Gas Prices

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Time to go electric. The only time your prices will change is when the BCUC approves price increases. It's nice to have certainty.

The latest price increases seriously had me looking at going electric. I hope the BC NDP uses their upcoming budget to make it a more viable option, plus it would create demand for all that Site C power and be a shot across the bow of oil-pushing Alberta. My heart says Model S, my wallet says Chevy Bolt.

[SpongeG]

on friday the supersave on clark at 12th was 132.9, the shell across the street was 141.9, guess which station had the lineup

[Pinion]

I would take a Tesla over most luxury cars, but my 2011 Mazda only has 70,000km on it.

edit: also my condo parkade would have to do some significant wiring in advance, fat chance of that happening.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by skymaster

Is it safe transporting gas like that in containers? I'm assuming those jerry cans don't protect you from the fumes. You will need at least 40-60 liters to fillup most cars. I couldn't imagine carrying that much gas in cans in the car.

More than two Jerry cans is illegal and unsafe.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

well if there are all of a sudden 2 million cars charging over night, i could see that being an issue. that is on-top of the natural gas replacement.

i know BC Hydro doesn't have time-dependent rates but from what i have heard is that at night they can shut down a lot of turbines and save on maintenance/wear and tear and buy very cheap power from down south where they use thermal systems unlike hydro like us.

They turn the turbines down because low demand means it’s nkt worth it. A bunch of cars charging at night would level out electric demand and wouldn’t tax resources that much.

if BC Hydro were to use turbines 24/7 and more then they do now i could see prices going up since there will be an increase in maintenance requirements. will it be that large? mehh, maybe not. but it is still something that adds up. this is also on-top of a world where we need more and more power constantly and where we have politicians who want to do green-washing by banning natural gas and forcing electricity.

i do think it will have an affect, though, and then there is the fact our power system is now mostly from the 1960s and older so it is only going to get more costly to maintain.

Doubt it would have much of an effect. It just makes power generated at night more useful and valuable. It would improve efficiency as power designed for peak power requirements.

really, we shouldn't have used electric cars, they are terrible compared to hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. but that is a discussion for another forum.

But in reality battery powered cars democratize charging infrastructure. No need to rely on any filling station.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I would take a Tesla over most luxury cars, but my 2011 Mazda only has 70,000km on it.

edit: also my condo parkade would have to do some significant wiring in advance, fat chance of that happening.

Unless something dramatically changes technologically or price-wise, electric vehicles will remain a niche market while good ole gasoline vehicles will continue to be the choice of transportation for most. I am not beholden to any one technology but on a practical level for my family, electric cars don't seem to be on our radar.

[SpongeG]

A few countries have said only electric cars can be sold after 2020, it could take off.

I've seen a lot of Nissan Leafs and BMW electric cars down in Vancouver. I don't think people buy them outside of the Lower Mainland, maybe on the island.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

well if there are all of a sudden 2 million cars charging over night, i could see that being an issue. that is on-top of the natural gas replacement.

i know BC Hydro doesn't have time-dependent rates but from what i have heard is that at night they can shut down a lot of turbines and save on maintenance/wear and tear and buy very cheap power from down south where they use thermal systems unlike hydro like us.

if BC Hydro were to use turbines 24/7 and more then they do now i could see prices going up since there will be an increase in maintenance requirements. will it be that large? mehh, maybe not. but it is still something that adds up. this is also on-top of a world where we need more and more power constantly and where we have politicians who want to do green-washing by banning natural gas and forcing electricity.

i do think it will have an affect, though, and then there is the fact our power system is now mostly from the 1960s and older so it is only going to get more costly to maintain.

really, we shouldn't have used electric cars, they are terrible compared to hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. but that is a discussion for another forum.

It's not the maintenance. Hydro only has so much water that can go through the turbines. So depending on how much snow or rain or whatnot, they know how many GWh they have to sell in a year. Any more than that and we're importing power for elsewhere. Most of the big dams only spill excess water a couple times a year, the rest of the time it's all going through the turbines.

Hydrogen is also ridiculous flop of a technology. You should read into it a bit more. Right now, they only get about 30% of the energy that goes into hydrogen production to turn into useful work. With batteries that's over 90%. The fuel is either cracked out from natural gas or electrolysed out of water. The NG option produces a fair amount of carbon dioxide emissions, while the electrolysis option is essentially just making a shitty, explosive, inefficient battery.

It's far easier to just keep making batteries better. They just need to keep working on the charge times, and gas will effectively be toast. Give it 10 years.

[Nites]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

A few countries have said only electric cars can be sold after 2020, it could take off.

I've seen a lot of Nissan Leafs and BMW electric cars down in Vancouver. I don't think people buy them outside of the Lower Mainland, maybe on the island.

Most electric cars can only be serviced and repaired at the dealer. This is another thing that most people take into consideration when buying one. You can't just go to a backyard mechanic and get your car repaired for half the cost.

[Nites]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Unless something dramatically changes technologically or price-wise, electric vehicles will remain a niche market while good ole gasoline vehicles will continue to be the choice of transportation for most. I am not beholden to any one technology but on a practical level for my family, electric cars don't seem to be on our radar.

Its true. Most manufactures are now pushing out smaller turbo charged engines. Look at the F150 series with the 2.7L EcoBoost V6 which pushes 325hp & 400lbs of torque. You also see it with the sports cars now like the Mustang, Civic Si, Genesis Coupe, BMW's, etc. They get decent gas mileage now compared to 7-8 years ago. The Nissan GTR was kind of the pioneer of the smaller turbo charged engines.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Unless something dramatically changes technologically or price-wise, electric vehicles will remain a niche market while good ole gasoline vehicles will continue to be the choice of transportation for most. I am not beholden to any one technology but on a practical level for my family, electric cars don't seem to be on our radar.

