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  #1  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2012, 5:44 AM
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Translink Parking Tax Wipes Tens of Millions Off Land Values

Most businesses in Vancouver can expect to be stuck with $150-$300 each in extra property tax this year thanks to a massive drop in the 2011 assessed value of a great many downtown properties.

This assessment drop is an indirect consequence of TransLink policies, according to Paul Sullivan, the chair of the taxation committee for the Vancouver Business Owners and Managers Association. Between $100 million and $200 million has been shaved off the total assessed value of downtown commercial properties, said Sullivan, who is also technical co-chair of Vancouver Fair Tax Coalition and a partner in the tax consulting firm of Burgess Cawley Sullivan.

Since commercial assessments are based on the revenue-producing potential of a property, this is a direct result of a 10-to 20-per-cent drop in parking revenue at downtown lots, he said.

He and the building owners blame the revenue drop squarely on TransLink's decision just over two years ago to triple what used to be seven-per-cent PST on parking to 21 per cent. When the HST is added, it works out to a more than 35-per-cent increase in the cost of off-street parking in Metro Vancouver....


Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Par...#ixzz1pFvKnMB6
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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2012, 6:00 AM
bardak bardak is offline
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Who would have thought that lowering the number of cars entering downtown (A goal of the city) would lower the revenue from paid parking. Also the parking tax has been at the current rate for over 2 years and it is just now a problem. It just seems like a low tax group is using whatever piece of news works to demonize the tax.
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  #3  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2012, 6:10 AM
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This is really not a problem at all. It is already encouraging the redevelopment of some really ugly parking structures into high rise offices and condos. As this is done, the value of the property increases. End of problem. It is actually probably great for the economy of downtown and the city.

The Telus development alone is around $700 million which is much greater than the $200-$300 million decrease in the value of the parking lots.
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  #4  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2012, 3:20 PM
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Originally Posted by racc View Post
This is really not a problem at all. It is already encouraging the redevelopment of some really ugly parking structures into high rise offices and condos. As this is done, the value of the property increases. End of problem. It is actually probably great for the economy of downtown and the city.

The Telus development alone is around $700 million which is much greater than the $200-$300 million decrease in the value of the parking lots.
Spoken just like someone not associated with the commercial real estate industry.
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  #5  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2012, 3:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bardak View Post
Who would have thought that lowering the number of cars entering downtown (A goal of the city) would lower the revenue from paid parking. Also the parking tax has been at the current rate for over 2 years and it is just now a problem. It just seems like a low tax group is using whatever piece of news works to demonize the tax.
Wrong. Issues regarding the tax hike were raised strongly quite some time ago. The context for this particular story resides in the annual release of assessed values and subsequent appeals.
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Old Posted Mar 16, 2012, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by racc View Post
This is really not a problem at all. It is already encouraging the redevelopment of some really ugly parking structures into high rise offices and condos. As this is done, the value of the property increases. End of problem. It is actually probably great for the economy of downtown and the city.

The Telus development alone is around $700 million which is much greater than the $200-$300 million decrease in the value of the parking lots.
Lets see commercial property pays 5 times more in taxes then they consume in services while residential properties consume twice as much as they pay (numbers not exact but close). So if replacing one parkade with an large office tower there will be some gain there, but when we replace a parking lot with a condo tower there is a huge loss to the city. We've lost many more parking lots to condos then we have office towers in recent years.
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Old Posted Mar 16, 2012, 5:55 PM
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Lets see commercial property pays 5 times more in taxes then they consume in services while residential properties consume twice as much as they pay (numbers not exact but close). So if replacing one parkade with an large office tower there will be some gain there, but when we replace a parking lot with a condo tower there is a huge loss to the city. We've lost many more parking lots to condos then we have office towers in recent years.
Very good point.
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Old Posted Mar 16, 2012, 6:15 PM
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Lets see commercial property pays 5 times more in taxes then they consume in services while residential properties consume twice as much as they pay (numbers not exact but close). So if replacing one parkade with an large office tower there will be some gain there, but when we replace a parking lot with a condo tower there is a huge loss to the city. We've lost many more parking lots to condos then we have office towers in recent years.
That is the past. Lets talk about the future. Most are being replaced by office towers; Telus, Thurlow between Alberni; across from Waterfront Station.

There is a great site skyscraperpage.com where people are all excited about these new office towers. A great way to keep up on all this
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  #9  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2012, 6:20 PM
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And who cares if condos are taxed a lower rate than parking garages. Homes for people are far more important than homes for cars. And, given the drop in value of parking, there is a lot more demand for homes for people than homes for cars. Even at very high prices. Parking, not so much.
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  #10  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2012, 7:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
Lets see commercial property pays 5 times more in taxes then they consume in services while residential properties consume twice as much as they pay (numbers not exact but close). So if replacing one parkade with an large office tower there will be some gain there, but when we replace a parking lot with a condo tower there is a huge loss to the city. We've lost many more parking lots to condos then we have office towers in recent years.
I've read of this, but haven't seen the source for it. Any links?
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  #11  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2012, 7:46 PM
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Originally Posted by racc View Post
That is the past. Lets talk about the future. Most are being replaced by office towers; Telus, Thurlow between Alberni; across from Waterfront Station.

