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  #161  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 1:31 AM
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Quite honestly, i'm surprised that Bronx Park is as old as it is. I've always assumed the neighbourhood was a postwar burb.

Also, does anybody (Andy,rgalston) know how far the street car ran down Henderson?

I've heard stories from my grandparents about taking the trolley down St.Mary's and into Old St.Vital but its hard to imagine any of these suburban areas being street car neighbourhoods.
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  #162  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 2:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
Quite honestly, i'm surprised that Bronx Park is as old as it is. I've always assumed the neighbourhood was a postwar burb.

Also, does anybody (Andy,rgalston) know how far the street car ran down Henderson?

I've heard stories from my grandparents about taking the trolley down St.Mary's and into Old St.Vital but its hard to imagine any of these suburban areas being street car neighbourhoods.
According to this map, the Henderson line ran out to East St. Paul. Up until around 1930, you could ride Winnipeg Electric RR Co's inter-urban lines out to the university in Fort Garry, Headingley, Selkirk, and Stonewall. You can see in the map that pretty much every town and R.M. surrounding the old City of Winnipeg had streetcar service, and every major neighborhood street in the city (with the exception of Ellice Ave. west of Kennedy St.) had streetcar service.

There are a number of color photos here that show streetcars in the early 1950s, mostly at the end of their lines in North and West Kildonan or St. James. By that time, streetcars were close to dissapearing, and tracks only ran down Portage, Main, Henderson, Osborne, Broadway and Princess, maybe a few others.
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  #163  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 2:28 AM
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I really appreciate that map. Thanks!
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  #164  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 3:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
Quite honestly, i'm surprised that Bronx Park is as old as it is. I've always assumed the neighbourhood was a postwar burb.
Well, this is just an advertisement. There were tons of subdivisions being registered at that time. Many of them aren't developed even today. What happened in some of the areas was that a few people bought lots during the boom and then nothing much more happened until the postwar era. My neighbourhood in St. Vital was like that -- it seems like an early 60s subdivision but in reality it was first laid out around 1905 and here and there there were a few old houses, mostly hardly more than shacks, dating back to the 1920s if not older.

If you look at Bronx Park in the 1911 census, a year after this advertisement, you can see that there appear to be only five families living there (as noted in the ad, Bronx Park = Lots 87, 88 and 89 of East Kildonan). Interestingly, if you click around on the City's current value map of the area, you can see that most of the houses do date from the early 50s, but a few closer to Henderson are from the 20s. The oldest I noted was 333 Melbourne, built in 1914.

You can see all the registered subdivisions on Chataway's Map of Winnipeg (1912) (east) and (west). I acquired a copy of this map four or five years ago, which is how I came to know a bit about this stuff. The subdivision names are printed in red, and many of them were enthusiastically advertised in the Free Press around 1910-1912, with few ever being fully developed as planned.
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  #165  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2008, 4:10 AM
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Now for my next question, do either yourself Andy or Rob have an explanation for why there were so many schools built along Henderson between 1910-15? John Pritchard and Lord Wolseley come to mind.

Was the city / province planning for Winnipeg to quickly expand into the Kildonans or were these schools built for the surrounding rural community?

It's hard to imagine there would have been very many people living out in Kildonans around that time.
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  #166  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2008, 5:00 AM
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This Day in Winnipeg History

Hi guys. Something I've been doing for about 6 months now on another site is a "This Day in Winnipeg History". I also post it at my site www.christiancassidy.com I am not sure if there would be any interest for me to post it here as many of you are also on nw.

Here's this weeks: http://www.christiancassidy.com/?p=24
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  #167  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2008, 6:35 AM
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Very nice. It seems like a lot of work.
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  #168  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2008, 6:57 AM
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the only shot i have seen of the under ground mall construction anyone got any others?

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  #169  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 1:51 AM
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I found another development-related special issue of the Free Press today, from 1890. It's pretty interesting since it is looking back on the years 1880-1890 which started out with the boom but ended with five years of "bust". So the Free Press speaks with a very chastened sort of tone, with the city having learned some hard lessons.

The front page is devoted mostly to a proposal to dam the Assiniboine at Omands Creek and build a power canal through what is now Wolseley. There would then have been mills and factories between the canal and the Assiniboine. There were plans to divert Lake Manitoba into the Assiniboine to increase the flow. The water from the canal would have been carried to the Red River through sluices. The article makes reference to a previous plan to build a canal from St James to Point Douglas.

