Hess Village

[rousseau]

"Whistling" Judge?

[raisethehammer]

Lol....Spec...they probably don't know that the Augusta Pub strip exists.
Funny how Augusta has now taken over Hess' old spot. I'd love to see some of the parking lots on Augusta infilled with mixed-use condos and pub/patios at the streetfront.
Alas, this is Hamilton though...parking lots are like the Holy Grail.

[FairHamilton]

I guess puke only is now the sign of a successful area. Oh joy...........

[the dude]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

Sleek and polished isn't necessarily my scene--but I'm happy to see the Village thriving. It was always the place "with potential" in the city, and it's finally starting to live up to that. Onward and upward. Expansion outward--down George toward Bay, and the possible twin anchors of a live entertainment venue in the west and a hotel on the HMP site in the east could make Hess the rival of districts in far larger cities.

I feel bad for Earl's Court--his was the last holdout from Hess' first era as a chi-chi street of dress shops and art galleries. Hosing off vomit would be a bummer--but RTH is right, he could very well be dealing with condoms and syringes too. Hope he's successful wherever he goes.

dammit all anyway, i actually agree with you. as far as george street is concerned, its potential isn't even close to being realised. IF a hotel pops up at the hmp site then the rest should take care of itself...in time.

[highwater]

Let's cut Daniels some slack. As a former resident of Sterling St., I am depressingly familiar with the joys of hosing vomit and urine off porches and driveways (unlike several of our neighbours, we were lucky enough to avoid the joys of human excrement). Unlike syringes and condoms, which are the detritus of the downtrodden, the vomit, urine, and feces in Hess and Westdale are left behind by privileged young adults, many of whom have come in from the much reviled 'burbs and see these neighbourhoods as their personal playgrounds, so it's a little harder to be tolerant.

I don't blame Daniels for leaving, I'm amazed he held out as long as he did. When I was growing up in Oakville, Hess was a shopping destination and we would visit often. It's never healthy to see a neighbourhood become a monoculture. I was also saddened to read the Spec article and realize the loss of a vibrant live music scene.

Sounds like things are a little hopeful though, with some businesses trying to appeal to a broader demographic. When I moved from Toronto to St. Catharines in my late twenties, I couldn't get over how we were always the oldest people whenever we went out. There was no nightlife for anyone over the age of 25. It was like they all married young, had babies, and never got off the couch again. I missed the Toronto scene where there was always a healthy mix of ages at the clubs (the good ones anyway, how I miss the 'Boo!). I think it's a sign of a sophisticated city when older married types want to get out just as much as the younger ones.

[raisethehammer]

yea, I'm not hearbroken about the loss of live music in the village....downtown, corktown, augusta st have all picked up the slack.
I like where Hess is heading...better than a bunch of crappy bars with 18 year olds screaming all night.

[fastcarsfreedom]

It is always the great debate when areas start to thrive as "entertainment" districts--particularly when residential areas are nearby. This is a huge issue locally where the entertainment district comprises most of what was the traditional downtown retail district. Nearby residents of varying economic strata are constantly fighting the battle of litter, vommit and vandalism, yet, the influx of business--no matter it's source, generates jobs, profits and spin-off business in an area that would otherwise be completely comatose after dark.

I also appreciate the frustration at the fact that so many of the alleged culprits are folks driving in from other areas to treat the neighborhood as a "playground". Now, for many years growing up, I was that kid...meaning, I came in from the exurbs and partied in the city. To be clear, I never released any bodily substance on anyone's street, or littered--the worst I probably did was spit chewing tobacco onto the sidewalk. The point is--the behavior of the few is inacceptable, while the behavior of the many (bringing dollars from outside the city to spend at in-town establishments) is golden.\

Broader demographic appeal is excellent news--I side with highwater on that issue. On occassion, establishments have opened up here with the intent of appealing to a broader (as in, older) audience...some, amusingly, try to appeal to the "25+" crowd--meaning everyone is between 24 and 26 and is dressed entirely in black--but for the most part these places have inevitably found favor with the kiddie crowd and been completely over-run with 19 year olds. Coming from anglo-irish roots, I find the pub concept pretty acceptable--I went prematurely gray, so I fit in fine there--but for most of the entertainment-oriented bars locally, my wife and I would be far-and-away the oldest people there.

