Petition: Bring the NBA back to Vancouver

[logan5]

Originally Posted by jhausner

So that is over 8 times the attendance just to reach the bottom of the MLB in attendance over Vancouver at its peak in 2013. To do that you need a stadium, infrastructure, and remember an MLB team's payroll would jump drastically.

As a side note, the owner of the Vancouver Canadians himself said even AAA baseball would have a difficult time in Vancouver. If AAA in his eyes, someone who I'd claim is an expert in running a baseball team, would be a difficult thing to make money with or a go of it, MLB would have no chance. This isn't baseball country as much as baseball fans would like to think.

If the owner of the Canadians actually said that, he is pretty stupid. The salaries of minor league players are paid by the parent major league club by the way, so a AAA club in Vancouver would be quite profitable. We just need a proper stadium.

Originally Posted by phesto

The population argument also holds true for the NBA to some extent.

There are a few reason I think the business case is far more difficult for MLB in relation to the cities you listed, irrespective of population trends.

For one, baseball is deeply rooted in the culture of most areas of the U.S. and most of those franchises, even in smaller markets are 40+ years old and are steeped in the culture of the City and corporate support.

Although we don't have a major league team, this region produces world class baseball players because we have an excellent youth baseball program... a program that represents Canada at the Little League World Series almost every year, and there are softball leagues everywhere as well. I think a strong argument could be made that baseball is just as deeply rooted in Vancouver as it is in most American cities.

When you look at the smaller markets like Milwaukee (which is a lot smaller than Vancouver), Baltimore, Pittsburgh, the key to their success is an excellent game day and stadium experience. A waterfront stadium in Vancouver with historic Gastown close by would provide a game day experience second to none. The problem is, nobody is likely to spend the hundreds of millions to build such a venue. The only realistic route I see is a AAA stadium that is upgrade-able to MLB standards.

[jlousa]

I know the owner of the Canadians, and I take your opinion that he's pretty stupid as preposterous. The numbers speak for themselves. The parent team does not pay for all players salaries, just some. They also do no cover operating expenses of the team. There aren't enough people in the seats in spring to pay the teams bills, opening the stadium costs money as does traveling to other cities.
Trust me he'd love to have a AAA team if the numbers worked. One day they might, but not now.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I know the owner of the Canadians, and I take your opinion that he's pretty stupid as preposterous. The numbers speak for themselves. The parent team does not pay for all players salaries, just some. They also do no cover operating expenses of the team. There aren't enough people in the seats in spring to pay the teams bills, opening the stadium costs money as does traveling to other cities.
Trust me he'd love to have a AAA team if the numbers worked. One day they might, but not now.

Q. What do Minor League players earn?

A. Minor League Baseball player contracts are handled by the Major League Baseball office.

http://www.milb.com/milb/info/faq.jsp?mc=business#5

The top AAA teams are worth far more than any CFL team. AAA team in a large market in Vancouver would immediately be the 2nd most valuable franchise in the city (with a top notch venue). If you manage the stadium smartly, you should be able to make a good profit.

The MLB clubs are already paying most of the costs – all minor league player and coaching costs are picked up by the affiliated MLB team, along with half the cost of bats and balls...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmi...aluable-teams/

The issue for AAA baseball is a suitable stadium, not fan support. I wonder what the owner actually said with regards to AAA, because saying it would have a hard time in Vancouver makes no sense.

http://www.straight.com/blogra/41769...ecutive-season

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I know the owner of the Canadians, and I take your opinion that he's pretty stupid as preposterous. Trust me he'd love to have a AAA team if the numbers worked.

Triple-A baseball flourished for 22-straight seasons in Vancouver, from 1978 to 1999.

After winning the Triple-A World Series in 1999, the new American ownership moved the Vancouver Canadians to Sacramento where a brand-new, $47 million, 14-thousand seat stadium awaited them.

The Canadians were moved because the new, state-of-the-art stadium in Sacramento made much greater economic sense than the smaller, anitquated Nat Bailey, not because there was a lack of support.

[logan5]

Just to add... this article pegs the BC Lions franchise value at the same level as the lowly single A Canadians - 7.5 million.