The economic idea was to power mills that could refine wheat into flour -- in other words to create some secondary value-added industry. The Free Press writes:

When the water power is available there will be no reason why the bulk of this should not be milled in Winnipeg and exported from here as flour. Winnipeg should be to Manitoba and the Territories what Minneapolis is to Minnesota and Dakota. The waterpower will be near the C.P.R. line at St. James; and a spur running down the bank of the river between the canal and the river banks would give every mill a railway at its door to bring it wheat and carry away its flour.



Here is my transcription of the beginning of the article, which says a lot about the mood in the city after the boom had ended -- what is clearly needed is a more sober and economically informed attitude to future growth:

WINNIPEG’S WATERPOWER.
---
It Will Make the City a Manufacturing Centre.
---
A Ten Thousand Horse Power Can be Developed.
---
This Would Support a Population of 50,000.
---
Description of How the Power Will be Utilized.


It has long been the hope of every Winnipegger that this city is destined to become one of the distinctively great cities of the continent. Orators have pictured in glowing prophecies the future glories of the place that has passed with one stride from a frontier outpost to a city of metropolitan pretensions; and but few of our citizens have not indulged in day dreams of a splendid city stretching far and wide over what is now miles of prairie dotted here and there by groups of houses, the vanguard of the future’s solid blocks.

And no one can say that these hopes are chimerical and foundationless—that is no one can say it justly, for of course the craven hearted and the doubting Thomases are here as they are in every spot on the face of the earth. Take even since the boom, from the collapse of which the city is supposed to be still staggering, and has there not been a continual upward movement, slow undoubtedly but still indisputably upwards? Look at the magnificent blocks that have taken the place of the corner shacks—relics of the pioneer days—in which the boom merchants displayed their goods; the public buildings that have been erected; the increase in the attributes of a city, such as street-paving, street lighting, the supplying of water; note that the wholesale businesses have quintupled in the interval; observe the steady beautifying of the residential portion of the city in the erection of handsome houses, and the laying out of beautiful grounds; consider the development of home industries; go to the railway stations and see the trains roll in from the north, and the west and the south and the east; regard the development of those institutions which index the intellectual and moral qualities of a people—the schools, the colleges, the churches, the hospitals. No one who thus surveys the field can doubt that the city has thus far to a certain extent justified its early promise.

But only in part. Nine years ago people did not use in their estimates of the future, their common sense; if indeed they possessed that attribute in those times of feverish speculation. One hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, a quarter of a million, half a million—these were the estimates of the population that Winnipeg would have within two decades. But population cannot grow on nothing; and of recent years those interested in the city in place of expecting development to happen, as the result of fortuitous circumstances, have set themselves to work considering calmly in what way more employment to capital and labor can be given in the city, and in this way ensure its growth. It has been established by experience that the natural situation of the city is such that the bulk of the wholesale trade for the Northwest will be done from it. As a grain buying centre its position is also assured; and there are also other influences such as those resulting from the seat of government, and the colleges being here, that will do their share in advancing the city. But if the bright dreams of the future are ever to be fully realized, there must be another upbuilding influence—that supplied by manufacturing. Now the manufacturing industries of the city are not inconsiderable, but under existing circumstances Winnipeg can never become a distinctly manufacturing centre, though there are inexhaustible quantities of raw material available for more than one industry. The chief drawback is the cost of the motive power. The dearness of wood and coal make steam power so costly that taken with the extra cost of labour, it places manufacturers at a decided disadvantage with eastern competitors.

The cheapest motive power in the world is that supplied by nature—water. ‘Since steam power is not practicable why not look to our rivers’ was a thought that occurred to some of the citizens some four or five years ago. This was not the first time that the potential uses [?] of the latent power of the river courses had been discussed, for nearly a decade ago there was a proposition to build an aqueduct from St. James through the city to the Red River at Point Douglas, and utilize the fall thus obtained for the purpose of supplying motive power. The scheme never approached any tangible shape. To Major Ruttan, the city engineer, is due the chief credit of bringing the citizens to a sense of the possibilities of power which the Assiniboine contains. In [18??] he brought the matter before the city council and was allowed to make a report to the city, without charge, on the matter. That report started public interest; and ever since the subject has not been lost sight of by the city council and other public bodies. A succession of reports, surveys, investigations by committees, demonstrated that even the minimum flow of the Assiniboine would supply sufficient water power to a large number of manufactories; that the proposition to realize this power by means of a dam was perfectly feasible at a cost which in respect to the important results anticipated cannot be regarded as great. And now after a year or more of negotiating with various companies the city is about entering into an arrangement with a substantial syndicate of capitalists headed by James Ross, the wealthy railway contractor, by which the construction of the work will be begun within a few months.