Since I live in the burbs--and most people here like to ridicule that in various degrees of severity--I thought you'd enjoy something that even I find amusing...the kids in my immediate area--I mean, basically 19 year olds--have taken to walking over to Boston Pizza to drink. Saves them the trip downtown I guess, and Applebee's closes at midnight.

[SteelTown]

This is why it's important we build this parking structure at Main between Hess and Caroline so that party goers don't park into neighbourhoods or that very popular parking spot at Premier Fitness. Doing this they won't be walking into neighbourhoods making loud nosies or vomting, etc.

[raisethehammer]

that'll be a great smelling parking garage at 2am Sunday mornings.

[SteelTown]

Thank goodness a private company wants to build and maintain the parking structure instead of the city.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

On occassion, establishments have opened up here with the intent of appealing to a broader (as in, older) audience...some, amusingly, try to appeal to the "25+" crowd--meaning everyone is between 24 and 26 and is dressed entirely in black--but for the most part these places have inevitably found favor with the kiddie crowd and been completely over-run with 19 year olds.

I think that you'd find the same thing in Hess. When they opened, places like Koi and Sizzle had a fairly strict dress code and a 23+ policy in service of mature-market options and a diverse clientele, but two years later I'm guessing that you could be 19 and get in w/out difficulty and that few in the crowd would be older than 27, which aside from wardrobe is no different than the Hess of yore. Most of the demographic variety is evident before nightfall.

[thistleclub]

There are downsides to any high-capacity nightlife area, and maybe a watercolour gallery isn't the best fit at this point in the village's evolution. Hopefully more eyes on the street and increasingly ambitious offerings make the promise of "upmarket" more than just $10 covers and $8 pints.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

I think that you'd find the same thing in Hess. When they opened, places like Koi and Sizzle had a fairly strict dress code and a 23+ policy in service of mature-market options and a diverse clientele, but two years later I'm guessing that you could be 19 and get in w/out difficulty and that few in the crowd would be older than 27, which aside from wardrobe is no different than the Hess of yore. Most of the demographic variety is evident before nightfall.

no offense, but you'd be guessing wrong. I am 31 and am surrounded by folks of similar age at KOI/Sizzle during the day and evening.
And I hate to say it, but I'm usually one of the more casually dressed.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/414556

what was the point of linking to this??

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

no offense, but you'd be guessing wrong. I am 31 and am surrounded by folks of similar age at KOI/Sizzle during the day and evening.
And I hate to say it, but I'm usually one of the more casually dressed.

No offense taken. Pleased to find that there's a home base for thirtysomethings in Hess. My impression during visits to Sizzle was just that it skewed to the early 20s after 10pm. (Koi is generally more grown-up, but I'd still be surprised if the 23+ policy is rock-solid.)

The article I linked to was an example of the Spec's bipolar take on Hess and I should have tagged it accordingly. Bad things happen everywhere. (Look at the profile of somewhere like Cagney's in the last two weeks.) Although I'm generally bullish on the future of the Village and a fan of about 1/3 of it, I confess to being a bit confused by the article's change in tone from that prevalent in the last couple of years, when Spec coverage has generally painted Hess as bordering on out-of-control. Wasn't it last summer that this same demographic shift and generational popularity was cause for negative coverage? Maybe they feel merciful because patio season has suffered so many rainy weekends. Could also be a clue to the increasing business clout of the players in the Village, whose work and investments are sometimes overlooked.

[raisethehammer]

yea, I agree with you completely...the Spec usually bashes the village, suddenly it's a big fan.
maybe its part of their slow transformation into a big city paper that is slowly starting to embrace urban values such as walking, cycling, LRT, more trees, nightlife, streetlife etc......
the real test will come at election time. Will they support an urban candidate or does the money still reign supreme?

[thistleclub]

I think that there's an urban awakening taking place on Frid, after a long hibernation... having vamoosed from King East, what, 35 years ago? It's also summer, and the paper doesn't seem to go very hardball in the summer. They might also be soothing potential advertisers, who knows? If they're taking the same pro-Hess line in a couple of months, it'll be more significant. More so in the next election, as you say.

[raisethehammer]

if they're doing anything other than supporting the same old crew of sprawl-happy, bulldozing-crazy, urban haters at the next election, I'll be happily stunned.

[ryan_mcgreal]

Originally Posted by adam

Wow, A Night at the Roxbury has come to Hamilton

Baby don't hurt me.

[SteelTown]

What is love?!