Yet it is that last category of business valuation which will surprise many casual observers, because for all intents and purposes, the Lions are in a three-way tie for second-place with the hugely-successful hockey Giants and baseball’s Canadians. Our sport business panel – which was joined by local sport franchise executives and a strong contingent of sports and business media in the voting – concluded there is not much to choose between the Lions, Giants and Canadians in terms of resale value.

http://www.thesportmarket.biz/columns/2009/oct17.htm

[jlousa]

*l* Logan are you trying to prove me wrong? re-read what I wrote. The parent team does not pay all the players salaries. They only pay the ones under contract with the parent team. Not all the players are under contract with the parent team, there are other players on teams. They do not pay for stadium costs nor travel expenses. Those must come from the gate.
Rain outs were a common occurrence when we held Triple A they are a major expense for the team and inconvenience for fans. Even the threat of a rain out keeps fans out of the seats.
I'd love to see Triple A return, and I think it could be possible, the numbers just mean it will not be a profitable endevour most years and it'd have to be more for the love the game then for money.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by jlousa

*l* Logan are you trying to prove me wrong

Just presenting some information. The idea that the C's owner doesn't want AAA baseball doesn't make sense. The fact that the ultra low profile C's have the same valuation as the much higher profile Lions and Giants must say something.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/31071...-aaa-baseball/

[Vancity]

Would love to see MLB come to the city - I guess it's not happening soon, but 20-25 years into the future? I could possibly see it happening, especially if the owners of the single A Canadians continue to cultivate fan support, and interest. I can see Vancouver getting eventually double A baseball here in this city - surely we can support that.

I find it difficult to believe that the owners of the Canadians doesn't believe Triple A baseball would work, when it has been in the city for 22 years as someone posted here, and flourished. Either that statement was made in ignorance, or the owner has no idea what he's talking about.

As for the NBA. I love hockey. I love pro ball. I'd love to cheer on for another pro basketball team here in VAN. I'm hoping that Nash and his contacts, make it happen, once he retires from playing in the NBA. He'd be a great GM for a new franchise here. Pro ball can flourish here, I believe it can. When we had the worse team in the NBA for six seasons here, people kept on coming out, not because they were stupid, but because they were fans, and they believed that better days were ahead.

Again, I think NBA WILL eventually make it's return to Van with Nash spearheading that. MLB, I'm not so certain, simply because you'll need an owner(s) who would also be willing to build a brand new stadium....who would be willing to do that?

[jlousa]

*l* I can't believe some are implying that the owner of the Cs doesn't know the numbers. Anyways enjoy, let me know when we get a Triple A team, we can have a SSP:meet and I'll buy everyone that shows up a hotdog.

[phesto]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

First of all, out the 30 MLB teams, only 16 had a total attendance of 2,500,000 or more in 2013. In fact, eight teams had a total attendance between 1.5 million and 1.8 million.

So, your requirement of 2.5 million is invalid.

As I pointed out, Vancouver (which continues to grow rapidly everyday) already has a larger metro population than Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Kansas City and Milwaukee, and has a metro population that will surpass Denver, Baltimore and St. Petersburg in the near future.

Of these eight teams, four support 3 or more major league sports (in addition to numerous minor league sports):

Pittsburgh supports MLB, NHL and NFL.
Cleveland supports MLB, NBA and NFL.
Kansas City supports MLB, MLS and NFL.
Denver supports MLB, NHL, NBA, MLS and NFL.

There may be valid reasons why MLB will not come to Vancouver. But the argument that Vancouver's population is too small is demonstrably false.

Yeah, as I stated, Vancouver's population isn't really the issue; it's the host of others.

The 2,500,000 mark was the median attendance for 2013, and while arbitrary, it certainly isn't invalid. If you couldn't demonstrate that you could ever be in the top half of the league in attendance in even the most optimistic scenario, why would the league grant a franchise here?

Hell, it took Toronto $120 Million just to barely crack into the top half of the league in attendance last season after struggling in the bottom quartile for over 15 years. And they were World Series champions!

[spm2013]

Are there any other sports leagues that we want to bring to Vancouver that will never ever come?

Let's see lots of people play tennis in Vancouver, we need an ATP event. Umm, I saw some people sailing so an America's Cup stop. And finally I see lots of people driving every day so an F1 event down at the old Concord Pacific site near Expo. Yes, for Meggs I will bring a real bicycle race to the city. Tour De France: Vancouver Edition.

