dragging its feet," he said. "It needs to turn that around or there's going to be a very interesting election out in the valley."