---

Here is part of another front-page article discussing how the city had changed from 1880 to 1890:

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  #170  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 1:54 AM
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In the above article, I wonder what the reference to a "grand edifice" at Main and Broadway that never got past the foundation stage is referring to.
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  #171  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 3:18 AM
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Neat stuff Andy. Are you doing this just out of interests sake or is this to be published?
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  #172  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 3:24 AM
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wheres the rest of that artical andy...


sounds like a somthing simlar to what happend on 4th ave in calgary andy
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  #173  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 3:47 AM
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Neat stuff Andy. Are you doing this just out of interests sake or is this to be published?
Just out of interest, for the moment anyway.

Adrian, I will try to post more in the next few days. What is like 4th Av in Calgary? -- I didn't quite understand you there.
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  #174  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2008, 4:22 AM
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Just out of interest, for the moment anyway.

Adrian, I will try to post more in the next few days. What is like 4th Av in Calgary? -- I didn't quite understand you there.
you reference to the bit about a foundation of some building at Broadway and main
this project started like 5 or 6 years ago then went bankrupt and then got bought and a new project was supost to start then it went bankrupt also. so its sat abandoned since now a new owner is demolishing for a new biger project...



photo credit: Surrealplaces
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  #175  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2008, 2:16 AM
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Here's a bit more of the continuation of the first article above, from the Free Press, Dec. 20, 1890, p. 4:

THE STREETS OF 1880.

A few such facts as these help one to realize the extent of the changes that have taken place in ten years. Logan street, to-day one of the most populous streets and built far towards the western limits, had in 1880 no residents; and all the streets north of and running parallel to it west of Main street., were in the same position. The residents of Common street [Henry Av], east of Main street, were limited to Mr. W. G. Fonseca, whose place of residence has not been changed in the interval, two laborers and a watchmaker. Point Douglas Avenue, along which the C.P.R. track now runs, had east of Main street, two ferry men, an iceman and a laborer; and one laborer on the west side of Main St. Ellen street, running north and south along the east side of the Central school property, had two residents, and of streets farther west, running parallel to it, Francis [Frances] street had three; Gertie, one; Harriet, none; Isabel, one; Juno, one; Kate, Lydia and others farther west, none. Coming farther east again, Charlotte [Hargrave North] street had twenty residents; Adelaide, ten; Margaret (now Princess), forty-one between Notre Dame and Common [Henry Av] streets, and one north of Common street near Christ church; Ross street had only three residents west of Isabel street and a couple of dozen eastwards. Alexander street had three residents between Patrick and Prairie [Isabel North] streets, and two dozen eastwards all the way to the Red river. Main street then began at the Assiniboine ferry, though it had nearly all the business establishments of the city: these were not numerous north of the city hall, but were limited to a few groceries, bakeries, harness, blacksmith, carpenter shops, etc., and some hotels and boarding houses. Ward 1, or Fort Rouge, of the present south of the Assiniboine, with its many fine residences, its block pavement, its electric street railway and electric lights was then “St. Boniface West,” a farming district, entirely outside of the corporation. Broadway, now celebrated for the mansions of the wealthy citizens along and near it, had as its only residents a ferryman, a carpenter, a mason and three laborers. Donald street had seven residents; Hargrave street, two; Edmonton and Kennedy streets, none.

Here is more of the article (the above is the last para. below):

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  #176  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2008, 2:17 AM
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Caption reads: Pumping sand on the Red River, Looking East into St. Boniface
found it on the cities website
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  #177  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2008, 6:08 AM
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Happyland (in west Wolseley) used to give me bad dreams.


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  #178  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2008, 6:54 AM
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Happyland (in west Wolseley) used to give me bad dreams.
with a name like happyland how could it be so bad? lol
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  #179  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2008, 1:58 PM
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Cool pics of Happyland. I have only heard rumours of the old amusement park in Wolesley. These are the first pictures I have seen.

It used to sit a couple blocks west of where my house on Lipton is - although you would never be able to tell it was ever there now...
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  #180  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2008, 5:46 PM
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54 Arthur (Robinson, Little and Company, aka Silpit), 70 Arthur (R.J. Whitla and Company, also Silpit) and 250 McDermot (Merchants Building) were all before Property committee yesterday and recommended for Grade II historical status. Looks like the current property owner (same for all three) initiated the request to have them listed.

54 Arthur


70 Arthur


250 McDermot

Last edited by fengshui; Feb 27, 2008 at 6:01 PM.
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