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  #1041  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 3:32 AM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Say the CPL team plays at Wanderer Grounds and the reception is mild - crowds aren't that great, the bar doesn't do too well, fans are messing up the adjacent urban area: how easy do you think it would be for a CFL team to step in and ask for an even bigger stadium, urban or otherwise? And for government funding on top?
And if the CPL doesn't get off the ground or goes to shit then what, another sport with a different fanbase is denied a kick at the cat? Makes little sense and is comparing apples to oranges.

I know there are a fair number of young posters here but I am old enough to remember the CSL. It had a helluva lot more going for it than the CPL and it was lucky to weather six years. I don't see the CPL minus the big three markets being much of a commercial success. If they are able to get something out of it as a developmental league I'll be happy but to mention it in the same breath as a comparison or pathfinder in any way to the CFL is a non starter.

I don't mean to put words in your mouth and I realize what I said above isn't your intention but I just don't think your reasoning is valid and it's a stretch.
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  #1042  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 3:41 AM
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Unless Halifax and Nova Scotia are willing to invest $100+ million in this project it will not move forward imo.
If they build something along the lines of THF, I think this thing will go over. Would be nice to get the universities involved (soccer and football programs) and of course rentals to the public with a bubble in the winter.

As is plainly evident I'm a big Ambrosie fan and I think he is a guy who can broker this deal but I'm not totally sold on those guys as an ownership group. Maybe they are some realistic bait to get out some bigger players although LeBlanc was a bigwig at Blackberry.
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  #1043  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 4:58 AM
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I think there is something to what JHikka is saying about the steps in getting a Halifax football stadium built.

For many years in Winnipeg, any kind of new pro sports venue was like an impossible dream. Impossible to the point that it took down the old Jets and nearly killed the Blue Bombers. However, once the minor league baseball park downtown took off and became a proven success, it paved the way for MTS Centre and Investors Group Field. I think it would have been tougher to sway public support for the latter two without an example of what a new venue could do.
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  #1044  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 11:57 AM
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But the Maritimes doesn't have that sense of loss that you're describing about Winnipeg.

Let's face it although I love the idea for a developmental league the CPL is not going to be perceived as a major league venture. I've lived in both Halifax and Moncton and pro minor league soccer is going to be a hard sell. I wouldn't even say AHL and junior hockey have been overwhelming successes, they just kind of have their hills and valleys. Years of sellouts aren't the norm. Hell, we don't even have an AHL team anymore but losing them wasn't anywhere on the scale of losing the Jets or possibly the Bombers.

This idea of a CFL team in Halifax has its own legs, the idea's been around forever, people are positive about it, and it even had a serious consideration in the early 80s. My only trepidation right now is that ownership group, I'd like to see another guy with some serious cash in that group. But maybe Ambrosie is using them as bait to see if some others will come out of the woodwork.
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  #1045  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 1:35 PM
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I think one of the first steps should be before the CFL even grants this ownership a team would be for the ownership to become an actual legal organisation a la OSEG or True North and start selling season tickets deposits. This would give the league a view on what the appetite for the CFL is in the area.

Whether it happens down the road or not, the league must be happier than a pig in shit right now. A real desire to add a team in the east and create a 10 team league, not having to worry about selling out the GC for the first time in 4 years, positive news and vibes coming out of Toronto, and these two match ups are not only going to be great games but will boost TV ratings with Sask being in one game and the battle of Alberta being in the other. Three of the strongest TV viewership teams in the league.
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  #1046  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
And if the CPL doesn't get off the ground or goes to shit then what, another sport with a different fanbase is denied a kick at the cat? Makes little sense and is comparing apples to oranges.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying public support for government funding is easier if a smaller league is already in the market and has proven the value of outdoor stadiums. It braces people to the idea and makes the public money ask easier.

I'm not saying the presence of CPL precludes and is a requirement for a CFL franchise - I'm saying its success can be a net benefit for a prospective CFL franchise, and can warp public opinion to be in favour of public money for a big CFL stadium.

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Originally Posted by someone123
Maybe. This is a pretty vague argument that seems to be based around public perception though. Who's to say that the prospect of funding a CFL stadium in Halifax isn't already popular with the public there? I don't actually know. I know it's not popular with Waye Mason or Colin May (it's hard to find anything that is...). So that gives us an upper bound of support around 0.999995.
Halifax mayor Savage has already come out and said the municipality will not be leading a stadium proposal and funding one isn't a current municipal priority, for what it's worth.

Public perception is almost universally against using public money for stadiums to house professional sports teams. Especially ones owned solely by the wealthy.

Again, a stadium proposal may be easier to digest if it's proposed as a multi-tenant, community-based centre. House football, soccer, and rugby teams. Throw concerts and events. Make it a premiere event location. Building a stadium this large just for a CFL team in a market with zero prior experience with pro sports teams isn't going to go over very well if they're using public money as a crutch for their business plan.

