PSAC Strike 2023

[phil235]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

The idea that large corporations have perfect controls is dubious. Yes certain professions bill in 6 minute increments but in many general corporate jobs you can easily get lost in the shuffle.

Yes, and private sector corporations also need cause to fire people (which is the same test in the public and private sectors) or they have to give substantial pay in lieu of notice. The idea that the entire private sector is some wild west where people are regularly being fired on the spot for minor transgressions is ridiculous.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

It is an interesting case to read. He basically won by arguing he was doing all of his assigned work and wasn't bothering anyone. From the tribunal:

It seems clear to me that there was some failure on the part of the grievor’s managers to manage him. While both his supervisors contended that they should not have to supervise minutely an employee at the grievor’s classification level, I believe that they have some responsibility to supervise, which they do not seem to have done in this case. I find it surprising that an employee could spend the amount of time that the grievor did on non-work-related activities for months without his supervisors noting a lack of production or engagement. The employer argued that the grievor negotiated the time - frames for the projects assigned to him and that he also refused long-term projects on the grounds that he would soon be leaving. Even so, it seems to me that the grievor’s supervisors had a responsibility to regularly review his work and production and to assess his workload, which clearly they did not do.

Was he working from home? Much easier to supervise someone if they are in person at the office.

This is such B.S.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

lol, this is exactly what I was trying to get across in my earlier comments. This guy 'refused' additional work and/or long-term projects, and 'negotiated' deadlines. Then it's the manager's fault for not loading him up with work? He would have grieved again for being bullied!

How much workload review gets done elsewhere in government, and how is production formally tracked? Is it a one-on-one weekly in an informal setting? That's easy enough to say 'ohh, i'm so busy this week, I have these several tasks!'

In the private sector, if you're not filling out a punch card, you're filling out a job-specific timesheet for invoicing purposes, and God help you if you've overbooked something, or can't complete your 37.5hrs.

I once saw a guy fired for wearing denim to an important meeting. No joke.

Moonlighting? Porn? Fired.

Acting like your busy but your production doesn't match? Fired.

Ah yes, the perfect private sector. The same one where I've seen people get away with showing up to work drunk after lunch break with a client or drinking in an office because "Fridays are here". Or the one where a manager harassed an employee into depression and having to take sick leave because the manager just kept bullying a colleague in a different division for something that they couldn't do alone. Or those coworkers that always have time for 45 minute coffee breaks twice a day but no one says anything because they're buddy buddy with management.

So perfect. Let's get off our high horse, we aren't much better in the private sector as you are trying to paint.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Was he working from home? Much easier to supervise someone if they are in person at the office.

This is such B.S.

I don't think that matters because anyone who's willing to do these things are beyond what a normally is done at work. My last company had an employee masturbate in his cubicle during his lunch break. He got caught and was put on stress leave.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

Or the one where a manager harassed an employee into depression and having to take sick leave because the manager just kept bullying a colleague in a different division for something that they couldn't do alone. Or those coworkers that always have time for 45 minute coffee breaks twice a day but no one says anything because they're buddy buddy with management.

These things happen in the public sector too.

I've heard a lot of stories of incompetent people or bullies being promoted to management positions elsewhere so they become someone else problem.

And "clicks" where different rules apply to different people are common as well.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

These things happen in the public sector too.

I've heard a lot of stories of incompetent people or bullies being promoted to management positions elsewhere so they become someone else problem.

And "clicks" where different rules apply to different people are common as well.

That's my point, I'm not saying it's perfect in public sector, but I am not going to sit there and act like private sector is all of a sudden perfect either. We need to cut the BS and stop acting like private sector is some perfect utopia.

We see a lot of moaning and complaining about public funds and public sector budgets yet we don't see the same rhetoric when billion dollar corporations get bailed out or receive massive funding. A majority of the management firms in the Ottawa metro are designed to leech as much as they can from public sector funding, and working for 2 of those firms - it's annoying when someone acts like management firms are some saviours to get work done. This private sector elitism is a joke lol.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

That's my point, I'm not saying it's perfect in public sector, but I am not going to sit there and act like private sector is all of a sudden perfect either. We need to cut the BS and stop acting like private sector is some perfect utopia.

We see a lot of moaning and complaining about public funds and public sector budgets yet we don't see the same rhetoric when billion dollar corporations get bailed out or receive massive funding. A majority of the management firms in the Ottawa metro are designed to leech as much as they can from public sector funding, and working for 2 of those firms - it's annoying when someone acts like management firms are some saviours to get work done. This private sector elitism is a joke lol.

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that the private sector is perfect, but having worked in both sectors, it's a night and day difference. The biggest reason for the gov's contentment with the status quo is because revenues come in the form of guaranteed taxpayer funds. An entire department could essentially grind to a halt for a week or two (as is the case during strikes) and there is no effect on the bottom line. The only people who suffer are the people counting on that dept's services and the taxpayers pouring money into a pit.

Aside from the few corps you've alluded to that take gov bailouts, the vast majority are only playing themselves when they operate dysfunctional workplaces, because taxpayers aren't on the hook for it. And even so, the rate of such dysfunction or inefficiency is far, far lower in the private sector because corps have an inherent incentive to succeed - literally staying alive.

Nothing I'm saying is new, but it needs to be re-emphasized that the public service absolutely deserves every ounce of scrutiny it gets, not just because it's an undeniably inefficient hellhole of bureaucracy, but because taxpayers are on the hook for all of it.

Put it this way, is it more upsetting to see kid a failing his university classes after his parents paid his tuition fees, or see his buddy do the same thing but piss away his own money instead?

I'm starting to feel the PS has been this way for so long that many of the arguments in its defence are nothing more than a coping measure.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Was he working from home? Much easier to supervise someone if they are in person at the office.

This is such B.S.

This was 2009. In 2023 nobody would even notice if he was watching porn during work hours.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

The idea that large corporations have perfect controls is dubious. Yes certain professions bill in 6 minute increments but in many general corporate jobs you can easily get lost in the shuffle.

I think large organizations in general are prone to this. It seems like HR dumped this guy in a workplace where management didn’t know what to do with him and then he demonstrated terrible judgement.