It's changing. The battery costs are dropping like a rock. I have a 2012 Volt. When it was built, the battery cost over $1000/kWh, making the battery worth almost $20K when it was new.

Now, GM says it's packs cost $150/kWh. Tesla seem to be near $130/kWh. It's all about volume.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by skymaster

Most electric cars can only be serviced and repaired at the dealer. This is another thing that most people take into consideration when buying one. You can't just go to a backyard mechanic and get your car repaired for half the cost.

With most new cars that’s the case anyway. Plus electrics have far fewer moving parts. As Alex says battery costs keep dropping. If Tesla can actually get the Model 3 rolling out en masse, it will be another stride forward.

[stump]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

A few countries have said only electric cars can be sold after 2020, it could take off.

I've seen a lot of Nissan Leafs and BMW electric cars down in Vancouver. I don't think people buy them outside of the Lower Mainland, maybe on the island.

Which countries have said this? Only selling electric cars in less than 2 years is a very short period of time. I don't think that is true.

I can only find a few stories like France plans to ban sales of new petrol and diesel cars by 2040. Netherlands is 2030. Norway is 2025 and they already have 1/4 hybrid or electric mainly because taxes on petrol cars are insane. Other listed countries have a tiny almost inconsequential percentage of electric cars.

[Pinion]

UK and France have said 2040, Norway is 2025, Netherlands and India are 2030, Scotland has said 2032, China has said they're working on a timetable, Germany has a non-legally binding agreement for 2020. Austria, Denmark, Ireland, Japan, Portugal, Korea and Spain have also set official targets for electric car sales. Just from a quick google search - seems pretty significant to me.

GM and Jaguar Land Rover said no more production of combustion engine vehicles after 2020, maybe that's what he was thinking of.

I see a LOT of Leafs/Teslas/electric BMWs too driving around downtown and the north shore mostly.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Pinion

UK and France have said 2040, Norway is 2025, Netherlands and India are 2030, Scotland has said 2032, China has said they're working on a timetable, Germany has a non-legally binding agreement for 2020. Austria, Denmark, Ireland, Japan, Portugal, Korea and Spain have also set official targets for electric car sales. Just from a quick google search - seems pretty significant to me.

GM and Jaguar Land Rover said no more production of combustion engine vehicles after 2020, maybe that's what he was thinking of.

I see a LOT of Leafs/Teslas/electric BMWs too driving around downtown and the north shore mostly.

I am all for reducing carbon emissions but I would want the same torque and ride my V6 Suzuki gives plus at least 500 km between charges for hwy driving. Maybe one day they will get there. I guess we will see how the consumer responds.

[TrickyTree]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

wait until every person has electric, then your "gas" for your car AND your house will cost more. and then add in the fact Vancouver is forcing all electric appliances while at the same time not allowing BC Hydro to build the very needed downtown substation. there go the cheap power rates and night time being off peak as everyone is charging.

And to think the NDP and Green Party knuckle draggers said Site C was not needed.

[s211]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

A few countries have said only electric cars can be sold after 2020, it could take off.

Don't believe the hype. That suggestion is about as off as the shills claiming California would be 100% electric by 2019. I wish I could find that story, as it was practically comedy gold.

[stump]

Originally Posted by Pinion

UK and France have said 2040, Norway is 2025, Netherlands and India are 2030, Scotland has said 2032, China has said they're working on a timetable, Germany has a non-legally binding agreement for 2020. Austria, Denmark, Ireland, Japan, Portugal, Korea and Spain have also set official targets for electric car sales. Just from a quick google search - seems pretty significant to me.

GM and Jaguar Land Rover said no more production of combustion engine vehicles after 2020, maybe that's what he was thinking of.

I see a LOT of Leafs/Teslas/electric BMWs too driving around downtown and the north shore mostly.

Government promises are government promises. Setting targets is meaningless. Germany said they wanted to sell 1 million electric cars by 2020 which they now say is not possible. They just hit 200,000 electric cars out of 45.8 million cars and most of those are plug in hybrids.

GM - I'm not finding an article that states what you say.
Jaguar - they will offer electric or hybrid options of all their models. Hybrids till have a combustion engine but it's getting there.

All electric and plug in hybrid models make up 1% of all car sales in Canada. 95% of those are in 3 provinces. 2 million total car sales in Canada in 2017 and those 2 million cars will still be on the road for another 9 years as an average of car ownership.

Electric will be the future for sure but I think time frames and targets that I see thrown around are far too ambitious.

[Airboy]

I am seeing more and more infrastructure for EVs being built into facilities here, either new or retrofitted. You will see more of some form of electric vehicle in the Major cities in Alberta. St Albert is already using battery powered buses. So we know they work in the cold weather. Epcor has a 25 hectare solar farm proposal for the river valley in YEG.

If and when I upgrade to an EV I hope the tech is within the same economics as gas. Like was said above, maintenance and power cost per Km. Plus the distance per charge must increase dramatically.

The lower Mainland has over 3 million cars on the road if they all switched to EV they would not need Alberta fuel but the site C and other damns would be required.

Gas prices in YEG this morning fell to 0.99. I also heard today the cost of production in the oil sands has fallen below $50.00 a barrel.

From a discussion on the Radio this morning.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ture-1.4523780

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by Airboy

The lower Mainland has over 3 million cars on the road

Are you sure about that?