I'm entirely behind a CFL franchise on the East Coast but stadium financing is the largest hurdle. There's enough support from the community for a franchise in theory.
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  #1047  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 4:40 PM
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^ Multipurpose also provides a bit of a hedge against a CFL team going under. It would be quite a disaster for HRM if a Halifax CFL team for whatever reason failed to take off and folded 5 years down the road. Then you'd have an expensive stadium to pay off with no tenants renting it... a CPL team plus whatever else would strengthen the case for such a facility.

Incidentally, it'll be interesting to see what kind of venue ultimately gets pitched for Halifax. I'm assuming something like Tim Horton's Field would be a good fit... fairly basic and economical, but still comfortable and big enough to host major events.
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  #1048  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by q12 View Post
#CFL confirms discussions have taken place regarding Halifax Expansion. ➡️ http://on.cfl.ca/cJ2b30gDfeg

https://twitter.com/CFL/status/931284343628103680

#CFL Twitter?

A little excited about Halifax expansion news ➡️ http://on.cfl.ca/dqah30gDhqT

https://twitter.com/CFL/status/931292498026254337
This is quite possibly the best news ever !!
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  #1049  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 8:45 PM
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S|E|A (Halifax Canadian Premier League backers) statement on CFL:

Quote:
Lots of questions re: our position on CFL in Halifax story so here you go:
1 - We have had some discussions with the group but are not currently part of it.

2 - We believe a rising tide lifts all boats so we support any effort to bring more sports & ent options to Halifax.

3 – We believe the global sport of soccer is on the upswing and has a bright future in Canada. We also believe the soccer fan demographic aligns very well with the emerging identity of Halifax as an urban dense, youth and immigrant friendly, international city.

4 – We believe our accepted proposal for a right sized, privately funded, modular stadium located in the heart of downtown on the historic Wanderers Grounds is the best option for our downtown and our community right now but we are excited to see what the future brings.
https://twitter.com/ProducedBySEA/st...08577017511938

Quote:
David William Naylor‏
@TSNDaveNaylor

Halifax mayor Mike Savage to local radio on CFL expansion to his city: "This is the certainly the closest we've ever been, the furthest along, and the most serious we've seen a group come together on this." #CFL #Halifax
https://twitter.com/TSNDaveNaylor/st...70976843845632
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  #1050  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Halifax mayor Savage has already come out and said the municipality will not be leading a stadium proposal and funding one isn't a current municipal priority, for what it's worth.
Placed in context this means almost nothing except that the mayor feels it is too early to throw his support behind the idea of public funding for a stadium. The city picks new funding priorities all the time.
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  #1051  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 9:30 PM
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Originally Posted by craner View Post
This is quite possibly the best news ever !!
It almost feels like they're trying to get out with a good news story before the annual NFL in Toronto or CFL on death's door drivel that seems to re-emerge during Grey Cup week... Usually by Rogers lackeys.

If that's the case, kudos to them for getting a jump on things.

One of the biggest bonuses of a Halifax/Atlantic Team is that Labour Day weekend could finally have fixed back-to-back matchups... With BC and the Atlantic team having a Battle of the Coasts.
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  #1052  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2017, 11:48 PM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Public perception is almost universally against using public money for stadiums to house professional sports teams. Especially ones owned solely by the wealthy.
Not the case in the Maritimes where there really is no history of this. I can easily see this getting government funding, you'll always have the build better roads and hospitals folks but I honestly think this is such a feel good story it will happen.

If they can partner with Dal and SMU they'll have even a better shot at funding.
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  #1053  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2017, 12:33 AM
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Halifax mayor impressed by group looking to bring CFL team to city
Mike Savage says group's pitch is 'totally different than anything else that I've seen'
CBC News Nov 17, 2017

Halifax Mayor Mike Savage says many people have come to his office in the past to talk about setting up a CFL franchise in the city, but once he's discussed what's needed, they haven't returned.

He said that's what makes the most recent pitch from a group looking to set up a team here so distinct.

"It's totally different than anything else that I've seen," said Savage.

The biggest obstacle Halifax faces is it doesn't have a football stadium suitable for the CFL.

Concordia University sports economist Moshe Lander said he's not a fan of using public money to build stadiums.

"They tend to overpromise benefits and they tend to … underprice the costs. Anything that avoids sticking taxpayers with money is certainly a good idea," he said.

How a Halifax stadium would be financed isn't clear. While Savage said a stadium isn't a capital priority for the city, he didn't seem to rule out funding for one either.