There is a great site skyscraperpage.com where people are all excited about these new office towers. A great way to keep up on all this
You serious? About 3 office buildings get announced and you think condos are the past and most parking lots will now be replaced with office buildings?? Give your head a shake.

Also what's with the attitude? I think we all know Jlousa is probably the most informed poster on this site, I'd imagine he is far more "up on this" than anyone else here.

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And who cares if condos are taxed a lower rate than parking garages. Homes for people are far more important than homes for cars. And, given the drop in value of parking, there is a lot more demand for homes for people than homes for cars. Even at very high prices. Parking, not so much.
So taxes were an important issue when you thought they helped your argument but now that they don't taxes are inconsequential?
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  #12  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2012, 1:06 AM
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To add to this, with an inevitable BC NDP win in 2013, those three cute little office towers already underconstruction will be the only new office towers in downtown Vancouver for at least the next six years. So I'm pretty sure those vacant parking lots will be replaced by yet more residential condos just like what has happened in the dark decade called the 90s.

Yeah, Jlousa is one of the most informative forumers on what truly goes on in the city...
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  #13  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2012, 3:43 AM
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And further more, all the economic activity and thus taxes generated by new construction totally would overwhelm any temporary loss in property tax revenue. Parking garages in general are a poor use of expensive real estate from any point of view economically.

They are really ugly too and add nothing to the quality of the urban environment. I, for one, can't wait until the one across from Waterfront Station is gone. I would pay for an opportunity to knock a bit of it down.
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  #14  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2012, 5:26 AM
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And further more, all the economic activity and thus taxes generated by new construction totally would overwhelm any temporary loss in property tax revenue. Parking garages in general are a poor use of expensive real estate from any point of view economically.

They are really ugly too and add nothing to the quality of the urban environment. I, for one, can't wait until the one across from Waterfront Station is gone. I would pay for an opportunity to knock a bit of it down.

What do you know of economics? Show us your degree.

Any 12 year old could figure out that construction activity downtown, while a real economic driver, isn't permanent. It ends when you finish building a building. And eventually, you're going to run out of spots to build them.

The revenue from a parkade going, or even the revenues from a permanent economic contributer like... oh... say a fully leased office tower, will inevitably put far more money towards mass transit than another residential tower ever will. No matter what, both a commercial development and a residential development will produce revenues from construction. What really matters is which drives the economy more in the long term, a place where people earn money and contribute to the economy through the generation of wealth, or where they live and spend this earned wealth?

At the end of the day, we need both. But it's better to concentrate office development on the remaining Downtown properties available than residential. You can stick residential developments virtually anywhere, it isn't quite the same for major office space. And at some point, we will run out of commercial space, likely long before we run out of residential space.
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  #15  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2012, 5:31 AM
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The sky is falling, apparently.
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  #16  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2012, 6:18 AM
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I really don't see where this is a bad thing. Who cares what the cause is, the result is clear: fewer cars are coming into downtown. That means that we're using less precious oil, spewing out less pollution, and reducing road congestion. What's to complain about? Do people really want more cars downtown?
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  #17  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2012, 6:26 AM
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I really don't see where this is a bad thing. Who cares what the cause is, the result is clear: fewer cars are coming into downtown. That means that we're using less precious oil, spewing out less pollution, and reducing road congestion. What's to complain about? Do people really want more cars downtown?
A nice tax hike for existing businesses (which you and Richard seemed to have missed in the original article) and with the added benefit of fewer people shopping and spending money downtown. But I'm sure that little bicycle cafe is booming.
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  #18  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2012, 7:07 AM
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Where is this proof that fewer people are shopping and spending money downtown? There are suburbanites in every city who never go downtown, who prefer their life where it is and feel no need. Big deal. That is proof of nothing.

Non-existent, bicycle cafes? How do snide, hyperbolic fictions in any way make your point?

Some of are hoping for a less car-dependent future. We voted for a municipal party who also supported that. Guess what? They won. Get over it.
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  #19  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2012, 2:08 PM
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Last stats I saw showed a significant increase in trips to downtown, it is just that the mode share has significantly shifted from cars. So it is a good thing. I for one think parking lots are one of the lowest returns to a city, a decline in parking demand is good.
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  #20  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2012, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post
Where is this proof that fewer people are shopping and spending money downtown? There are suburbanites in every city who never go downtown, who prefer their life where it is and feel no need. Big deal. That is proof of nothing.

Non-existent, bicycle cafes? How do snide, hyperbolic fictions in any way make your point?

Some of are hoping for a less car-dependent future. We voted for a municipal party who also supported that. Guess what? They won. Get over it.
Non-existent? Guess that's how successful it is. Better to do a little more research sonny:

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/V...950/story.html
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