[McPaul]

Signed. Thanks! We need more pro sports in this town.

I would also sign a petition preventing the nbl from ever coming here. Hate baseball.

[Thousands Wouldn't]

Originally Posted by theKB

wouldn't another stadium need to be built to house an MLB team?

NBA is definitely on the radar but I don't think it will happen any time soon.

Previous to the reno BC Place was designed to accommodate a baseball diamond.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

First of all, out the 30 MLB teams, only 16 had a total attendance of 2,500,000 or more in 2013. In fact, eight teams had a total attendance between 1.5 million and 1.8 million.

So, your requirement of 2.5 million is invalid.

As I pointed out, Vancouver (which continues to grow rapidly everyday) already has a larger metro population than Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Kansas City and Milwaukee, and has a metro population that will surpass Denver, Baltimore and St. Petersburg in the near future.

Of these eight teams, four support 3 or more major league sports (in addition to numerous minor league sports):

Pittsburgh supports MLB, NHL and NFL.
Cleveland supports MLB, NBA and NFL.
Kansas City supports MLB, MLS and NFL.
Denver supports MLB, NHL, NBA, MLS and NFL.

There may be valid reasons why MLB will not come to Vancouver. But the argument that Vancouver's population is too small is demonstrably false.

...not to mention that figures for the Canadians were brought up who #1) the Canadians play in the short season single a ball that has FAR fewer games than MLB & 2) The Canadians Play in a minor league ballpark that even if it sold out every last seat every game would not come close to even drawing 220,0000 fans.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by logan5

Just presenting some information. The idea that the C's owner doesn't want AAA baseball doesn't make sense. The fact that the ultra low profile C's have the same valuation as the much higher profile Lions and Giants must say something.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/31071...-aaa-baseball/

The C's owner has actually said in the past that he would be okay with bringing in AAA ball back to Vancouver, but that single A is just fine with him. But without a new ballpark for the team to play in, AAA is just a dream.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by jlousa

*l* Logan are you trying to prove me wrong? re-read what I wrote. The parent team does not pay all the players salaries. They only pay the ones under contract with the parent team. Not all the players are under contract with the parent team, there are other players on teams. They do not pay for stadium costs nor travel expenses. Those must come from the gate.

He can re-read it as many times as he wants but it still wouldn't make it any more right. ALL players playing in the Pacific Coast League (the league where the Canadians played), must by terms of the Player Development Contract, be & PAID by the parent MLB team. In fact the parent club is the one who signs the players and have complete control over rosters. Parent clubs also sign and pay coaches, trainers and provide some equipment. (I believe they split the coasts on that last one).

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by spm2013

Are there any other sports leagues that we want to bring to Vancouver that will never ever come?

Let's see lots of people play tennis in Vancouver, we need an ATP event. Umm, I saw some people sailing so an America's Cup stop. And finally I see lots of people driving every day so an F1 event down at the old Concord Pacific site near Expo. Yes, for Meggs I will bring a real bicycle race to the city. Tour De France: Vancouver Edition.

Would love for an ATP tour to be here in Van, too. How great would that be?

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by McPaul

Signed. Thanks! We need more pro sports in this town.

I would also sign a petition preventing the nbl from ever coming here. Hate baseball.

Definitely need more pro sports in this city. We have such a gorgeous city, but barely on the map in terms of professional sports franchises.

The CFL is really limited to within Canada, anyone outside of the country would barely know what the CFL is about, let alone someone from Asian or Europe. The NBA is recognized globally (well....just about) - Kobe, LeBron, Wade, etc.

Baseball I'd say is a recognizable sport in Asia, and in Europe too. Obviously not as strong as basketball. Soccer the most recognizable sport, and we're in the top tier league, at least in North America.

The NBA would be the next logical sports franchise to come to Vancouver. MLB would be nice, but ain't going to happen for a while. and the NFL may never come to Van in our lifetime.

[spm2013]

I could see a one-time event ala Indy working with just the random public that even have a passing interest in a sport possibly attending. Quite a different proposition to 81 MLB home games

Here's the old thread about it:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=193060

[NetMapel]

Can we steal Formula 1 from Montreal please ?