"We have to get creative and find something that protects the taxpayer, but if it enhances the quality of life of the community, gives us a stadium where you can do professional football [and] many other things, the city is not on the ball for operating costs, come back and see us, and they've come back," he said.

Savage said one of the proponents is Anthony LeBlanc, the former president and CEO of the NHL's Phoenix Coyotes.

Mayor impressed with proponents

"They're made up of serious people and with experience, and so far they've been very impressive," he said.

Savage says council has discussed the idea of having a CFL team twice in the past month. The first time was to provide a heads-up that there was interest, while the second time included a meeting with the proponents and CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie.

Savage said economic factors such as a growing population and strong economy bode well for having a team here.

Chris Valardo, the vice-president of high performance with Football Nova Scotia, would like there to be a team here.

"I think if we get a stadium, it makes a lot of sense. It rebalances the CFL. They're one team short in the East versus the West," he said.

At present, the league has nine teams and having an additional team would allow for two five-team divisions.

"I think it would be really exciting because now you have a coast-to-coast league. We have a tremendous atmosphere here in Atlantic Canada with … U Sports university football here."

As well, Valardo thinks having a team here would mean good things for minor football.

"They have exposure to professional athletes, professional coaching, just a professional organization. [It] brings a tremendous amount of validity to the sport," said Valardo.

In a statement issued Thursday, the CFL said conversations with the proponents regarding a team in Halifax are "relatively new" and cautioned that a thorough process of due diligence would need to be undertaken.
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  #1054  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2017, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
Halifax mayor impressed by group looking to bring CFL team to city
CBC News Nov 17, 2017

Savage says council has discussed the idea of having a CFL team twice in the past month. The first time was to provide a heads-up that there was interest, while the second time included a meeting with the proponents and CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie.
This makes me think that if Ambrosie, a big time financial guy, brought them to the table, they must have the dough.
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  #1055  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2017, 1:25 AM
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  #1056  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2017, 2:48 AM
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^ Multipurpose also provides a bit of a hedge against a CFL team going under. It would be quite a disaster for HRM if a Halifax CFL team for whatever reason failed to take off and folded 5 years down the road. Then you'd have an expensive stadium to pay off with no tenants renting it... a CPL team plus whatever else would strengthen the case for such a facility.

Incidentally, it'll be interesting to see what kind of venue ultimately gets pitched for Halifax. I'm assuming something like Tim Horton's Field would be a good fit... fairly basic and economical, but still comfortable and big enough to host major events.
It would almost certainly be the 24,000 seat stadium minimum. The CFL would want something smaller than that. The word 'multi-purpose' in conjunction with 'stadium' makes me nervous. It's fine as long as there's no athletic track and the other sports would be soccer and rugby.

It would be nice to have a stadium that both SMU and Dal could use but if things go that route it needs to be built on the Halifax peninsula. Getting to Dartmouth Crossing is a pain in the neck unless you have a car. I know that locale gets tossed around but it's not ideal imo.

My favoured location is that field between the campus of Dal and SMU. It would be awesome there although area residents would go ballistic.
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  #1057  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2017, 2:55 AM
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Doesn't really say anything new in that interview, but I'm glad it sounds like city council is open to negotiate.

2018 seems like it might be too quick to get everything ready for a conditional franchise, though.
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  #1058  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2017, 3:12 AM
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Ambrosie is really impressing me so far he seems like he will be a better commish than even Cohon was. He just gets the job done no BS. Man was Orridge a joke compared to this guy. You can tell with Ambrosie being a former CFL veteran player from Winnipeg where the CFL means so much from the time you grow up that he truly has a deep passion and desire to see the CFL thrive and grow.
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  #1059  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2017, 4:33 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
It would be nice to have a stadium that both SMU and Dal could use but if things go that route it needs to be built on the Halifax peninsula. Getting to Dartmouth Crossing is a pain in the neck unless you have a car. I know that locale gets tossed around but it's not ideal imo.

My favoured location is that field between the campus of Dal and SMU. It would be awesome there although area residents would go ballistic.
I watched the interview with Mayor Savage, and it seems clear to me that the stadium will be nowhere in the central/southern areas of the peninsula, and will very likely be off peninsula. Given the proposal is for residential/commercial components and easy access to the regional highway network, and given that the four locales being considered are not municipally owned, I think they are telegraphing sites like Dartmouth Crossing, Bayers Lake or Bedford Commons.

If a central peninsular location is to be promoted, then city council will have to get much more active on this file. Otherwise, I'm sure you will see this stadium built in a far flung suburban part of the city.
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  #1060  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2017, 5:30 AM
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Ambrosie is really impressing me so far he seems like he will be a better commish than even Cohon was.
Didn't think you could do much better than Cohon but this guy seems to be doing it. The CFL, the only league where the commissioner gets cheered (well maybe not the last guy)
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